Fleet info - AIS Transceiver

[pogen]

After listening to the RC during the SHFarallones asking where people were, I got the idea that we could collect the AIS IDs (MMSIs) of those boats doing ocean races, so that RCs and others could monitor those boats in a race that have AIS transceiver (send/receive) and choose not to be in stealth mode.

I know this is a bit of an issue for some, who prefer not to transmit their position and SOG during a race. Fine, they can turn theirs off.

I would like to collect these numbers to establish if possible a page on our website with a map (from MarineTraffic.com or VesselFinder.com) such as I have on my personal page.

I'll start:

S/V Temerity Class B MMSI: 338108542

Perhaps this might better be done with an email blast to our mailing list?

 

[BobJ]

I've been collecting them but I can't get them for those who requested their MMSI through Boat US. Does anyone know if Boat US's MMSI database is available?

 

[todd22123]

I have never done this, but I believe that it is possible to "poll" the position of a boat that has a DSC Radio with an MMSI number, even if the boat does not have AIS. This is a little blurb from the Standard Horizon Product Page. The user can turn on and off the automatic response to polling requests.

"DSC Polling
STANDARD HORIZON has pioneered the capability to poll (request and send) the GPS location of another vessel and show the position of that vessel on the VHF's display. Standard Horizon has taken this feature one step further, if any Standard Horizon GPS is connected to the MATRIX the polled position of the vessel is shown on the display of the GPS chart plotter making it easy to navigate to the location of the polled vessel. This is a great feature for anyone wanting to know the position of anther vessel for example you buddy that is catching fish, or finding the location of a person you are cruising with."

Todd

 

[Wylieguy]

I believe Andy has been working on this with OYRA and BAMA. I think some experimentation was done for the BAMA Farallones Race a few weeks ago. You might contact him and find out. I know he polled my position -- without my knowing because he had my MMSI and I turned off the alarm so I wouldn't be bothered by it. Pat B.

 

[pogen]

Very interesting Todd --- I hadn't thought of that.. I am sure that there are some SSS members that will want to turn that off if they can!

I know some boats have AIS transmit -- like Culebra (?) VALIS, Lightspeed, Shaman , and others. We could get all the MMSIs from jibeset registration data I am sure.... but most won't have transceiver capability. Or do they...?

 

[K38Bob]

Very interesting Todd --- I hadn't thought of that.. I am sure that there are some SSS members that will want to turn that off if they can!

I know some boats have AIS transmit -- like Culebra (?) VALIS, Lightspeed, Shaman , and others. We could get all the MMSIs from jibeset registration data I am sure.... but most won't have transceiver capability. Or do they...?

Actually AIS shows up on free websites and on free chartplotters- we did both for DHF for fun. Caused angst for a new RC member since they came on and off. AIS is VHF so elevation, connections, line of sight (and on/off) come into play. No formal testing or requirement- just opportunistic but entertaining and educational.

We did poll VHF-DSC MMSI numbers with Andys rig and help as we used at skippers meeting as a learning exercise with a VOLUNTEER group of 8-9 boats with mixed results- when it worked- it worked well. Mostly a function of racer equipment condition and setup. Auto reply of position works best- the racer sets up radio that says if this number (RC) requests position, then send it. Many configuration menu's on radios

We had results out to the farallones- Ma's Rover being just south of maintop. Position shows right on chartplotter (andy's rig and help)- we also had voice contact from landsend to Ma's rover at that position w a 4ft 3db antennae at Lands end parking lot ( USS San Francisco) and 25w fixed mount. Also used for historical practice of roll call per SI.

SPOT btw had a system outage during the race and didn't inform customers until Monday via email- that caused angst from folks watching at home and they shared it.

The most intriguing opportunity to help RC - especially those that dont go to Lands end- is to give a position report to VTS which also helps them do their job and relieves stress. When they confirm position report w antennae on Mt Tam, RC in comfy in the bay YC can record. A free radio check as a bonus- which I think is important. This was a volunteer test to during DHF. Radio conditions varied- I think there's a solution in here somewhere for all- "SV approaching ,," and its free (well already paid for)

All of the numbers (including sat phone, SSB etc) are in Jibeset for RC and CG benefit- at least for DHF.

AIS example from the internet


BAMA volunteer DSC test (andys rig and help)- Ma's Rover ping at Maintop w position report and info (text box shown w Lat Long) followed by voice


We did a detailed report to NCORC and a summary at DHF awards.

