New Yacht Club in Town

[Philpott]

http://zephyryachtclub.com/
Listed on the YRA site.

 

[Gamayun]

Hmmm, an online yacht club with annual dues of $50-75 that gives reciprocity to any other club. I didn't go through the whole list, but they say they have access to yacht clubs in the bay area such as CYC, EYC and OYC. Half Moon Bay had a membership category that allowed members who moved at least 50 miles away to have a substantially reduced annual fee, but it was meant for those who go cruising or work away from the area for a time, and are likely to return. It was so awkwardly worded that we had to change it because people who were not members were trying to join because they lived 50 miles away and then showing up at other clubs. It'll be interesting to see where this goes. This might also be why SSS members are now getting some grief about reciprocity at some clubs...

 

[pogen]

I'm sceptical that real brick and mortar clubs would honor this.


Also, no officers, no regattas, no address other than a PO BOX.?

They will take your money though.

 

[Critter]

This might also be why SSS members are now getting some grief about reciprocity at some clubs...

Really? Have we ever had reciprocity? I've never dared to try it.

 

[pogen]

I don't think SSS has reciprocity with anyone; we don't even have membership cards. When clubs host our races they are usually nice and let us dock overnight and use the facilities. But I don't think you can use the bar or dock at the CYC unless you are a member of another brick-and-mortar club.

And I understand there are some snooty clubs like the St. Fancy where they don't have reciprocity with anyone other than a few others, the NYYC and the San Diego YC.

 

[Wylieguy]

There is a difference between the Yacht Racing Association (YRA) and the Pacific Inter-club Yacht Association of Northern California (P.I.C.Y.A.). The SSS belongs to YRA, but not PICYA. Most traditional - and a few non-traditional yacht clubs belong to PICYA. PICYA membership does not automatically mean full reciprocation at all member clubs. It is, however, through PICYA that your "regular" yacht club membership card is recognized both locally and in other parts of the world. There are several PICYA clubs that are genuine "paper" clubs - a quick glance at the list of Member Clubs in the annual "Yachting Yearbook" reveals that; they probably don't have much reciprocity with most local PICYA clubs.

As we all know, there are some yacht clubs that will accept SSS membership for food and drink or even guest berthing - and this has to be a verbal acceptance since the SSS has repeatedly decided to not have a membership card. And, as we all know there are many clubs that do not. Even among PICYA clubs there are varying levels of reciprocity and sometimes fees for docking with other PICYA clubs. Although it's bendable, the StFYC has a 50-mile exclusion zone for berthing, but a PICYA card will probably get you into the den for lunch.

The "Yachting Yearbook" has a "center spread" with a list of all PICYA clubs and their facilities. It also has a check off list for "fee" and "reciprocity" for each member club.

When it was first organized, SSS was not associated with either YRA nor PICYA; it thought of itself as an outlaw/independent organization that didn't need membership in either group. There were strong "anti" arguments. When SSS began to grow and add races to its schedule, it began to need yacht club race decks; early races were started from anchored members' boats or "just friendly" yacht clubs like the Oakland Y. C. So, SSS joined YRA - and since SSS was a genuine paper organization that didn't behave like yacht club, that took some doing. For a time SSS even sponsored a GGYC member so it could use the GGYC race deck.

YRA membership opens the door for racing with YRA clubs and for using YRA member club race decks. It has been used for entering races in other parts of the country as well, but that's on a case-by-case basis.

I'm skeptical that the new online yacht club has as much to offer. -- Pat

When I was Commodore, SSS played around with the idea of also joining PICYA - an offer was made from PICYA for the SSS to join. But, SSS members did not see an advantage to doing that, and it would have required an increase in fees. It would not have guaranteed reciprocity since the SSS lacks everything a traditional yacht club offers, except a bunch of friendly members.

 

[Allencoop]

For what it is worth I know that several "snooty " yacht clubs that offer reciprocal privileges to to all yacht club members. San Diego and Santa Barbra for example do not care what kind of club you belong to as long as you have a card of some sort. They like the revenue.. In San Diego you use to get 1 or 2 free nights then paid $30/day. Now, since their renovation, it is $60/day although the last time we were there for 3 weeks because our engine was being worked on and could not find a much cheaper birth anywhere near main commercial area, they forgot to bill me.. Emery Cove Yacht Club is something like $15/year and their card works just fine at most places. King Harbor Yacht Club on the other hand carefully checked for reciprocal membership and declined me because South Beach does not have reciprocal birthing until i lied and said I belonged to St Frances. They did not ask to see my card. At Vallerta Yacht Club having a card gets you a nice discount on their excellent food. It is a jungle out there.

 

[kapiib]

Wanted to note that some of the reciprocity restrictions actually relate back to potential financial and legal issues. Most (not all) yacht clubs are organized as 501 (c) (7) tax exempt organizations (social clubs). These organizations have specific restrictions on where their income can come from in order to remain tax exempt. (Basically the government felt it was ok not to double tax individuals organizing in order to "group recreate," because they have already been taxed as individuals, but if money starts to come in from other sources and the "group" begins to make money outside of what the same individually taxed group members have contributed, well then it becomes more like a business and the IRS wants their share of that "profit" to the group).

The law allows 501c7 organizations to receive up to 35 percent of their gross receipts, including investment income, from sources outside their membership without losing their exempt status. Within this 35 percent, not more than 15 percent of gross receipts should be non-member income. Because of this restriction, many clubs are careful to restrict what they earn from non-members. Clubs may have only marginal incentive to admit non-members. There are a lot of particulars, but you'll find in many club bylaws, that participation in a club sponsored regatta earns you the privileges of being a member for the duration of that event. This is done primarily to be able to classify any income derived from participants as member income so as not to upset the percentage balance.

