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Insurance
- Thread starter Mountain
- Start date
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
This gets asked every race and the short answer is No.
Don't tell them you're singlehanding and make sure there's no exclusion for it. That may get you to 200 nm offshore. Beyond that, you're probably self-insured.
If someone knows differently for a solo race to Hawaii, please let us know.
Don't tell them you're singlehanding and make sure there's no exclusion for it. That may get you to 200 nm offshore. Beyond that, you're probably self-insured.
If someone knows differently for a solo race to Hawaii, please let us know.
Yep, that's my conclusion. My policy says I'm covered in "coastal waters of the US and Canada", and offers no definition of that term. The US exerts authority over its coastal waters out to 200 nm, so arguably I'm covered for the first 200 and last 200 nm of each crossing. Not a definitive answer, but good enough for me.
Stan Pawlak
New member
I concur with what has been said. In 2019 I extended my insurance coverage to Mexico. The addendum came back written with the clause “must have a minimum of three sailors on board.”
Rainbow
Ocean Cruiser
A word of caution...
I found my insurance company (GEICO) interprets their language to mean the policy becomes void and is automatically cancelled for breach of contract if I leave the covered area. They don't consider it just suspended while I'm outside the 200 mile limit, and they don't consider it an active policy just because I re-enter the covered area later. Mine found out, well after the fact, that I had done the 2018 SHTP without telling them and threatened to cancel/not renew just a couple of months ago for 2021. This time I know they are watching both the PACCUP and SHTP sites to see if boats they cover are racing without telling them. It can be a bad thing if they cancel your policy for a breach -- if you try to get coverage later they may consider you a "bad risk" for having broken their rules. This year I'll do what I did do once several years ago, i.e. cancel the policy myself as " no longer needed" when I cross the 200 mile point, then apply for a new policy when I get back, all with the help of my good agent.
I found my insurance company (GEICO) interprets their language to mean the policy becomes void and is automatically cancelled for breach of contract if I leave the covered area. They don't consider it just suspended while I'm outside the 200 mile limit, and they don't consider it an active policy just because I re-enter the covered area later. Mine found out, well after the fact, that I had done the 2018 SHTP without telling them and threatened to cancel/not renew just a couple of months ago for 2021. This time I know they are watching both the PACCUP and SHTP sites to see if boats they cover are racing without telling them. It can be a bad thing if they cancel your policy for a breach -- if you try to get coverage later they may consider you a "bad risk" for having broken their rules. This year I'll do what I did do once several years ago, i.e. cancel the policy myself as " no longer needed" when I cross the 200 mile point, then apply for a new policy when I get back, all with the help of my good agent.
This is also exactly the same thing as what I heard from my insurance. It's better to cancel it right before the race. That's why I would have to get the boat re-surveyed once I get to Kauai for the crew delivery trip home in the original 2020 SHTP race in order to get the boat insured again. In 2021, they don't want to do anything like this at all.
George McKay on his Capo 30 can't even get insurance to race the Los Angeles Transpac in July with a full crew. Boat "too old (1984)." That other Transpac requires insurance (thankfully not the SHTP). So George has spent a lot of time and money, now withdrawn his entry, and his double axle trailer is available.
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solosailor
New member
As I recall in '13 the Transpac dropped the insurance requirement as like 1/3 off the fleet couldn't get coverage. Are they standing firm on this now?
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
$1 million of liability coverage. No mention of hull coverage so maybe a big umbrella policy could work. See 4.3.1 (L):
https://transpacyc.com/assets/documents/2021/NOR-Transpac-2021.pdf
But 'ya know - this is another thing that sets our race apart. You don't have to have an engine, and you don't have to have insurance. May it long be so!
https://transpacyc.com/assets/documents/2021/NOR-Transpac-2021.pdf
But 'ya know - this is another thing that sets our race apart. You don't have to have an engine, and you don't have to have insurance. May it long be so!
I don't have a dog in this hunt. However, below are two recent letters from George McCormick to his 4 crew explaining the difficulties he was experiencing in acquiring insurance required for the upcoming Los Angeles to Honolulu Race.
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The latest hurdle that I am having difficulty overcoming is the insurance requirement for the TPYC. I had my insurance specialist call around for me and she was unable to find an underwriter that would sign me up. I contacted the insurance company that is sponsoring the Transpac and they turned me down:
Thank you for completing our Online Yacht Insurance Request form for yacht insurance coverage. Unfortunately, our markets are unable to offer terms due to your vessel’s age, value, navigation limits required. I am sorry we are unable to assist.
