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chartering short handed race boats

R

racecharter

New member
Hi,

Interest is growing in short handed racing, but for many people it is too expensive, too time consuming or too far away from their own boat. A solution is to charter a boat for a specific race. This survey is about the demand for such boats.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/6GZZMRQ

I can't give any details of the proposed boats or the costs at the moment (hopefully within a month or so), but feel free to ask other questions, or offer advice.

Thanks,

rob
 
I can't how this would ever work. Insuring the boat would be the tough part even for doublehanders, and impossible for single handers…… unless the charter group is self-insured. Good Luck.
 
OK I did the survey, the priority question 1 - 9 is kind of hard to answer and mine is messed up.

Here on the West Coast, almost all longer races (from Windjammers thru the Hawaii races, and the races to Mexico) are downwind, and the PITA is getting the boat back home. For 'round the buoy races, I think insurance is an issue because of the possibility of collision. I guess the Heinekin and other Caribbean races have a history of charters.
 
no shock here, as solosailor said insurance is the killer. even when i had a sponsor and money lined up to charter a mini for SHTP, the insurance is what killed it. no one will insure you to race solo and even if you did manage insurance, i think it's almost impossible to find a policy that also includes covering the mast while racing.
 
Thanks for the feedback. Please keep it coming. Please also encourage people to fill in the survey, as the more answers we get, the more likely it will happen.

We have a couple of workable solutions to the insurance problem, including the rig. More about this when I can.

Races ending downwind is the same problem as races starting in locations where competitors do not have boats. The solution: A boat that is very simple to rig/derig, can be easily loaded/unloaded from a container without requiring any machinery and fits 2 boats in a container to halve the shipping costs. The proposed boat does all of these.

Ronnie,
Feel free to tell me to mind my own business, or email me off list ([email protected]), but I am collecting data on charter boat costs so would appreciate anything you can tell me about the costs and conditions of the Mini charter for the Solo Transpac. And any other boats for any other races.

Pogen,
if you want to redo questions 14 (priorities), let me know the revised answers and I will alter your survey, assuming you entered an email address.
14. How would your prioritize the selection criteria for (chartering) a boat. Please rank in order of importance - 1 = most important; 9 = least important)
Safety of the boat
Speed (compared to fleet)
Budget
High tech
ease of use and reliability of the boat
reliability of the charter company
Sailing comfort (and comfort of motion)
Simplicity of Equipment
Other


Thanks.
 
Each of our boats is different. It's not like we're racing Minis or Figaro II's and could fly to Newport, jump on another boat and immediately be competitive. I guess I'll have to wait and see where you're going with all this.

If part of the idea is to make our boats available to others, that's a non-starter. There are only 2-3 people I would even consider chartering my boat to, and then it would be a private arrangement.

As suggested above, over 200nm offshore this is all going to be a "self-insured" proposition.
 
BobJ said:
Each of our boats is different. It's not like we're racing Minis or Figaro II's and could fly to Newport, jump on another boat and immediately be competitive.
Click to expand...

True, but the simpler the boat, the easier it is to be competitive. And the lower the chance and cost of accidental damage.

BobJ said:
If part of the idea is to make our boats available to others, that's a non-starter. There are only 2-3 people I would even consider chartering my boat to, and then it would be a private arrangement.
Click to expand...

Not a consideration. The boats will be purpose built.
 
Rob, you are displaying ignorance and naivete regarding who we are and what we do. Who are you and what are your credentials?

Sounds a bit harsh but you're coming in here asking for a lot of information and offering very little yourself. My BS meter is starting to peg.
.
 
Last edited:
Building a fleet of purpose built boats for race charter seems like a very capital intensive effort. Are the boats to be owned by the charter operator? Most charter operations here at least are lease-back , usually with newish Huntalinas that are not allowed to race or go very far.

Maybe a better idea would be built around a destination -- I know there is a Laser school in the Dominican Republic (http://www.caribwind.com/), and there is that operation in the Carib that has a fleet of modified J/24s (the IC24 class) that operates a vacation camp of sorts for racers.
 
BobJ said:
Rob, you are displaying ignorance and naivete regarding who we are and what we do. Who are you and what are your credentials?

Sounds a bit harsh but you're coming in here asking for a lot of information and offering very little yourself. My BS meter is starting to peg.
Click to expand...

