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New Rudder for Dura Mater?

Philpott

Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
New Rudder for Dura Mater

Went 'round and round about this back in 2014, but now I'm serious about a new rudder for Dura Mater. However, I'm looking for advice and maybe some suggestions. Here is a drawing sent me by Finco Fabrication in Santa Ana, regarding the rudder they would build for me:

View attachment CAL 227 SCHUMACHER FEB 1 2019 Model (1).pdf

It seems that Dura Mater has the rudder that is represented by the dotted lines.

Dura Mater in the yard.jpg

The confusion for me is that this rudder is referred to as a Schumacher design, while Cal 2-27s were designed by Lapworth. If I get this new rudder, will Dura Mater be fast like Surprise!, Summertime Dream and JouJou?
 
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I like the shape they're proposing. Did he explain why? However from that drawing configuration, it seems like it would stick out the back and way out of the water. Has he built a similar rudder for another Cal 2-27 or is this a rudder he's built before? You might want to ask Shad/Dark Horse what issue he had with his rudder when he went to install it a day or so before the SHTP. He and his friend were having a heck of a time because the post was just a bit larger than the old one. Also suggest you ask why he is proposing to use 304 instead of 316. It's my understanding that 316 SS is better quality (depending on its source). Not to scare you off from this -- I think it's great -- just thinking through some questions that I'd ask. Good luck! Don't forget pictures and updates on the progress :)
 
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Went 'round and round about this back in 2014, but now I'm serious about a new rudder for Dura Mater. However, I'm looking for advice and maybe some suggestions...

The confusion for me is that this rudder is referred to as a Schumacher design, while Cal 2-27s were designed by Lapworth. If I get this new rudder, will Dura Mater be fast like Surprise!, Summertime Dream and JouJou?

Rudder Inspection 101:
*Does water come out after a haulout?
*Are there any visible crack, particularly around the edges?
*Has the rudder ever been “lowered” (dropped is not a nice term) for inspection of the rudder post?
*Have you tried drilling two small holes (one at the top and one at the bottom) to see if water comes out? These are easy to patch.

There are basically two reasons to replace your rudder:
1. To address an aging/failing rudder (e.g. wet/waterlogged causing deteriorating internal welds, a corroded rudder post, etc.)
2. To improve performance (i.e. control, helm balance, etc.). The (improved) Carl Schumacher eliptical rudder designs have been proven to provide better performance. Even ALL the Express 37’s have gone to replacing their original rudders with the improved design.

As for going faster... well the FinCo website says:
“These newer designs won't make your boat actually go faster, but are designed to improve handling and directional control. This is most important when sailing very fast and can help prevent broaching and spin-outs. One of our most popular upgrades is the Schumaker rudder designed by Carl Schumaker for the Cal 40. This basic design has proven to be a very popular replacement on boats ranging from 32 to 45-feet LOA. If you own a broach coach you might consider a new "Schumaker" rudder even if your current one is still in good condition.”

Tom
 
Take another batch of oatmeal raisin to BMC, and ask Cree; he has a lot of thoughts on rudders.

And who built that compass fairing block?
 
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Thanks, Carliane. Another good story about Shad. I’ll ask about the difference between 306 and 316. And Tom, that last part about going faster? That was just wishful thinking. Maybe after the Corinthian I’ll shove my rudder through w a dowel and lay it out on E dock for a group looksee. We may as well make this an educational group activity.
 
Take another batch of oatmeal raisin to BMC, and ask Cree; he has a lot of thoughts on rudders.

And who built that compass fairing block?

Actually, Brad, several years ago Cree pulled Dura Mater so I could take a look. He went to lunch and told me I had until he was done to cogitate, then he had to pull a crab boat. Needless to say, everybody in the yard came by with an opinion. Paul Kamen was walking by, looking for some free parts for his kayak, probably, and said it looked fine to him. Cree said “Better safe than sorry, it IS 40 years old”. No pitting. I’ll pull it. We’ll see. And what’s a compass fairing block?
 
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I'm with Paul. I went through an expensive rudder replacement on Ragtime! and the improvement was marginal.

Unless the rudder is holding water and/or there are doubts about the rudder shaft, that money is better spent elsewhere IMO.
 
I'm sorry, I feel like this is my fault. When sailing with Jackie I complained about the rudder, mostly that under power it would pull hard to one side. I don't know enough to be helpful so I apologise. Forget what this lunatic said.
 
