Greg Larsen
New member
What autopilot are people using? I have an olson 30 and need to install some kind of autopilot and windvane. So I'm looking to find out what others are using.
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autopilot
- Thread starter Greg Larsen
- Start date
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Hi Greg and welcome to the SSS board.
You have a great boat there - the Olson 30's have a long and successful history in shorthanded racing. For recent offshore successes, look for "Polar Bear" in our 2008 SH TransPac pages and "Foolish Muse" in the 2006 SH TransPac pages.
Regarding autopilots, before we rattle off a bunch of brands and part numbers could you tell us what do you plan to do? One of the inexpensive tiller pilots could be adequate for singlehanding in the Bay and perhaps short coastal races. You posted in the SH TransPac sub-board - if you're thinking in that direction it will change the answers quite a bit.
I'm not sure whether a windvane makes sense on an Olson 30. The boat is quite light and unless you're crossing oceans, an electric pilot could serve you well and not add all the weight and complexity at the stern.
Anyway, how do you plan to use the boat?
You have a great boat there - the Olson 30's have a long and successful history in shorthanded racing. For recent offshore successes, look for "Polar Bear" in our 2008 SH TransPac pages and "Foolish Muse" in the 2006 SH TransPac pages.
Regarding autopilots, before we rattle off a bunch of brands and part numbers could you tell us what do you plan to do? One of the inexpensive tiller pilots could be adequate for singlehanding in the Bay and perhaps short coastal races. You posted in the SH TransPac sub-board - if you're thinking in that direction it will change the answers quite a bit.
I'm not sure whether a windvane makes sense on an Olson 30. The boat is quite light and unless you're crossing oceans, an electric pilot could serve you well and not add all the weight and complexity at the stern.
Anyway, how do you plan to use the boat?
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Greg Larsen
New member
Autopilot
I'm planning on doing the Pacific Cup, in the doublehanded fleet. But I'm also toying with doing the SHTP.
I'm planning on doing the Pacific Cup, in the doublehanded fleet. But I'm also toying with doing the SHTP.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Great!
In that case you will need a pilot that is adequate to drive the boat under spinnaker in ocean conditions. Most will agree that a self-contained cockpit mounter tiller pilot is not up to that task, although I do carry one as a backup.
I'm assuming that like many of us with smaller boats, your rudder tube is glassed in from the bottom (hull) up to the underside of the deck, with no opening to attach an autopilot quadrant/arm or rudder position reference. What most do in that case is to purchase a pilot with belowdecks computer and fluxgate compass, but use a cockpit-mounted drive unit ("ram"). For not much extra money you can get a computer with "gyro" circuitry that will control the boat much better in following seas - like we have in the Hawaii races.
While some of us pine after the French-made NKE Gyropilots like the pros use, budget constraints have limited most of us to the Raymarine units. The "weak link" is Ray's cockpit-mounted ram, so we make light covers to keep them dry and carry at least one spare. Their fluxgate compasses also have a record of failing over time. So far I've heard good things about the newest Raymarine computers, and I've had no trouble with my older 6001+ CPU. It has worked fine since 2005, including two SH TransPacs (and one return trip).
So that's a start - I'll let others chip in with comments.
Where is your boat? Mine is in Alameda and I would be happy to show you my autopilot setup.
In that case you will need a pilot that is adequate to drive the boat under spinnaker in ocean conditions. Most will agree that a self-contained cockpit mounter tiller pilot is not up to that task, although I do carry one as a backup.
I'm assuming that like many of us with smaller boats, your rudder tube is glassed in from the bottom (hull) up to the underside of the deck, with no opening to attach an autopilot quadrant/arm or rudder position reference. What most do in that case is to purchase a pilot with belowdecks computer and fluxgate compass, but use a cockpit-mounted drive unit ("ram"). For not much extra money you can get a computer with "gyro" circuitry that will control the boat much better in following seas - like we have in the Hawaii races.
While some of us pine after the French-made NKE Gyropilots like the pros use, budget constraints have limited most of us to the Raymarine units. The "weak link" is Ray's cockpit-mounted ram, so we make light covers to keep them dry and carry at least one spare. Their fluxgate compasses also have a record of failing over time. So far I've heard good things about the newest Raymarine computers, and I've had no trouble with my older 6001+ CPU. It has worked fine since 2005, including two SH TransPacs (and one return trip).
