Changes to the season scoring for 2013?

[Travieso]

What is this?

vi. An entrant in the Singlehanded division in the Corinthian, Round the Rocks or Half Moon Bay race, who finishes the race, will, in addition to receiving his/her Singlehanded score, receive 0 points in the Doublehanded division for that race (limit one such score per season).

This could really skew the results for the DH series. It is already a shorter series than SH and by gifting a win for someone entering the same race SH seems ridiculously unfair. If we want to increase SH participation get rid of the DH option. But if the option to do DH is there you must not dilute the value of that championship by granting 'wins' for boats that haven't won.

Also, this rule also seems to have changed:
"b. Points are accrued only by unique skipper/boat combinations; i.e. a boat sailed by a substitute skipper or a skipper who changes boats will be scored as an unrelated entry."

I think this has been the recent wording for SH entries, but I seem to recall a provision for dh boats that at least 1 of the two designated crew needed to be present in all races to qualify for the score (irrespective if it was the skipper or the crew).

Also, why this exception?
Finished after deadline: 1.0 point in Half Moon Bay Race (not applicable in other races)

If this is an issue extend the time limit for HMB. Folks take their own finishes anyways, and there are no trophies for the HMB race so it really doesn't matter much what is the time limit (other than for the RC formally accounting for all boats). A DNF is a DNF. Folks have missed the finish to the TBF by seconds as well, why would their DNF count more?

 

[Philpott]

Careful. Bob Johnston, new board member and long time proud member of the SSS reminds us (at every opportunity) that this is the Singlehanded Sailing Society, not the doublehanded sailing society. There are others in the Club who agree, even though some of their best friends may be doublehanded sailors.

And I'll bet that credit for HMB isn't meant for the Finished After Deadline folks, just those who finish in time. It was an oversight not to have taken that into account. But let's find out by waiting patiently for clarification ...

 

[BobJ]

I've been heard to bang the drum pretty hard for single-handers but I wasn't in on these changes. Perhaps Max can explain how these will work.

I do notice that fewer than 20% of 3BF registrants (so far) are single-handers . . .

 

[Travieso]

I to am a proud member and ex-Vice Commodore of the SSS. I'd be happy to sail singlehanded, did that for many years and would be doing now if it wasn't for the reversal of rules to exclude my boat from doing the ocean races and give me chance to compete for the singlehanded season. Now the double handed season is devalued by granting wins to people not competing on it??? If you are going to have a DH season championship, have it and don't screw with it. If the new board doesn't want to support DH, then get rid of it, I'll go race SH in what I get allowed to.

 

[BobJ]

"double handed season is being devalued by granting wins to people not competing on it"

My understanding is it's an incentive, once per season, to get a doublehander to try singlehanding without losing his/her progress in the DH season standings. Perhaps it should have been average points in the DH races so far, rather than a "0" score, but Max and the board probably calculated that wouldn't be enough of an incentive. I'll let Max speak to that.

 

[tiger beetle]

I would just get rid of the season scoring - it would stop all the nonsense about whom is the best singlehander out there. As I see it, the SSS is about sailing our boats as best as we can to do as best as we can in each race, and each race stands alone. The 'overall' trophy to some extent devalues doing well in an individual race. So I don't like that trophy.

Alternatively, retain the singlehanded season winner and do away with the doublehanded award - as has been mentioned, this is the singlehanded sailing society.

- rob/beetle

 

[Travieso]

We should have some open discussion on how to improve singlehanded participation.

For me, currently, if singlehanded was the only option I would still come out singlehanded and compete for the races I can participate on. On LongPac years it is nearly impossible to compete for the DH season without doing either LongPac or HMB. Those years I would be more inclined to do the races I can singlehanded (except that for this year I had already committed to one of my long running crew members that I will do DH with him). Transpac years, as long as there is a DH season I have a chance to compete for that and would likely go DH.

The club should run some numbers on the impact of eliminating DH entries, both financially and in participation. Or perhaps sample the membership, which I fear is mostly composed of DH entries.... The Farallones race, as the one yearly SH only race might give some guidance as to what to expect from a participation perspective.

