• Ahoy and Welcome to the New SSS Forums!!

    As you can see, we have migrated our old forums to new software. All your old posts, threads, attachments, and messages should be here. If you see anything out of place or have any questions, please scroll to the very bottom of the page and click "Contact Us" and leave a note with as much detail as possible.

    You should be able to login with your old credentials. If you have any issues, try resetting your password before clicking the Contact Us link.

    Cheers
    - Bryan

2010 membership/Race Registration

E

Ergo

New member
Greetings,

The registration process is open for 2010 SSS memberships (still the best deal in town) and Three Bridge Fiasco entrees. We are staying with Compete-At as our on-line system. It isn't perfect but (and we looked) is the best alternative. We discovered that there are several alternatives for race registration but none that accommodote annual membership registrations easily.

This is an evolving process and our needs are a bit different each year. We are doing our best to make racing in SSS races as simple and inexpensive as possible. We hope for perfection but are pleased with progress. If anyone can offer constructive advice and assistance please get in touch. As they said in an old Western, "Don't shoot the piano player, he's doing the best he can".

Bill Merrick
2010 Commodorte
 
Membership Renewal at Different Levels

Hey there Commodorte,

We've encountered a problem when renewing membership, this being the first year with Compete-At where SSS members can renew from one year to the next. If you want to change from membership at the $160 level to the $135 level, there is no option to change.

Some members in '09 used the SSS as their affiliated sailing organization when registering for YRA races and paid $160. If they want to change this year, there is no way currently to select this option and pay online.

I am sending a check for payment and I'm renewing at the same membership level so this problem did not happen to me. If you do want to change membership levels, you can send a check for the correct amount to avoid paying through the online system but you will have to check the renew at the same level option in the online system.

The Compete At people are aware of the problem. How it will be fixed has yet to be determined. More to follow.

Matt
 
To Whom it may concern or to who can answer the question.
I signed up for the three bridge today and noticed that there are so far two boats in my div. I sail an Ericson 35 and the other boat in my div, (single handed #3) is a Wylie Cat 30. Are Wylie Cat 30s still put in there own div.? Is it just a matter of getting more of them signed up at which time they will get there own div.
I know that there have been bad feelings between the Wylie 30s and the rest of us but there is no question in my mind that those boat have a real advantage over sloops in short handed racing. We all race against each other overall but I like it better when boats that are so different are in different div.

Thanks

Phil
 
Wyliecat 30's are really challenging to beat out on the race course! My wife and I raced in the YRA party circuit shorthanded division last year and squeezed out a 3rd place. First place went to a Wyliecat, second place went to another Wyliecat, our humble Newport 30 was third, and fourth went to another Wyliecat...at least we got one of them ;-)
 
In years past, the SH boats have been lumped together into PHRF rating bands (except for Sportboats). There haven't been enough SH boats in each division to separate out the OD classes like we do with DH'ers. (Edit - Except the WylieCats.)

I did 5 sail changes (SH) during last year's 3BF and you can guess how many the WC's did. I have no axe to grind but it's clearly "the horse for the course" for what we do.
____________________________

Since I'm here, two things: 1) The 2009 results (by race) have disappeared and need to be added to the Archives, and 2) I can't find page 2 of the 2010 3BF SI's which would show the start times by PHRF. Everyone will need those.
 
Last edited:
Good job to you and the Mrs., Sparky. They are very hard to beat when shorthanded. I can really only remember one time. In the 2003 Double Handed Farallones we corrected out but Silky still beat us across the line. And that was double handed!

BobJ, I hear you. That’s exactly why they have an advantage over us short handed. Fully crewed I don’t think they have that advantage. But single handed most definitely.

It is what it is. Thanks for the clarification. The rest of us in div. 3 SH will just have to try harder.

Thanks

Phil
 
Shorthanded YRA Party Circuit

Sparky said:
Wyliecat 30's are really challenging to beat out on the race course! My wife and I raced in the YRA party circuit shorthanded division last year and squeezed out a 3rd place. First place went to a Wyliecat, second place went to another Wyliecat, our humble Newport 30 was third, and fourth went to another Wyliecat...at least we got one of them ;-)
Click to expand...

Ruben, Congratulations on the 3rd place for the season, but it should be pointed out that you and Robbie only sailed in 4 of the 6 races. And you took a second to Vallejo, not bad in my book. Had you done all the races you might have done even better for the season. :)

It's easy to make generalizations about one type boat or another. Let's make sure we get the facts straight.

Tom
Dazzler (WC30)
 
Wyliecat 30s are ALWAYS in their own class

Phil, that's an error. Wyliecat 30s have their own class in all races (except LongPac/TransPac), regardless of how many enter.

I don't envy the new race chairs combing through Compete-At to make sure that everyone picked the right class.

Max
 
YRA party circuit

Dazzler said:
Ruben, Congratulations on the 3rd place for the season, but it should be pointed out that you and Robbie only sailed in 4 of the 6 races. And you took a second to Vallejo, not bad in my book. Had you done all the races you might have done even better for the season. :)

It's easy to make generalizations about one type boat or another. Let's make sure we get the facts straight.