So that's a start - I'll let others chip in with comments.
Where is your boat? Mine is in Alameda and I would be happy to show you my autopilot setup.
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Greg Larsen
New member
Autopilot
I'm considering the SmartPilot X-5 Tiller GP. My boat is in Tacoma Washington. Any thoughts?
I'm considering the SmartPilot X-5 Tiller GP. My boat is in Tacoma Washington. Any thoughts?
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
FWIW, that's the current version of what Eric Thomas used on his Olson 30 in last year's SH TransPac.
I think you could get by with the non-GP version on your boat, which would cut the cost in half. Use the money you save to buy an extra drive unit.
Have the tiller pin welded to a SS plate and attach that to the tiller with 3-4 long screws - anything short of that will lead to a loose or broken pin. Tie the base (cord) end of the drive unit down to the socket (otherwise it will ride up and out of the socket), and make a light Sunbrella tube to keep it dry.
You'll be good to go.
I think you could get by with the non-GP version on your boat, which would cut the cost in half. Use the money you save to buy an extra drive unit.
Have the tiller pin welded to a SS plate and attach that to the tiller with 3-4 long screws - anything short of that will lead to a loose or broken pin. Tie the base (cord) end of the drive unit down to the socket (otherwise it will ride up and out of the socket), and make a light Sunbrella tube to keep it dry.
You'll be good to go.
Greg Larsen
New member
Autopilot
The reason I was thinking of getting the GP was because I also have a C&C 39 that is already set up for a tillermaster autopilot. The autopilot is set up on a wheel. So I was hoping to use this autopilot on my C&C 39 someday, when I go world cruising. But then again maybe this is a mistake, since the distance the wheel can spin is only 10 -15 degrees so it can't make a big steering adjustments in a hurry.
Do you know if I can buy a GP for a primary and a non-GP for a backup? Are they compatable?
The reason I was thinking of getting the GP was because I also have a C&C 39 that is already set up for a tillermaster autopilot. The autopilot is set up on a wheel. So I was hoping to use this autopilot on my C&C 39 someday, when I go world cruising. But then again maybe this is a mistake, since the distance the wheel can spin is only 10 -15 degrees so it can't make a big steering adjustments in a hurry.
Do you know if I can buy a GP for a primary and a non-GP for a backup? Are they compatable?
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
I believe the only difference between Ray's GP models and their non-GP models is in the drive unit, but I'm not positive. I would call your local Raymarine dealer or their product support number to confirm.
The cockpit-mounted drive units I've described are for tiller-steered boats. I really doubt you could fit one to a wheel-steered boat - Raymarine has belt-driven wheel pilots for that purpose. Also, I think a C&C 39 weighs more than these drive units are rated for.
An Olson 30 and a C&C 39 are apples and oranges when it comes to autopilots.
The cockpit-mounted drive units I've described are for tiller-steered boats. I really doubt you could fit one to a wheel-steered boat - Raymarine has belt-driven wheel pilots for that purpose. Also, I think a C&C 39 weighs more than these drive units are rated for.
An Olson 30 and a C&C 39 are apples and oranges when it comes to autopilots.
cafemontaigne
Olson 30 "Idefix"
Greg,
I have the S-1 on my boat, which I think only differs from the X-5 by the software. It has a gyro. It seems adequate to drive the boat, although I probably need to fine-tune the gains.
I'm planning on installing an X-5 and keeping the S-1 in for backup, and getting a third drive unit I can plug into either. A light-colored sunbrella cover sounds like a good idea too. I'm going to forego the windvane.
I think the GP is overkill for the Olson. The S-1 will easily drive the rudder up to fairly heavy loads. Mind you I have only used it a handful of times in fairly benign conditions. One thing to be careful with is the bracket installation on the tiller. Mine was poorly installed and I ended up breaking the tiller off a couple weeks ago...
I agree with Bob that trying to fit an AP to both boats sounds like a bad idea. You might be able to move the computer, controller and compass over, but I think you will have to get a separate drive unit for the C&C.
Adrian
I have the S-1 on my boat, which I think only differs from the X-5 by the software. It has a gyro. It seems adequate to drive the boat, although I probably need to fine-tune the gains.