Here's a writeup/video on the live fire (first time ever) DSC alert we did at skippers meeting.
http://www.pressure-drop.us/forums/content.php?4288-DSC-Calling-Who-s-Gonna-Answer

Jibeset is also working on smartphone tracking.

AIS was mandatory in a SoCal race- thread on SA. Unhappiness for leaders showing the way.

cheers
bob

PS- the most interesting surprise was that the remote setup could hear the GGYC as well as the ocean racers with a lot of dirt and rock in between the remote and GGYC. I duplicated this for DHLS. My bet is a reflection off Marin cliffs and/or GGB North tower- too crisp to be atmospheric- who knows. Brian B offered to do a directional test to seek the reflection source assuming its still repeatable - great if it is.

 

[pogen]

OK, I have created a test page for a sample fleet. See here:

http://sfbaysss.org/main/ais-map-experimental-page/


Since at a give time most boats are in the slip with the AIS powered down, there is not much to see. ELAN (Berkeley) and Turbo Camper (Alameda) seem to be on all the time though.

This will be more interesting on race days, of course.

Current test fleet:

1. Culebra 367413310
2. Elan 367300270
3. Green Buffalo 367065180
4. Plus Sixteen 338050101
5. Temerity 338108542
6. TESA 367517270
7. Turbo Camper 338129063

 

[Wylieguy]

You can add "NANCY" to the mix: 367435450. I'm not a "stealth" guy so don't mind if folks know where I am - or rather where the boat is. Notice the "367" and "338" numbers? "3" is USA and the "67" and 38" are localities. The final 6 numbers are your boat's ID. - Pat

 

[Lightspeed]

For the discussion Lightspeed is 338135487 with AIS but rig in on the rack at KKMI for two weeks so can not come out to play. R

 

[pogen]

You can add "NANCY" to the mix: 367435450. I'm not a "stealth" guy so don't mind if folks know where I am - or rather where the boat is. Notice the "367" and "338" numbers? "3" is USA and the "67" and 38" are localities. The final 6 numbers are your boat's ID. - Pat

Pat, no joy in looking up either your MMSI or finding you under "Nancy". Also, the MMSI given by Bandicoot for Jibeset and the one in the database are different. And Pogo cannot be found at all.

I wonder if maybe people are getting different MMSIs for their AIS vs. their DSC-VHF? In the US, the ship VHF, AIS ,and all handhelds are supposed to have the same MMSI.

For reference, I am using these two sites to look up boat names etc. though there are many others

http://www.vesselfinder.com/
http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/home

I have a total of 17 good IDs now, but some of them have a last reported position of a year ago or more. So I'm not sure about the value!

 

[Philpott]

Thanks for doing this, David. To clarify, Dura Mater has an MMSI registration o#339166477. I need to activate it by programming it into my DSC capable 1/ fixed mount vhf; 2/ handheld vhf. Do the radios need to be turned on to be "seen"? Can I program my PLB w/ the MMSI? How about my Garmin handheld gps? Thanks for enlightenment.

 

[Wylieguy]

Thanks for doing this, David. To clarify, Dura Mater has an MMSI registration o#339166477. I need to activate it by programming it into my DSC capable 1/ fixed mount vhf; 2/ handheld vhf. Do the radios need to be turned on to be "seen"? Can I program my PLB w/ the MMSI? How about my Garmin handheld gps? Thanks for enlightenment.

Jackie, The MMSI # is for your DSC VHF radios only. Yes, the radio must be turned on the be "seen."

The PLB has its own registration # - which looks something like this: 1ABC2 12FE12 FFBFF.

Your GPS is a "receive only" device so doesn't have a #. It can be hooked up to a DSC VHF radio without an internal GPS unit to provide GPS information, but only through such a DSC VHF radio.

Since you already have the MMSI number, turn on your radio(s) and CAREFULLY follow the instructions in the handbook for each. Be sure you get the CORRECT MMSI # programmed in before hitting the "no back up button." If you've made a mistake, you have to send the whole radio back (usually to the maker - NOT the store from which you purchased it!!!!) and have it "de-programmed." There is no way to change an MMSI number once it's in.

--Pat B.

 

[Wylieguy]

David, I've sent you a copy of my FCC license with the MMSI number to your SSS officer email address. -- Pat

 

[Tchoupitoulas]

Are you sure David that handhelds should have the same mmsi number? When you register you select the radio type. If you want to take your handheld on another boat it would be better to have a different number so you can easily change the information on the night before a race on your pal's boat for instance. Plus the fact that it's a handheld and not a fixed-mount vhf (or portable diving vhf, etc.) is available to the CG as well. I'm going to get a new number for my SH HX850s but guess what? I have to mail it back to the factory to be able to enter a new mmsi number.