Tom
Dazzler (WC30)
Click to expand...

Tom, you're right. Unfortunately, we were only able to sail in 4 of 6 races due to a boat mishap and spending time in a boat yard... Regarding the Vallejo race, if I hadn't fouled up a spinnaker takedown at the turn into Mare Island Straits, we may have corrected out better. We enjoy racing against you guys and look forward to another fun year in the Party Circuit.:)
 
Last edited:
Phil,

Now that we've cleared up the Wyliecat inequity, we really should take a serious look at that overly tall stick you have. Looking forward to seeing another Ericson 35 at the TB.

Bill
 
Three Bridge Entry - how to change shirt sizes?

OK, so I've entered Three Bridge Fiasco through compete-at's site. If I want to change the crew's t-shirt size, how do I go about doing that? I have found no way to get back to the form that was filled out regarding that piece of information. In fact, it seems that I cannot locate the entry form at all, including -

how can I change divisions if I screwed up, or switch from singel to double or the reverse?
how to alter shirt sizes?

- rob/beetle
 
Wylie Cats are like Recumbent Bicycles

They don't suffer from the drag of that forward sail.

I have old trophies from assorted races I would happily donate to add a class so the WC's can sail to glory amongst similar DNA.

Brian
 
tiger beetle said:
OK, so I've entered Three Bridge Fiasco through compete-at's site. If I want to change the crew's t-shirt size, how do I go about doing that? I have found no way to get back to the form that was filled out regarding that piece of information. In fact, it seems that I cannot locate the entry form at all, including -

how can I change divisions if I screwed up, or switch from singel to double or the reverse?
how to alter shirt sizes?

- rob/beetle
Click to expand...

We had to change a few things so you can see (supposedly) what choices you made for Catagory and T shirt sizes. I regret this blew away your previous T shirt choices. Please enter them again.

Hopefully, this should stabilize things in our software, for a day or so.

One a software related note, there may be a browser related bug in printing the entrants list with Firefox. Safari apparently prints the whole screen, while Firefox may not. This is under investigation.

John Foster
SSS Race Info Wonk
Nonsuch 22 Blueberry

If you know what you are doing, you can ignore the instructions below

Otherwise, please pay attention to these instructions. (grin)

If you log in and choose the Three Bridge Fiasco 2010 event, you might end up on a page that shows the choices.

On the right hand you should see something like:

Below is information for participant: John Foster
except it should be your name, not mine.

Below that you should see something like

Entry Summary for John Foster
except it should be your name, not mine.

Below that you should see something like

Categories: SInglehanded 4 PHRF > 155 No Sportboats or Multihulls

except it should show your category, not mine, If you are happy with what you see, leave it alone. If you want to change your category, click on the little pencil symbol. This opens up your choices on a page like

Divisions for John Foster
except it should show your category, not mine, make the change you want or leave it alone.

Scroll to the bottom, and if you have made a change, click the Save Changes button.

Click the Go Back arrow on your browser

This takes you back to your page that looks like

Below is information for participant: John Foster
except it should be your name, not mine.

On that page you should see something like

Requirement Summary for John Foster
except it should be your name, not mine.

Scroll to the bottom choice

Skipper and Crew Shirt Sizes

If you want to re-do or change your T-shirt sizes (the reason you got this email), click on the little pencil symbol. This opens up your choices on a page like

Skipper and Crew Shirt Sizes
Required items are shown in GREEN.
If you are saving this form with a “Complete” status, you must complete all required fields in green.

Pick shirt sizes in both places. If SH, just pick No Crew as the size choice. You can make a change later.

Making these choices does not mean you will actually get a shirt at all, let alone the size you selected, though it does make that a more likely outcome (grin)

SAVE CHANGES button must be clicked before you exit this page

or your choices wil not be recorded.
 
Last edited:
Wyliecat Discussion

I really can't let the Wyliecat discussion pass without contributing. I was SSS Commodore when the "Wyliecat 30" division was set up. There was grumbling about Wylies and the Wylie skippers approached the SSS Board with a request to lower their PHRF for SSS races. At the time the base rating for a Wyliecat 30 was 141. We refused, citing the slippery slope of race committees altering NC PHRF numbers and instead decided to set up a "Wyliecat 30" division. That's the way it's been every since.
Then the prevailing "anti Wylie" sentiment wasn't "easier sailing" - it was their rating. Over the intervening years the NC PHRF Committee progressively lowered the Base Wyliecat 30 PHRF to 129 (a reduction of 12 seconds per mile). The last 3-second reduction occurred about the same moment I purchased my Wylie several years ago.
One question that hasn't come up in the Wyliecat discussion so far is why the SSS allows other cat-rigged boats to sail in PHRF Divisions? If one cat-rigged boat is "easier to sail" then aren't all of them?
Someone in a previous post asked if Wylie sailors are better than others. That's a difficult judgment, but if you're old enough you'd remember guys like Steve Wonner, Steve Seals, and John Skinner tearing things up in their Cal 20s and Santana 22s. Andy Hall doesn't do too badly in his Gemini twin. I don't want to brag, but I think I did pretty well in all three conventional boats I've sailed previous to buying the Wyliecat. And there are others.
A similar "unfair" argument came up when asymmetrical chutes began to proliferate - especially J-105s and similar J-boats. I fondly remember being passed by asymmetrical boats being jibed from the cockpit while I struggled on the foredeck (especially in Farallones races) to jibe the pole on both my Newport 30 and Santana 22 - several trips between the foredeck and cockpit as I remember. It's the main reason I spent years sailing the Newport in the SSS non-spinnaker division.
There was discussion of banning asymmetrics to their own division, but that didn't happen. Even an Alerion 28 (and other similar boats) with its self-tending jib could be seen as "easier" to sail. Roller furling headsails vs hank on (yes, there was a time when most boats had hank on headsails)? And the list goes on.
I purchased my Wyliecat 30 with full knowledge of all the background; one owner even counseled me with the advice that "They really hate us." I went with the Wylie partly because I know and respect the other Wylie skippers and enjoy sailing against them. I also went with the Wylie because I'm not a "yacht club" guy with 6 gorillas for friends and it allows me to compete in YRA and other PHRF racing with a small crew - just as my Santana 22 did. And my list of reasons also goes on.
Pat Broderick - "NANCY" Wyliecat #28890
 
