Beach Cat in Singlehanded Transpac?

[ronnie simpson]

To any SSS members that have the power to accept or deny an SHTP race entry, I have a question for you.

If someone (me) were to put together an offshore-capable beach catamaran that was 20-feet or longer in length, and then completed a qualifier and make the boat meet all race rules, would the RC accept their entry?

Beach cats have crossed the Atlantic and the Pacific multiple times singlehanded, and Yvan Bourgnon from Switzerland has almost circumnavigated a beach catamaran.

I'm not super serious about this endeavor yet, but am just curious if it would be allowed. It has been on my mind for quite some time.

Thank you,

Ronnie Simpson

edit: per reviewing the rules, this rule would likely pose a problem. if a multi-time race veteran showed up with an otherwise sea-worthy vessel that didn't meet this rule, would it be possible to get an exception or waiver?

5 ADDITIONAL MULTIHULL REQUIREMENTS
5.01 Multihull yachts shall meet the requirements of RRC Rule 3 and 4 as well as the following: [a] A combined length and beam of at least 40 feet, with a minimum beam of one half the length.

 

[CRC1965]

Ronnie:
Damn you dream big!
Best of luck!
Chris

 

[Philpott]

Ronnie, if you are discouraged from sailing your beach cat, maybe you'd like to try with this pretty blue lido sailboat in my backyard? You could build a hard dodger, add lifelines, borrow my plb and I'll pay for the decal with any name you like. Perhaps xs?

 

[brianb]

Hi Ronnie, We have one Proa that has asked a similar question. You likely have seen the design concept, a boat that is easily shipped and believed to be seaworthy. The only way we could even consider such an effort is if the design was deemed seaworthy by a noted naval architect who had given the boat complete scrutiny. When you say beach cat I think of the various Hobie's and Nacra's I raced for 10 years. I took them as far as 20 miles offshore (outside Monterrey) Bay and would not want to attempt crossing gale alley in one. The one time I was caught in a very nasty squall I intentionally flipped the boat and sat on the upside down hulls watching the November rain squall pass. Easier than reefing on that day. Brian

 

[SeanRhone]

While I wouldn't want to do this race in a Hobie 18, I have been thinking about Corsair F-27. Anyone here have experience with these?

 

[Harrier]

Pretty sure one did the SHTP in the '90s. Got to Hanalei in good shape.

 

[brianb]

Cats to Hawaii

While I wouldn't want to do this race in a Hobie 18, I have been thinking about Corsair F-27. Anyone here have experience with these?

Contact Dave Morris or Larry Olsen, both are members here. I will PM you with their address. Also, you should contact the BAMA group, Bay Area Multi Hull Assoc. They have a lot of boats on the water that plow the waters of the Gulf of the Farallones. If you want more contact data I have an acquitance in Florida who has a small cruising cat, he is a professional rigger, and has done a lot of sailing in Florida and points south.

Thanks,

Brian

 

[BobJ]

HARRIER is correct - Bob Dixon raced a F-27 to Hanalei in 1990. Gary Helms raced a F-31 over in 1996. I'd want a release mechanism (fuse) on the sheets, especially once I reached squall alley.

Ronnie is the one guy I know who could probably make it to Hanalei on a beach cat. However if it was up to me I wouldn't bend the rules that much to allow it, for two principal reasons: 1) the next guy who wanted to do the race on a beach cat wouldn't have Ronnie's skills and 2) since the likely rescuer will be another competitor, you've screwed up someone else's race if you have to be rescued. Since it takes so much for most of us to do a SHTP, that's an unreasonable burden to place on the fleet.

 

[brianb]

About a decade ago two guys tried to sail a true beach cat to Hawaii from So. Cal. From memory - they were warned by USCG not to go. They took off anyway, and as I recall they had taken some precautions to make the Cat liveable, providing some kind of dodger to hide from the elements. The remnants of the boat were found about 300 miles west of Catalina. I don't have specifics on the incident but there were no survivors.