I'm sorry, I feel like this is my fault. When sailing with Jackie I complained about the rudder, mostly that under power it would pull hard to one side. I don't know enough to be helpful so I apologise. Forget what this lunatic said.

The prop wash / prop walk are what would cause the loading to one side under power.

If you couldn't get the boat to balance, reduce weather helm, then I would look to an improved design.

Unless there were water intrusion and corrosion the original one should be fine.
 
The prop wash / prop walk are what would cause the loading to one side under power.
.

+1

PJ: most boats with inboard engines and propellers near the rudder experience the rudder pull you describe. My concern, seeing the photo, is the drag from DM's exposed solid 3 blade (fixed) prop far exceeds the 6 second/mile handicap benefit, IMO. The draggy zincs half way down the shaft are slowing DM also.

(One problem with a solid cruising prop on a fast boat (like delivering a SC-70 home from Hawaii) is the solid prop can turn when left in gear under sail, and pump water into the engine cylinders, wrecking the engine. Happened to EVOLUTION a few years back. No worries, Jackie, this scenario would not happen on DM.)

Streamlined zincs are available. They should be mounted ~1/2" in front of the strut, for best fairing and to allow water into the Cutlass Bearing. Alternatively, racing to Hawaii, I removed my zincs before the race, and replaced them in Hanalei or Kaneohe diving under the boat. A galvanized bucket hung under the shaft can be used to catch any parts you drop.:D

Apologies for off topic...
 
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Thank you, Greg and Skip! Talk about prop wash/ prop walk! I went out Thursday just to be on the water for awhile. It wasn't a nice day at all. Usually I attach my Pelagic, but I wanted to just sail around with jib alone and didn't think I would need it. As I left Potrero Reach I was still in gear, the wind being light as it was, and as I got ready to unroll the jib we were headed dead onto the wind. I stood up, let go of the rudder and Dura Mater immediately went to starboard into a complete and tight circle. Over and over again. I couldn't help but laugh. If she were a dog we would be at that fire hydrant forever, and she was just doing what was natural.
 
(One problem with a solid cruising prop on a fast boat (like delivering a SC-70 home from Hawaii) is the solid prop can turn when left in gear under sail, and pump water into the engine cylinders, wrecking the engine. Happened to EVOLUTION a few years back. Apologies for off topic...

Sled, to add to your point. Sometime back and may not be exact but I remember Robert Flowerman telling me a similar issue if you are over cranking you motor trying to bled the fuel, to also close the raw water thruhull until she starts for the same issue.

Good luck Jackie
 
The block under your compass that makes it vertical, instead of the slight slant forward that the aft part your house has.
Hal McCormack says they can't be compensated otherwise; I need two of them.

Oh, that. Dunno. It came with my boat. It's made of wood.
 
How do we fire up that Ronnie Simpson bat signal? I'd love to hear more.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/159354-cal-2-27/
I put a new-design rudder from Foss Foam in So Cal on the boat ($1100) and that was a serious upgrade in control in following seas, though the stock rudder isn't bad. But after 40 years in salt water, the stock post is probably questionable for offshore work. Mine was, hence the upgrade
He did the same on his 2-29, so I suspect he liked it.
 
Winner of the Keel Weight Survey

The winner of the Dura Mater rudder survey is a new neighbor on E Dock, Nick Leal. He is the proprietor of Compass Canvas, with a workshop in Brickyard Cove and is the go-to canvas fella for Berkeley Marine Center. Nick is currently reconditioning his Erikson 32, re-installing his Universal 25 and a new transmission himself. Yes, pretty impressive. A photo of Nick with the Rudder Prize will follow soon.

copy of keel.jpg

Dura Mater’s rudder weighs 47.8 lbs. This according to my hotshot sailor friend who kindly brought all his professional tools to E Dock Sunday morning. He and the lovely Katherine were on their way to a local nursery, this being spring and all. She was very nice and even offered sympathetic murmurs as the visit disintegrated into a very sad conclusion: The rudder must be replaced.

G (we’ll refer to this sailor as “G” so that, if I am lost at sea my estate cannot sue him for malpractice) brought all his high tech equipment to the occasion. Okay, maybe not his highest tech equipment, but he brought two calipers. One looked like it was made of aluminum and the other one was a plastic model. But what do I know about the quality of instruments? Especially since results were the same across caliper.