Pat,

I want it to be clear that I don’t hate anyone because of the boat they sail. My point is that Wylie cat 30’s are easier to sail that my Ericson 35. If anyone disagrees with that they are only kidding themselves.
Your point that a lot of the people that sail Wylie 30’s are good sailors is noted and agreed with. So now you have people who we know are good sailors put in boats we know are easier to sail short handed. As you say,
“I went with the Wylie partly because I know and respect the other Wylie skippers and enjoy sailing against them. I also went with the Wylie because I'm not a "yacht club" guy with 6 gorillas for friends and it allows me to compete in YRA and other PHRF racing with a small crew - just as my Santana 22 did. “

When we race SSS none of us has the six gorillas. So by your own admission Wylie Cats are easier to sail.

“I struggled on the foredeck (especially in Farallones races) to jibe the pole on both my Newport 30 and Santana 22 - several trips between the foredeck and cockpit as I remember. It's the main reason I spent years sailing the Newport in the SSS non-spinnaker division.”

So if you sail a boat whose rating assume you will use a spinnaker but you don’t for what ever reason then how can you expect to do well in the standings? You really can’t. So a Wylie Cat 30 can be sailed to it’s full potential from the cockpit, never having to leave the cockpit or the tiller, and a conventional boat cannot.

So, in a Single Handed Farallones races, I have to leave the cockpit while rounding the Islands or just after to set up the spinnaker. I have to do this so I have a chance to catch the Wylie cat 30’s that sailed past me on the way out. Once the spinnaker is up I have to drop my hank on jib (or not). At or near the Golden Gate I have to leave the cockpit again to jibe the spinnaker while the Wylie Cat 30 just jibes without leaving the cockpit. I know this because I can see then because they are still ahead of me.

If I have Wylie Cat 30’s in my division I stand very little chance of ever doing well in my division. I don’t think this is because the people sailing them are better sailors than I am. I think it’s because Wylie Cat 30’s have a real advantage in short handed and especially in single-handed racing. I don’t have any thing against Wylie Cat 30’s or the people that sail them. I think they are great boats by a great designer and I wouldn’t mind owning one myself. But to put them in the same division as my boat that was (in the early 70’s) raced with a crew of seven does not seem right. They are very different boats and should be grouped differently. I think you and your board did the right thing by putting them in there own division and I’m glad to see it still is that way. But even if it weren’t that way anymore I would have accepted it. “It is what it is” I am not one to wine and moan. I have never complained about anyone’s rating, the type of boat and most of all I never complained about not getting a trophy at an awards ceremony, which is more than I can say for at least one Wylie Cat 30 sailor.

Phil MacFarlane
1971Ericson 35 MkII Sail a Vie
11,500 LBS
LWL 25
One main, four head sails, four spinnakers and lots of lines.
 
You make a great point, Phil...

" So a Wylie Cat 30 can be sailed to it’s full potential from the cockpit, never having to leave the cockpit or the tiller, and a conventional boat cannot. "

True statement, and applies to other equipment (e.g., asymmetric spinnaker) and designs (other catrigged boats or multihulls or sportboats), as well. If you can sail your boat to its full potential easier than someone else can in his conventional boat, you are likelier to do well in short handed events.

That being said, do you want to penalize all boats with roller furler headsails? I expect you would say, "Probably not since the rolling furler jib is likely a little slower and the roller furler is only used once or twice in a race, so it is probably a wash." Note the use of probability (likely, probably...).

Many other things besides skipper skill go into the mix to result in a "winner". For example, would you argue that an asymmetric spin is faster on a DDW course than a symmetric? Probably not since it would depend on windspeed and number of gybes... Similarly a catrigged boat won't likely go faster on a DDW course without a spinnaker in the medium breezes...A very light boat will not go to weather in chop.

The point being that luck is a contributor to one's success in any race. While a design might be favored in some conditions, other designs are likelier to be favored in other conditions. That's what makes amateur sports fun, for me anyway.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top