-
Ahoy and Welcome to the New SSS Forum!!
As you can see, we have migrated our old forums to new software. All your old posts, threads, attachments, and messages should be here. If you see anything out of place or have any questions, please click
You should be able to login with your old credentials. If you have any issues, try resetting your password before clicking the Contact Us link.
Cheers - SSS Technical Infrastructure
Mini transat/Pogo 2 suitability
- Thread starter Andrew C
- Start date
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Minis are very cool boats and well-suited for singlehanded racing - that's what they were designed for.
The problem locally is that in its desire to protect our aging, dwindling handicap fleet, NorCal PHRF gives Minis a rating that is impossible to sail to. In a push to avoid PHRF and race as a class, the local class reached a peak of six boats in 2010. Two were Protos rated from 81-87, and four were Series boats rated from 102-105.
While San Francisco Bay has the reputation of being a windy venue, it is consistently windy only along the Cityfront. The rest of the Bay often sees lighter wind. We also have a lot of upwind work in our races. So you have Minis rated like a 35-40 foot boat, trying to compete in conditions where they can't use their only advantage - planing off the wind.
Based on observed performance, Series Minis (like the Pogo 2) should rate the same as a Moore 24 for racing on the Bay = 150.
The Singlehanded TransPac has a rating adjustment formula that puts a Series Mini up to 121 or so. So in a windy year they can be competitive racing to Hawaii - but that's one race held every two years.
I think you could have a lot of fun racing a Mini in SSS but you won't win any races unless NorCal PHRF decides to join the 21st century and give these boats fair ratings.
The problem locally is that in its desire to protect our aging, dwindling handicap fleet, NorCal PHRF gives Minis a rating that is impossible to sail to. In a push to avoid PHRF and race as a class, the local class reached a peak of six boats in 2010. Two were Protos rated from 81-87, and four were Series boats rated from 102-105.
While San Francisco Bay has the reputation of being a windy venue, it is consistently windy only along the Cityfront. The rest of the Bay often sees lighter wind. We also have a lot of upwind work in our races. So you have Minis rated like a 35-40 foot boat, trying to compete in conditions where they can't use their only advantage - planing off the wind.
Based on observed performance, Series Minis (like the Pogo 2) should rate the same as a Moore 24 for racing on the Bay = 150.
The Singlehanded TransPac has a rating adjustment formula that puts a Series Mini up to 121 or so. So in a windy year they can be competitive racing to Hawaii - but that's one race held every two years.
I think you could have a lot of fun racing a Mini in SSS but you won't win any races unless NorCal PHRF decides to join the 21st century and give these boats fair ratings.
Last edited:
BobJ,
Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply. That information is exactly what I was looking for, and you have helped me decide to strongly consider one of these. I am primarily interested on singlehanded offshore racing, with the 2020 SHTP being the "big goal," and will use the local races as sailing practice. I am fine to get beaten on PHRF rating. I currently own and race a Melges 24, but that is impossible to singlehand (without modifying out of the one-design class), and I don't find getting/managing crew to be very fun.
Thank you for your help
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
I especially like the Pogo 2 because it's relatively roomy inside. I inspected Jerome's boat for the SHTP and was impressed.
If you research local race results before applying for your rating and submit them with your application, you might have better luck than your predecessors. Check Jibeset under the SSS and start back in 2009 or so.
In the last SHTP, Gregory's Pogo 2 Libra rated 127.
If you research local race results before applying for your rating and submit them with your application, you might have better luck than your predecessors. Check Jibeset under the SSS and start back in 2009 or so.
In the last SHTP, Gregory's Pogo 2 Libra rated 127.
Last edited:
Gregory's base PHRF was adjusted by NORCAL PHRF from 105 (in 2016) to 117 (2018) before the SHTP modifiers were applied to get to 127.
my suspicion is that's where a Pogo 2 would now land; he petitioned the committee for the modified base rating.
DH
That Pogo 2 is going to cost you what? $60,000? There are a LOT of boats you could buy and trick out with all the equipment to do solo Bay and Ocean racing for $60,000. You could very easily race on the Bay for two years AND do a SHTP for half of that, or even 35-40% of that.
I remember when Phil MacFarlane bought one. He told me that almost every time they went out, he broke something, and Phil is a good sailor. That gets expensive.
I remember when Phil MacFarlane bought one. He told me that almost every time they went out, he broke something, and Phil is a good sailor. That gets expensive.
You mean something like a past SHTP champion Wilderness 30 with most of the equipment still on it? I know where one of those can be located...
DH
I greatly appreciate all of your advice. Is there something inherent in the design of build of the Pogo 2 that makes it susceptible to breaking things? Perhaps it is built to be light (and fast), but that it does not like the heavier winds of the SF Bay.
With regards to the question of cost etc - I am looking at a few options, and trying to look at the total fitted out cost, and trying to not be surprised by the extras.
Thank you
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
Gregory's boat has been sailed twice to Hawaii, and Jerome's once. I don't recall any unusual breakdowns in either vessels in the passage. You would have to check with the boat owners but they all arrived in Hawaii in solid operational condition.
I haven't read all the thread above but my impression, for what this is worth, is that the Mini is great off the wind but struggles in the upwind legs of any of the around the buoy events. It would probably be in it's strongest element in the SHTP.
Brian
Tchoupitoulas
New member
More like an even older hard-chined SHTP winner... Dutch!