 

[BobJ]

One thing I'm pleased about is the number of couples racing - Gordie and Ruth, Rich and Mary, Jim and Jen, Rob and Kristen, etc. And as you pointed out awhile back, it does pay the bills.

 

[Critter]

Here is the evolution of the lifeline requirement according to my records:
through 2007: "Lifelines or safety lines"
2008-10: "Lifelines or safety rails" (The nincompoop who came on board as Race Chair in 2008 interpreted "safety lines" as a synonym for lifelines instead of jacklines, added jacklines elsewhere, and changed "safety lines" to "safety rails" to accommodate boats that might come along with hard rails.)
2011: Lifelines per OSR, except vinyl covering OK and boats <30' exempted
2012: Lifelines per OSR, except vinyl OK; no exemptions

As for the season scoring:

Yes, the zero score in DH for racing SH is intended to encourage people to try singlehanding. Yes, I'm the one who came up with the idea, and the current board (less Bob, who wasn't official at the time) approved it. Instead of "gifting a win", I think of it as asking for a commitment to the primary purpose of the club. If it doesn't work, or if everyone hates the idea, the board can dump it next year. Or this year!

FAD score for Half Moon Bay: Extending the time limit in the SIs would delay the BBQ and party, and if the change is made during the race (because it's a drifter) it would be hard to reliably get the message to all racers. (BTW, we've started the race half an hour earlier the last couple of years to help more boats finish.) The 1.0 score (vs. 1.1 for DNF) is just a small gesture to accommodate slow boats that are determined to stick it out. Half Moon Bay and SH TransPac (we have FAD there too) are two races where you're probably not going to turn around and go home if you get 90% of the way there.

The specific skipper/boat rule has been there for a few years. I would be inclined to interpret it liberally - for example, if Steve and Connie Hill do every race together, I'd still give him/them the points no matter who's listed as skipper - but it seems to me we want one person on board for every race, not either one of two. Substituting for the skipper is a more significant change in our races than in crewed races, don't you agree?

And on Beetle's opinion to get rid of season championships, which he's expressed before, I just don't get it. If you want to find out who can sail the best on a given day, why wouldn't you also want to see who can keep it up over the course of the year?

 

[Travieso]

Here is the evolution of the lifeline requirement according to my records:
through 2007: "Lifelines or safety lines"
2008-10: "Lifelines or safety rails" (The nincompoop who came on board as Race Chair in 2008 interpreted "safety lines" as a synonym for lifelines instead of jacklines, added jacklines elsewhere, and changed "safety lines" to "safety rails" to accommodate boats that might come along with hard rails.)
2011: Lifelines per OSR, except vinyl covering OK and boats <30' exempted
2012: Lifelines per OSR, except vinyl OK; no exemptions

Thanks Max, that should put that tangent thread to rest. How do you feel about archiving the historical SSI's somewhere on the site. I have the pdf versions of '05 and '06 that I can send out. I think it is important as some of the syntax changes can be small in size but significant in semantics that they are not always easily spotted.

As for the season scoring:

Yes, the zero score in DH for racing SH is intended to encourage people to try singlehanding. Yes, I'm the one who came up with the idea, and the current board (less Bob, who wasn't official at the time) approved it. Instead of "gifting a win", I think of it as asking for a commitment to the primary purpose of the club. If it doesn't work, or if everyone hates the idea, the board can dump it next year. Or this year!

This will be a problem the moment it impacts the top standing for the season. It might not happen this year or next, but it will happen and someone will be pissed (rightfully). Even thought it is well intended, but I'm afraid it is going to be used more as a tool to improve your DH standing than to explore SH. I would venture a guess that the top 10 on the DH season championship are fairly well accomplished SH'ders. I don't think this change is needed.