My apologies. I have made no assumptions about who you are and what you do apart from your interest in solo racing.
The survey was requested by a potential financier. He thought that if we released details of the group or the boats, it would dilute the survey results.
There is no BS involved, except my anonymity. ;-)

Pogen,
Thanks for the suggestions. It is capital intensive and lease back/time share was the original funding model, until the potential financier appeared.

The boats will be based in St Malo on the French north coast to access the races in the English Channel, Europe and across the Atlantic. They will be raced or shipped to the Caribbean for the local race season (Carib 600, Antigua Week, etc) during the northern hemisphere winter. If required, they will be shipped to SF for the Solo Transpac, Pacific Cup, etc.
 
Hi Rob,

When I'm on someone else's boat, or a charter boat - I've been on a few - they are never properly rigged or so dumbed down they are not suitable for racing. So many little things add up to unpleasantness: frozen sheaves, clutches that slip, undersized winches, blown out sails, stiff furlers, inappropriate sails, chafed lines, electrical system issues, engine issues, autopilot issues to name just a few that come to mind. Many things that are hard to find unless you're out using the boat. Count me out, unless your talking about a new, more standard IMOCA boat getting prepped for the Vendee.

But hey, good luck with it.
 
Ragnar,
Thanks. I could not agree more. Avoiding these types of problems was up there with low charter fees on the list of requirements for the boat. I can't be certain we have addressed them all until the boats are sailing, but I'm confident that those you have mentioned will be non issues.

Responses to the survey have been good (I vill publish them with the boat details), but there are not enough of them yet to make any decisions. Interestingly, most are from Australia and NZ, very few from USA and Europe.
Rob
 
Thanks to everyone who filled in the survey.
Without going too deeply into it, the results were as follows:
75% were racers, 95% had offshore experience, 80% want to do more short handed sailing, mostly ocean, 70% own a yacht, 40% were from Aus/NZ, 40% from USA, the rest from Aisa, Europe and other.
Dream races were all the usual suspects, with none predominating.
Time and money were why people did not do more, although lack of experience also got a mention.
Twice as many wanted a mono as a multi, but almost all of them were willing to race something different.
Ideal size was 35-45'.
Priorities from most to least important were: Safety, speed compared to the fleet, ease of use/reliability of boat, budget, reliability of charter company, simplicity of equipment and sailing comfort. These are quite similar to the priorities we assigned.
The average expected to pay for a week's racing was $US7,500. The average prepared to pay was $6,600. This is higher than we expected to charge.
Reasons not to charter were mostly time and money, but experience on the boat and worries about the boat being up to par also got a mention.

These results were mostly as expected, although the number of answers was lower, particularly away from the USA and NZ/Aus. There were enough to justify moving to the next step, which will happen at the end of June. There should be an announcement, including the boat, costs and availability by the end of July. Subject to finance and a whole lot of other stuff, building could commence shortly after.

The survey is still open.

Thanks again.

rob
 
Progress report on the build at http://harryproa.com/?p=424. The actual build is pretty fast, but life and paying jobs keep getting in the way so progress is not as quick as it could be. Dream is to be there for the solo Transpac next year. Same dream as I have had for the last three races, so no one is getting excited, yet.

rob
 
Do you mean entry in the SHTP? Don't forget the qualifiers, then. Good luck.
 
Thanks. If I haven't done at least 400 miles offshore, I certainly will not be ready for the race.
I'm curious. Why does half a multihull's qualifier have to be downwind? I would have thought for most of them, upwind would be more of a challenge.

regards,
rob
 
Hi,
Just thought I would let you know that Bucket List went for it's first sail on Sunday. 3 years for a 3 month build!

I decided I preferred experimenting to running a charter company, so it has a 3 piece telescoping, canting rig with no track or cars. All works so far. Finished weight ready to sail is 1,100 lbs, draws about 3", cost about $20,000, plus my labour.

The charter version is still an option, "just" need someone with $200,000 and some organisational skills to build 4 of them.

Solo Transpac still on the Bucket List bucket list, but probably not until 2020, which is only 12 years after I first got interested.

Video of it sailing (not very meaningful, sorry. Had other things to think about) and a bunch more info at http://harryproa.com/?cat=2

regards,

rob denney
 
Multihull qualifier has to have downwind component because that is the point of sail responsible for most multihull capsizes.
 
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