First of all he tapped on the rudder with the metal caliper. He said that, ordinarily he would have used a quarter, except that he didn’t have one. I don’t even know what that means, but that’s what he said. And he had two rulers, one that measured centimeters, another one that measured inches, and he also used the word millimeters. Several four syllable words that mean different things.

G was very thorough. Impressively professional. I would go to him for a new fabrication of any part on my boat and even to fabricate surgical orthopedic replacement components. Maybe I would stop at trusting him with the neurological bits. Unfortunately G doesn’t accept my health insurance, even though it is private and expensive. But still. Here is what happened.

When he first arrived I told him how I had drilled a hole in the bottom of the rudder and that what came out were tiny and completely dry curly cues of white fiberglass. Then I propped the rudder up against DM and waited for water to drip out. It did not. No water dripped out, I assured him. That was good, said G patiently.

He laid out his tools on the deck beside the rudder, kind of like a surgeon. Starting at the bottom of the rudder (the good, dry end, remember) he tapped his way slowly up to the stainless tube shaft at the other end: Tap Tap Tap Tap (very intense scrutiny here) Tap Tap THUNK.

G looked at me but didn’t say a word, like a therapist who waits for you to say something revealing. Then he turned the rudder over and started at the bottom again. Very slowly: Tap Tap Tap Tap (still very intense scrutiny here) Tap Tap THUNK.

“Do you hear the difference?” Just like a therapist, waiting for me to admit my rudder’s inadequacy. I equivocated.

“Kind of. I kind of hear something. But what does it mean?” I wasn’t gonna make this easy. Rudders are expensive.

G had no judgement in his eyes. He just rolled the rudder over again and started with his tap tap tapping. Tap Tap Tap Tap THUNK.

“Alright! Yes! I hear it!” I broke down. “Stop!”

The Thunky sound was nearest the shaft of the rudder, where water had intruded over the past forty years. DM’s rudder is probably that old, and it had done a fine job steering her all that time. But over time, where the rudder post and the shaft had experienced the most strain, the fiberglass was compromised. Skip had told me to look for a “cottage cheese” effect, which are the bubbly parts at the top that showed where fiberglass shaft might fail at the stainless post.

G was sympathetic. He told me that a yard would most likely charge approximately $7000+ to build a new shaft and post and rudder for Dura Mater. A new rudder from Foss in Southern California, will cost significantly less than that. He offered a diagnosis with a qualification: I could probably still sail in the bay with this rudder.

“You have BoatUS, right?”

G said that he wouldn’t sail with it to Hawaii. Well, of course not. Who does something like that?

I asked about the Race around the Farallones and he considered for a moment.

“When is that, again? May? What is the lead time for Foss to fabricate this rudder? Six weeks?” I nodded.

G was wearing sunglasses, so I couldn’t see his expression.

“Well then,” he said. “I’d call them Monday morning.” And then he smiled to cushion the blow.
 
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Jackie, call me. . Carl S designed my rudder for me. I can tell you about how the design made differences in boat handling.too hard to type on this phone
 
Congrats to Nick on guessing DM's rudder weight within .3 pounds!

Knowing how often delays happen in the marine equipment field, especially spring and early summer, my recommendation would be to slap some fresh bottom paint on, reinstall DM's rudder exactly as it came out, and not give up weeks of sailing while waiting for your order from Foss.

Despite the delamination/waterlogged portion of the top inside, it's unlikely the rudder or shaft will break in the near future. From the photos I see no evidence of "Swiss cheese" in the visible portion of the stainless rudder shaft.

At some point, someone is going to have to answer what to do about replacing the old, cracked, black plastic washer that went around the rudder shaft between the top of the rudder and the bottom of the hull. Steve Seal would know.

About the only place to stay clear of with DM's 40 year old rudder is the windward side of the Farallons. Otherwise, go for it.

Ronnie is surfing and sailing onboard QUIVER, his Peterson 34, in Micronesia. http://sailquiver.com/
 
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Knowing how often delays happen in the marine equipment field, especially spring and early summer, my recommendation would be to slap some fresh bottom paint on, reinstall DM's rudder exactly as it came out, and not give up weeks of sailing while waiting for your order from Foss.

About the only place to stay clear of with DM's 40 year old rudder is the windward side of the Farallons. Otherwise, go for it.

Thanks, Skip. I'm ordering the rudder today. And, regarding steering clear of the windward side of the Farallons? That's excellent advice. Oh, wait a minute! I get it. Well, let's wait and see the forecast for May 11.
 
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