FAD score for Half Moon Bay: Extending the time limit in the SIs would delay the BBQ and party, and if the change is made during the race (because it's a drifter) it would be hard to reliably get the message to all racers. (BTW, we've started the race half an hour earlier the last couple of years to help more boats finish.) The 1.0 score (vs. 1.1 for DNF) is just a small gesture to accommodate slow boats that are determined to stick it out. Half Moon Bay and SH TransPac (we have FAD there too) are two races where you're probably not going to turn around and go home if you get 90% of the way there.

I don't feel as strongly as this one. But again, the net effect is that it really doesn't mean anything and it could possibly affect the season scoring in an unfair way. Perhaps not as likely impacting the top spot. I think the FAD for the Transpac is ok, heck you've been out there for 3 weeks. But I wouldn't extend it to HMB

The specific skipper/boat rule has been there for a few years. I would be inclined to interpret it liberally - for example, if Steve and Connie Hill do every race together, I'd still give him/them the points no matter who's listed as skipper - but it seems to me we want one person on board for every race, not either one of two. Substituting for the skipper is a more significant change in our races than in crewed races, don't you agree?

Do you have the previous wording handy, it think it was a bit better and allowed a bit of flexibility. Honestly, I don't think the skipper change is a problem to solve on the DH. In many cases both crew can or do drive the boat. Last year I wasn't able to make one race and my crew and his dad did it instead. It certainly wasn't to get any advantage, but having that flexibility did allow us to remain competitive on the season standings.

And on Beetle's opinion to get rid of season championships, which he's expressed before, I just don't get it. If you want to find out who can sail the best on a given day, why wouldn't you also want to see who can keep it up over the course of the year?

I don't get it either. I think the individual races are well rewarded with perpetual trophies. And the variety of courses and conditions throughout the year make the season championship a significant accomplishment.

 

[BobJ]

Last year I wasn't able to make one race and my crew and his dad did it instead. It certainly wasn't to get any advantage, but having that flexibility did allow us to remain competitive on the season standings.

Really? On the others I'd be willing to wait and see but this one seems more appropriate for a beer can series, if at all. How about if I'm tied for the DH season and I bring in Skip to sail the final race, and I'm not even aboard?

On the DH'er racing once as a SH'er, I'd feel better about average points (vs. a "win"). I agree with Dan that you could really juice your DH score.

 

[Critter]

The problem with average points - and this applied when we had the credit for working race committee too - is that your score changes retroactively as the season goes on. It's a real hassle to calculate (not so much for Jibeset as when I was doing it!), and if you're serious about beating so-and-so for the season it's harder to calculate what you have to do in the final race.

Dan made a good point that's occurred to me too: by the time you really care about your points in SSS, you're probably a competent singlehander anyway. What we need is a way to lure neophytes to the dark side.

 

[BobJ]

Agreed on the hassle part. What about using your last DH score? "Gee, we did great in that last race. Maybe I'll step up to the challenge and race single-handed next time - at least I know my results won't suffer."

Not trying to make this hard and I'm willing to try it as is - just seems pretty generous.

Regarding the neophytes, I think it's a great idea for a few SH's to take them along. It's a sacrifice I'd be willing to make for someone who convinced me they were serious about single-handing. I don't think you can "incentivize" it in the scoring (we're fiddling with that too much already in my view). But I think it would be the most effective way to get more single-handers out there. Vallejo Yacht Club has a whole harbor full of prospects.

I wonder how many skippers would sign up for a special race just for this purpose. That would take away the "sacrifice" vis-a-vis season results. I think you've done this, Jim has offered before for OYRA, I would do it.


Oh, and HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAX! I heard it's a round number.

.

 

[Travieso]

Really? On the others I'd be willing to wait and see but this one seems more appropriate for a beer can series, if at all. How about if I'm tied for the DH season and I bring in Skip to sail the final race, and I'm not even aboard?

Then you would have established your reputation with the rest of the skippers. I doubt Skip will sign up for that

 

[Travieso]

The problem with average points - and this applied when we had the credit for working race committee too - is that your score changes retroactively as the season goes on. It's a real hassle to calculate (not so much for Jibeset as when I was doing it!), and if you're serious about beating so-and-so for the season it's harder to calculate what you have to do in the final race.