Starbuck
338 088 439
AIS receive only

 

[Philpott]

Yes, the radio must be turned on t0 be "seen." --Pat B.

Looking at Vesselfinder.com I see Brian Cline's Maris and Elan in the Berkeley Marina. Who leaves his/her vhf radio on when at the dock? David, I see Temerity. Is her radio turned on right now? Why can I see it when I can't find Green Buffalo?

 

[pogen]

Are you sure David that handhelds should have the same mmsi number? When you register you select the radio type. If you want to take your handheld on another boat it would be better to have a different number

Just because what you say makes sense, does not make it so.

See: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=mtMmsi

Obtaining MMSIs for DSC-equipped VHF Handhelds

A handheld VHF transceiver with DSC and an integral global navigation satellite system (e.g. GPS) not intended for dedicated use on a particular ship (e.g. a diver’s radio) should be assigned a unique 9-digit number in the format 81M2I3D4X5X6X7X8X9. While currently means do not exist within the U.S. to assign such identities, the Coast Guard has been in discussions with the Federal communications Commission and others on implementing them.

In the interim, VHF handhelds used in the United States should use the MMSI assigned to the ship to which the handheld is primarily associated, even if another radio on that ship uses the same MMSI. Non-commercial users of VHF handhelds not primarily associated with any single ship may use an MMSI provided by an organization such as BOAT US, SEA TOW and U.S. Power Squadron (see above). VHF handhelds should not be used ashore absent FCC or NTIA authorization allowing such use.

BOATUS is a bit more ambiguous:

I have a handheld radio on board my boat. Should it have it's own MMSI number?

If you plan to use the handheld on other boats, you might want a separate MMSI number so that you can update the registration according to which boat it is currently on. If you plan to use it only on one boat, you can use the same MMSI number as the fixed radio.

Of course in Norway, everything is better.

I'm pretty sure when I bought my spiffy SH HX851 a couple of years ago they were firmer about using the same MMSI for handhelds as the main vessel, though this is not really that smart in a lot of ways, and changing the number is a factory service operation for some dumb reason. Probably anti-terrorism.

 

[pogen]

Looking at Vesselfinder.com I see Brian Cline's Maris and Elan in the Berkeley Marina. Who leaves his/her vhf radio on when at the dock? David, I see Temerity. Is her radio turned on right now? Why can I see it when I can't find Green Buffalo?

It depends on which website you are looking at, how long they keep the stale data on the map. Also if you search for a particular vessel it will show you the last known position, even if it is from a year ago. I had Temerity out on Saturday, maybe GB just hasn't had his AIS turned on in a while. Really, in the Bay you shouldn't have it on at all , it just makes for clutter. Unless night or fog, I guess.

Turbo Camper and Shaman though, seem to be plugged into shore power and are truly on all the time.

My own AIS is hardwired to my radio on the power panel, but many people will have a separate 'stealth mode' switch to let them receive but not send. One good reason to turn off the AIS is that it draws about 1A of current, which is kind of a lot sailing in good wx and keeping a watch on deck.

 

[Philpott]

Turbo Camper and Shaman though, seem to be plugged into shore power and are truly on all the time. .

To confirm: a boat must be on shore power + the radio must be turned on to show up on the site? Or the site notes when the ais was last active?

 

[Dazzler]

There is one handheld portable VHF/DSC/GPS out there than can have the MMSI changed without being sent back to the factory. It's the Nautilus Lifeline Marine Rescue Radio. It's an emergency VHF/DSC radio originally designed for divers and not really intended for routine communication. It's a fully functional VHF with DSC and builtin GPS www.nautiluslifeline.com See the bottom of the SUPPORT/MMSI INFORMATION page for how to easily change the MMSI.

I own a Nautilus Lifeline and have witnessed one in use to recover a lost diver in the open ocean. They are very waterproof and much smaller than the typical VHF/DSC/GPS units. The smaller size makes it much easier to attach to your lifejacket, etc.

Regarding Starbuck's (Tchoupitoulas') question, the Nautilus Lifeline website has instructions on how to get an MMSI for a "Portable Diving VHF w/DSC." And states that "You will be able to login and update the registration at any point to include current locations should they change periodically."

Tom Patterson
Dazzler

 

[pogen]

Hey I caught Elan making a bagel run to Pier 1 1/2, 0822 PDT.