I found another agent who said that he would like to help, but needs a survey before submitting to the underwriters. I sent an email to the TPYC to see if they have any recommendations or if they could get me in touch with a competitor with a Cal 40 (same value, even older boat). If anyone has any connections with a boat insurer, please let me know. George
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I just got a call from one of the Transpac race managers who also is an insurance broker. He was very pleasant and tried to work through the problem with me and said that if Novamar was unable to find a policy for us, no one could. He also explained that the Cal 40s have a “history “ of doing this race where as Transpac races are “out of the ordinary “ for me and my boat. He said that if I had a business like the owner of Pyewacket, that I could threaten to move my insurance elsewhere if they didn’t cover my boat as well. I said that I don’t really have that kind of leverage Finally he said that he always recommends finding insurance before leaping into a big project like the Transpac. I thanked him for his advice.
It really wouldn’t matter if we still wanted to do the Transpac, the insurance would be a deal breaker. (Although he liked the idea of the bond, he didn’t think the board would accept it).
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
An avid racer we both know offered to fund a TP campaign for Ragtime!. Rags was also 30' but much newer than George's boat, and at the time already had two SHTPs and a return trip under her keel.
But as I studied the stability and other requirements, it became apparent that the TPYC had crafted them to include certain boats and exclude others. My J/92 could not be made to qualify.
Again, long live the Singlehanded Transpac - er, the Singlehanded Transpacific Yacht Race. Run what 'ya brung.
But as I studied the stability and other requirements, it became apparent that the TPYC had crafted them to include certain boats and exclude others. My J/92 could not be made to qualify.
Again, long live the Singlehanded Transpac - er, the Singlehanded Transpacific Yacht Race. Run what 'ya brung.
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger...I attempted to enter WILDFLOWER in the LA Transpac. Was told my boat was "too slow." Feeling a bit of insult, I replied my boat had been fast enough to win the Pac Cup, and that I would accept whatever reduction in handicap made me fast enough. Basically was told to get lost.
Ironically, a month later, after 40 years of TPYC membership, I was invited to be on the Board of Directors, an exclusive club dominated by PYEWACKET crew. My reply was something like "you want me to help run your race, yet I am not eligible to enter?"
Somebody should make shirts that say " SINGLEHANDED TRANSPAC: 'YA RUN WHAT 'YA BRUNG" on the back, and "BUGLIGHTER" on the front pocket.
Extra scoop of Macapuno for whomever remembers what famous Bay racer drew and printed these infamous T-shirts for the '96 Pacific Cup:
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As I read the question, I realized I had no clue. But, I will guess Peter Costello since he spent much time on SSS graphics (but wasn’t a noted SF Bay racer that I know of).
I encourage Peter to be remembered, even tbough he has passed.
Ants
Hi Ants,
Peter was a good friend, wonderful artist, and all around good guy. We miss him and Patricia. Sorry, but Peter did not do the above T-shirt. Guess again if you wish.
PS. what are you doing driving to NJ? On your scooter, hihi? Are the dogs aboard?
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Sorry Tom, not Phil Frank.
This sailor regularly competes in SSS, often finishing near the top.
Jonathan Gutoff
New member
Jonathan "Bird" Livingston. He races the Wylie 39 Punk Dolphin.
Good grief, we have the first ever, unbreakable tie. Both Jonathan and David answered correctly that it was Jonathan "Birdman" Livingston who drew the cartoons on the 1996 PacCup crew shirts. And the times of their winning posts were both 7:37 pm. What are the chances? Dead heat. OK, I think we can afford an extra scoop of Marianne's Macapuno for both you guys. Well done.
Sorry to be off topic, but there is a wonderful, hilarious backstory to the Squall Busters T-shirt, the first time an Express-27 raced off into the unknown and to Hawaii. Were there controlled substances involved? Probably. You can read this epic here: http://express27.org/articles/squallbusters Would suggest sitting on the floor so you won't fall out of your chair.
Here's a taste of the Squall Busters tape:
Gary: We averaged 16 knots throughout the event. (His voice is hoarse too.)
Jonathan: It was just incredible, bounding from wave top to wave top. In the morning you wouldn't believe what the boat looked like. It has fish skeletons coming out of the scuppers . . . We just tore the skin right off of those fish when they got caught. Man, we had seaweed hanging in the rigging. (Gary is laughing and gasping in the background.) It was just incredible. Our hair was stiff from the salt.
Gary: We looked like a motorcycle gang but instead of bugs we had fish and squid all over the windshield.
Jonathan: Yeah! (Laughs) Man, this poor boat. It's holding up real well. I couldn't believe it. Clifford did the first ever crest-to-crest leap on an Express. He must have been airborne for at least 20 seconds. (Clifford laughs in the background.) We were busting those squalls and they fought back hard. There were heavy casualties suffered on both sides.
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