Having raced quite a few beach cats, the usual production models, I would be terrified of the beams or corner castings breaking with the 1000's of miles of wave action. That said, an F27 is a different animal.

 

[hodgmo]

As Brian points out, structural integrity is a real concern for any boat wanting to cross an ocean that wasn’t designed to do so. My experience sailing beach cats leads me to think during a weeks long sail, capsizing is inevitable. These alone aren’t necessarily show stoppers (though the capsize potential would be for me!) as it is reasonable that a young, strong competent skipper could adequately prepare for these and other small boat limitations. And as Ronnie pointed out beach cats have successfully crossed oceans, here’s a 20 footer one that double-handed across the Atlantic:

http://yachtpals.com/sailing-catamaran-7024

And here’s a guy who single-handed across three oceans before running aground and wrecking his small cat, aborting (or stalling?) his circumnavigation goal:

http://www.redbull.com/us/en/advent...-sailing-around-the-world-solo-in-a-catamaran

So a beach cat SHTP isn’t unthinkable. But I think BobJ nailed it with his very real concern about the above-average potential burden to other sailors. Perhaps it would be fair that, if by some miracle the RC deemed the entrant feasible, that other contestants also buy into the above-average risks posed by a beach cat transpac entry.

 

[pogen]

I'm not sure how easy it would be to right a turtled beach cat with sails up, in a seaway, especially including the weight of the required water, food, comms gear, etc. I'm sure it's physically possible, but would likely require a number of specific exemptions from the rules. A trimaran like an F-27, with an enclosed hull is of course an entirely different matter.

 

[SeanRhone]

Never thought about trying to right an F-27, thought it wouldn't be possible without a lot of help. I also thought a F-27 would be a heck of a lot harder to turn over and therefore be safer than a monohull.

 

[Harrier]

Your last thought flies in the face of years of sailing history. Most monohulls that turned turtle came back with the help of wave action...unless they had turned turtle due to loss of their keel. A few of the racing specialized exceptionally wide monohulls like to stay upside down once flipped...but they are harder to flip in the first place since their width gives them a lot of form stability and their heavy keel fights against overturning. Big multihulls have often flipped...they just don't return to an upright position on their own. I can see no way for a singlehander to right an F-27 or F-31 that had flipped. One reason that special sheet release systems are required of multihulls. Also why removable hull sections ("doors") are specified to enable escape from a flipped cat or tri. But, of course, up to the "point of no return" they are more stable that a monohull. Different strokes for.....
In another vein, multihulls in the SHTP rarely have anyone to compete against, since there is really no fair handicap system, in my opinion, which would allow true competition between the types. I'm sure there are those who would argue that point, however.

 

[ronnie simpson]

Brian, I don't know if I am familiar with the design that you are referring to.

Ryan Finn however is attempting to put together a Bieker-designed Proa to establish a solo non-stop NY to SF record, going east to west around Cape Horn in a proa. Ryan is one of my friends and a great inspiration to me. http://2oceans1rock.org/

Thanks for your story about sailing a beach cat in hairy conditions. I just did a delivery from Hawaii to SF and constantly evaluated the sea state asking myself "would I want to be out here in a beach cat?". The answer was usually no, but for some reason i'm still drawn to the endeavor. This is the magic of SHTP - a bug light for weirdos.

 

[ronnie simpson]

Thanks for all of the other contributions to this thread, it's turned into an interesting read.

thanks for your kind words Bob and I understand where you're coming from on bending rules, but I like the idea that Brian expressed of allowing exceptions if they're deemed to be seaworthy by a naval architect. Before setting out on an endeavor such as a beach cat SHTP, it would be probably be very wise to sit down with a respected naval architect and come up with a design and build strategy. that would be a neat process.