I'm planning on installing an X-5 and keeping the S-1 in for backup, and getting a third drive unit I can plug into either. A light-colored sunbrella cover sounds like a good idea too. I'm going to forego the windvane.
I think the GP is overkill for the Olson. The S-1 will easily drive the rudder up to fairly heavy loads. Mind you I have only used it a handful of times in fairly benign conditions. One thing to be careful with is the bracket installation on the tiller. Mine was poorly installed and I ended up breaking the tiller off a couple weeks ago...
I agree with Bob that trying to fit an AP to both boats sounds like a bad idea. You might be able to move the computer, controller and compass over, but I think you will have to get a separate drive unit for the C&C.
Adrian
Greg Larsen
New member
Autopilot
What you guys don't understand about the C&C 39 is I already have a tiller style autopilot mounted to my wheel. I have an old Tillermaster. In fact I have two one I bought at a swap meet for $10. The tiller autopilot mounted to my wheel works very well, even in a blow and waves. The way it works is there is bracket that holds a swivel eye that the tiller autopilot arm mounts to. The bracket is mounted between the center of the wheel and the outer round edge of the wheel. When the autopilot pushes out the wheel turns clockwise making the boat turn to starboard, and when it comes back the wheel rotates counterclockwise and the boat turns to port. I'm guessing the things that break autopilots is overloading it with loads from the rudder. The good thing about wheel steering is it doesn't take a lot of force to turn the wheel. So I think a under rated tiller autopilot can run a wheel on a bigger boat.
What you guys don't understand about the C&C 39 is I already have a tiller style autopilot mounted to my wheel. I have an old Tillermaster. In fact I have two one I bought at a swap meet for $10. The tiller autopilot mounted to my wheel works very well, even in a blow and waves. The way it works is there is bracket that holds a swivel eye that the tiller autopilot arm mounts to. The bracket is mounted between the center of the wheel and the outer round edge of the wheel. When the autopilot pushes out the wheel turns clockwise making the boat turn to starboard, and when it comes back the wheel rotates counterclockwise and the boat turns to port. I'm guessing the things that break autopilots is overloading it with loads from the rudder. The good thing about wheel steering is it doesn't take a lot of force to turn the wheel. So I think a under rated tiller autopilot can run a wheel on a bigger boat.
Greg,
I have an Express 27 and I'm using a Raymarine S1 (g) computer and a ST4000 ram (with a spare). My initial setup was an S1 computer but it couldn't handle following seas and nor my going forward to set the spinny. At Bob J.'s suggestion I got a new computer (g) with the gyro and the difference is great. I'm keeping my S1 computer as a back-up. I mounted my rudder reference unit on my rear deck next to the tiller and had Metal Magic make a SS cover to protect it. Your Olson is a bit heavier but I don't think it needs a GP ram. I keep TAZ!! at the Alameda Marina if you'd like to see my setup.
George
I have an Express 27 and I'm using a Raymarine S1 (g) computer and a ST4000 ram (with a spare). My initial setup was an S1 computer but it couldn't handle following seas and nor my going forward to set the spinny. At Bob J.'s suggestion I got a new computer (g) with the gyro and the difference is great. I'm keeping my S1 computer as a back-up. I mounted my rudder reference unit on my rear deck next to the tiller and had Metal Magic make a SS cover to protect it. Your Olson is a bit heavier but I don't think it needs a GP ram. I keep TAZ!! at the Alameda Marina if you'd like to see my setup.
George
Warriors Wish
New member
Auto Pilot
I have done 2 Bermuda 1-2's and the 2008 solo Transpac. I originally started out a NKE system and the GP4000 drive. The drive failed within 500 miles. I returned it to Raymarine and they furnished a new one free of charge. However I also contact Raymarine UK to discuss the design and why it leaked (Raymarine US has no clue about these units). I have been in the seal business 30+ years. There are a couple of reasons why they leak and Raymarine does not seem interested in addressing them. The minis typically take 4 drive units on a Bermuda 1-2 however most have gone hydraulic.
In the 2009 Bermuda 1-2 this year another new unit failed on a 30' boat.
In my mind these units are not designed for offshore use.