Dan made a good point that's occurred to me too: by the time you really care about your points in SSS, you're probably a competent singlehander anyway. What we need is a way to lure neophytes to the dark side.

I tried thinking of a few other ways of encouraging SH participation and I came out to the conclusion that the Vallejo race already serves this purpose. It forces DH skippers to sail SH on Sat, and SH skippers to sail DH on Sunday. So you get to try it both ways.

Another option would be to turn one of the in the bay races to SH only, but the DH count of races is already small so it might be better to add an in the bay SH only race.

Another option is to count all the races, including the SH only races (Farallones, Vallejo-1, but not the SHTP) to the season standing for the DH racers as well. DHers will have to do those races single-handed but we would generate a separate overall scores for SH and DH for season scoring purposes. This will introduce a 2 throw-out series for DH as well. They can still do well by doing the DH only series but could improve their chances by joining the SH only races.

 

[BobJ]

Then you would have established your reputation with the rest of the skippers. I doubt Skip will sign up for that

I'm sure he wouldn't either, nor would I ask him in those circumstances - but it makes the point. How do we know your crew's dad isn't Dennis Conner?

 

[Travieso]

I'm sure he wouldn't either, nor would I ask him in those circumstances - but it makes the point. How do we know your crew's dad isn't Dennis Conner?

possible but improbable. I don't think there is any history of abuse and the previous wording I believe was sufficient, I just don't have it handy to compare. I think I'm going to start archiving SSI's

 

[BobJ]

2012: https://www.jibeset.net/racedoc/JACKY_T002037580nr.pdf?t=1357536712

2011: https://www.jibeset.net/racedoc/JACKY_T002540161nr.pdf?t=1357536840

 

[tiger beetle]

And on Beetle's opinion to get rid of season championships, which he's expressed before, I just don't get it. If you want to find out who can sail the best on a given day, why wouldn't you also want to see who can keep it up over the course of the year?

No, I'm not interested. Each of us owns a boat that will do well on one course and not so well on another, and that's ok - everyone brings the boat they have to the start line and goes with it. Sometimes a boat will do great, sometimes it won't. Same is true for the skipper - sometimes all the calls are spot-on and sometimes you goof big time; but we all are (hopefully) out on the course to do as well as we can in what we brought, and have a really good time doing it.

I raced for quite a while in the OYRA and the only trophy that mattered was the Season Trophy - OYRA didn't have a skippers or trophy meetings until the one meeting at the end of the year by which time most folks had forgotten which races they had done well in, or which races they had sailed in. By contrast the SSS is super at having fun meetings for each race (two meeetings, even!), the racers can appreciate who did well and why in each one and by the end of the year I've forgotten who won most races or what they did - I'm still enjoying learning about who won the most recent race and what they did (that I probably didn't do). Because each race is important, fresh (and therefore relevant) in its own right, I don't see the value of trying to wrangle an UberSinglehander out of the results - an overall winner is simply not the purpose of the SSS - at least that's how I see it.

Plus, we don't have to drag each other over the coals regarding trying wrangle an 'in' or an 'out' in order to create the best possible circumstances for being the singlehander of the year. IN fact, I much preferred it when Joe Therriault would calculate the overall SSS racer using his secret formula (none of us knew his methodology) and yet he was able to surprise everybody at end of year when he trundled out the trophy and would say, "Guess what! - somebody won an extra trophy!" and would award it. That was fun - as you never knew what was going to happen, and as nobody paid attention to it through the year it was always a surprise.

- rob/beetle

 

[Jan Brewer]

Rob, funny you would mention "fun meetings" tonight on this forum 'cause you wouldn't believe the amount of emails flying back and forth among the board members tonight already planning the FUN things for 1/23. We'll deal with 2/13 later! I am voting as the best email the one sent by Matt, our awesome webmaster who most times is pretty silent when we get to yammering back and forth. Whoops, that particular email had to do with multihulls, not fun meetings! Oh, well, at least our new commodore was amused. He even mentioned something about all of us vying for spots as stand-up comics! See you the 23rd!