Spot on as usual General. Flipping and not being able to right the boat are the single greatest concern of any ocean racing multihull and that will be an area of intense focus if i were to pursue this endeavor.

multihulls are just so much faster than monohulls though and i'm beginning to really see that multihull light and become very drawn to them. approaching the SHTP from a poor man's perspective as I generally do, the beach cat is compelling to me because i think it may offer a realistic chance to be first to Hanalei (on a typical year with non Open 50's) in both the smallest and cheapest boat in fleet. i wonder, could a 21-foot Hobie purchased for a few thousand dollars and widened and re-inforced with a beefed-up rig and reefable main, reefable jib and a screecher and kite get to Hanalei first?

auto sheet release systems could be neat to have, but not sure how feasible this would be. perhaps Brian B could help engineer one maxi-trimaran Lending Club 2 had an extremely cool set up called "Up Side Up", as in keeping the up side up! The system had about 4-5 knobs that would allow the user to plug in maximum angles of heel, acceleration, etc. When any user-input value was exceeded, the electronic box would activate a solenoid that shot air pressure out to two nipples that were under the rope as it was cleated in a cam cleat on both the main and gennaker sheet. boat heels too much = air pressure pushing nipple up and blowing both sheets. neat-o.

 

[Harrier]

Some good thinking there, Ronnie. Seems to me that the sort of cats you're talking about are very light and therefore have the potential to be affected badly by some of the wind and sea conditions that can arise quickly in the open ocean. If you are awake and alert, I'm sure you could cope with most conditions when they come up. But one must consider that sleep is necessary and the speed at which the skipper must react might well be impossible to achieve. Double handed, one thing....but singlehanded...??? I would bet you could do it, but I think the odds would be against the bet.

 

[ronnie simpson]

my plan was manage my sleep so that i am easily woken by changing conditions and remain semi-awake for the entire trip. i pretty much did that on the Moore. by extending the hulls forward with more volume in the bows and an easily reefable sail plan and being widened with gear stowed on windward side, i think flip risk will be minimal, but if i go the beach cat route, i want to be fully set up to self-right if i go over.

 

[BobJ]

I think the risk is more from digging the hulls in and pitchpoling, especially in a 0200 tradewinds squall. You can't even see those coming unless you have radar. More volume in the bows would help but 35 knots against a lightweight, unballasted boat is still 35 knots.

Ryan Finn however is attempting to put together a Bieker-designed Proa to establish a solo non-stop NY to SF record, going east to west around Cape Horn in a proa. Ryan is one of my friends and a great inspiration to me. http://2oceans1rock.org/

Some of us were sure the new Bieker proa would run away with the R2AK but even at the high level that project was conducted, they couldn't get the weight and balance issues resolved. I assume Ryan's project is a bigger boat?

I was impressed with how the F-25C did in that race, to the point where I would consider one as a future boat. Sailing that fast (and relatively level) is indeed appealing! However (and as The General suggests) they weren't racing singlehanded. With three people aboard there was always someone on deck to blow the sheets, plus the heavy sailing in that race was upwind where pitchpoling wasn't a risk.

Have you talked to Gary Helms? I'll bet he has a solution for singlehanding a multihull offshore solo. I still wonder if a fuse on the sheets, like we've talked about for boom preventers, would reduce the risk to an acceptable level.

I learned something about the SHTP when Chris had to standby the Kirby for so long in 2006. He did the right thing of course, but his own SHTP race experience was screwed. All the redress in the world doesn't get you to the awards dinner and all the missed tree times in between. If I thought my bleeding edge SHTP experience might put a fellow competitor through that, I wouldn't do it. (But I'm repeating myself.)

 

[Lanikai]

Having never sailed to Hawaii (or more than a couple miles beyond Pt. Bonita), I don't know what kind of conditions one typically faces. Sounds like pretty nice downwind trades and easy water from what I gather.
But I suspect at some point you must get a few hours of big and/or steep swells, and enough wind to move a light multihull at double-digit speeds. The first few Evel-Knievel airs might be exhilarating, but I for one am sure I'd be waterborne in short order!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWBvVedo9QU

 

[Harrier]

You may be surprised if you head out for Hawaii expecting "nice downwind trades and easy water".