Prior to the 2008 Transpac I bit the bullet and cut my rudder tube and installed a below deck hydrualic unit. Worth every dollar spent and I now look at it as a safety fearture. I will try and get a parts list together for a hydraulic unit, mine was built out of parts from several different units and works GREAT. The expense is the computer.
I have done 2 Bermuda 1-2's and the 2008 solo Transpac. I originally started out a NKE system and the GP4000 drive. The drive failed within 500 miles. I returned it to Raymarine and they furnished a new one free of charge. However I also contact Raymarine UK to discuss the design and why it leaked (Raymarine US has no clue about these units). I have been in the seal business 30+ years. There are a couple of reasons why they leak and Raymarine does not seem interested in addressing them. The minis typically take 4 drive units on a Bermuda 1-2 however most have gone hydraulic.
In the 2009 Bermuda 1-2 this year another new unit failed on a 30' boat.
In my mind these units are not designed for offshore use.
Prior to the 2008 Transpac I bit the bullet and cut my rudder tube and installed a below deck hydrualic unit. Worth every dollar spent and I now look at it as a safety fearture. I will try and get a parts list together for a hydraulic unit, mine was built out of parts from several different units and works GREAT. The expense is the computer.
Raymarine GP Tiller Pilot
I have one of these that I have not installed yet. Be careful. Some of the models require a rudder feedback sensor and others solve oversteering issues with software. The rudder sensor may not be feasible to mount on every boat. It sounded like one should not use a model that needs the sensor without it and then you have to opt for a more expensive unit.
I have a Simrad tiller pilot hooked to my Aries. It has worked great. I have warn you though that I have had major issues with Simrad customer service on a different product.
Cheers,
-jak
I have one of these that I have not installed yet. Be careful. Some of the models require a rudder feedback sensor and others solve oversteering issues with software. The rudder sensor may not be feasible to mount on every boat. It sounded like one should not use a model that needs the sensor without it and then you have to opt for a more expensive unit.
I have a Simrad tiller pilot hooked to my Aries. It has worked great. I have warn you though that I have had major issues with Simrad customer service on a different product.
Cheers,
-jak
Culebra
New member
Smart Pilot X-5
I installed the Raymarine Smart Pilot X-5 earlier this year and... wow, amazing responsiveness... following seas are no problem anymore. Yes, I made a sunbrella cover to keep saltwater out of its innards, and after each hard day of work I give it praise and adoration (a healthy psyche should prolong its life, right?). After using two other non-gyro units I'm a believer in gyro. I got the heavy duty ram because my boat's displacement (11,000#) is near the top of the range for the weaker ram. I left the old Autohelm 2000 installation intact (as a backup). Plus, if I simply refit the plug style on the old ram's power cord, so Raymarine tells me, it should work just fine with the new X-5 system (I haven't tried this yet, but if it works, then it will add another level of redundancy). Raymarine will also rebuild a used ram, provided it is one they still support, and that should extend its life beyond the Hawaii adventure.
For peace of mind, I'm also planning to add a Monitor vane to the boat. I don't like the idea of being solely dependent on electrics.
I installed the Raymarine Smart Pilot X-5 earlier this year and... wow, amazing responsiveness... following seas are no problem anymore. Yes, I made a sunbrella cover to keep saltwater out of its innards, and after each hard day of work I give it praise and adoration (a healthy psyche should prolong its life, right?). After using two other non-gyro units I'm a believer in gyro. I got the heavy duty ram because my boat's displacement (11,000#) is near the top of the range for the weaker ram. I left the old Autohelm 2000 installation intact (as a backup). Plus, if I simply refit the plug style on the old ram's power cord, so Raymarine tells me, it should work just fine with the new X-5 system (I haven't tried this yet, but if it works, then it will add another level of redundancy). Raymarine will also rebuild a used ram, provided it is one they still support, and that should extend its life beyond the Hawaii adventure.
For peace of mind, I'm also planning to add a Monitor vane to the boat. I don't like the idea of being solely dependent on electrics.
solosailor
New member
Rudder sensor
The replacement for the ST4000 is the new X5 with has a gyro and no longer requires the rudder reference unit.
I sailed the SHTP with a ST4000+ without a rudder reference unit and it worked fine, however the boat is very well behaved tracking wise.
The replacement for the ST4000 is the new X5 with has a gyro and no longer requires the rudder reference unit.