A second consideration regarding reciprocity in California (and it is likely similar in other states, though I can't say for other countries) is the liquor license that is granted to a yacht club. California grants a special license (less restrictive and less expensive than public sales, like a restaurant) to "clubs." The license allows service of alcohol ONLY to members and their guests. It also allows minors access to the premises, as long as they do not consume alcohol. In a seminar with ABC, it was explained that reciprocity works because if both clubs are members of a regional organization like PICYA, then folks are considered members of the same club for license purposes. Maybe other linkages could be had through US Sailing or similar. Basically an establishment with a club license absolutely can not serve the general public; folks can not walk in off the street to be served, but if they can be linked through a common member organization then they are not considered general public. That’s how it was explained to me. For clubs who do catering, they have to get an additional license that covers that purpose.

 

[Philpott]

Wanted to note that some of the reciprocity restrictions actually relate back to potential financial and legal issues. Most (not all) yacht clubs are organized as 501 (c) (7) tax exempt organizations (social clubs). These organizations have specific restrictions on where their income can come from in order to remain tax exempt. (Basically the government felt it was ok not to double tax individuals organizing in order to "group recreate," because they have already been taxed as individuals, but if money starts to come in from other sources and the "group" begins to make money outside of what the same individually taxed group members have contributed, well then it becomes more like a business and the IRS wants their share of that "profit" to the group).

The law allows 501c7 organizations to receive up to 35 percent of their gross receipts, including investment income, from sources outside their membership without losing their exempt status. Within this 35 percent, not more than 15 percent of gross receipts should be non-member income. Because of this restriction, many clubs are careful to restrict what they earn from non-members. Clubs may have only marginal incentive to admit non-members. There are a lot of particulars, but you'll find in many club bylaws, that participation in a club sponsored regatta earns you the privileges of being a member for the duration of that event. This is done primarily to be able to classify any income derived from participants as member income so as not to upset the percentage balance.

A second consideration regarding reciprocity in California (and it is likely similar in other states, though I can't say for other countries) is the liquor license that is granted to a yacht club. California grants a special license (less restrictive and less expensive than public sales, like a restaurant) to "clubs." The license allows service of alcohol ONLY to members and their guests. It also allows minors access to the premises, as long as they do not consume alcohol. In a seminar with ABC, it was explained that reciprocity works because if both clubs are members of a regional organization like PICYA, then folks are considered members of the same club for license purposes. Maybe other linkages could be had through US Sailing or similar. Basically an establishment with a club license absolutely can not serve the general public; folks can not walk in off the street to be served, but if they can be linked through a common member organization then they are not considered general public. That’s how it was explained to me. For clubs who do catering, they have to get an additional license that covers that purpose.

ohhhhhh! I get it. Great explanation. Thank you. Regarding "... it was explained that reciprocity works because if both clubs are members of a regional organization like PICYA, then folks are considered members of the same club for license purposes", I wonder what implications that might have for clubs with YRA membership? Personally I would never (no no no) fake membership in a yacht club. But I know some people who have done so, and successfully.*

*see previous post

 

[Gamayun]

Wanted to note that some of the reciprocity restrictions actually relate back to potential financial and legal issues. Most (not all) yacht clubs are organized as 501 (c) (7) tax exempt organizations (social clubs). These organizations have specific restrictions on where their income can come from in order to remain tax exempt. (Basically the government felt it was ok not to double tax individuals organizing in order to "group recreate," because they have already been taxed as individuals, but if money starts to come in from other sources and the "group" begins to make money outside of what the same individually taxed group members have contributed, well then it becomes more like a business and the IRS wants their share of that "profit" to the group).

The law allows 501c7 organizations to receive up to 35 percent of their gross receipts, including investment income, from sources outside their membership without losing their exempt status. Within this 35 percent, not more than 15 percent of gross receipts should be non-member income. Because of this restriction, many clubs are careful to restrict what they earn from non-members. Clubs may have only marginal incentive to admit non-members. There are a lot of particulars, but you'll find in many club bylaws, that participation in a club sponsored regatta earns you the privileges of being a member for the duration of that event. This is done primarily to be able to classify any income derived from participants as member income so as not to upset the percentage balance.

A second consideration regarding reciprocity in California (and it is likely similar in other states, though I can't say for other countries) is the liquor license that is granted to a yacht club. California grants a special license (less restrictive and less expensive than public sales, like a restaurant) to "clubs." The license allows service of alcohol ONLY to members and their guests. It also allows minors access to the premises, as long as they do not consume alcohol. In a seminar with ABC, it was explained that reciprocity works because if both clubs are members of a regional organization like PICYA, then folks are considered members of the same club for license purposes. Maybe other linkages could be had through US Sailing or similar. Basically an establishment with a club license absolutely can not serve the general public; folks can not walk in off the street to be served, but if they can be linked through a common member organization then they are not considered general public. That’s how it was explained to me. For clubs who do catering, they have to get an additional license that covers that purpose.

Excellent explanation. And right on. Getting sideways with the tax man or ABC laws are big concerns.

 

[Wylieguy]

I think you're right about the ABC. When I was on the Board at the Sausalito YC the ABC had "ringers" who tested the alcohol license. At that time many SYC members belonged because they could park for free in the Sausalito City parking lot under a club sticker agreement and ride the Sausalito ferry to work. After work it was common to drop in and have a drink or two before driving home. The barkeep wasn't too careful about who got served and apparently the word got round. The bar did a brisk business. Then one day the ABC sent in an agent or two. In addition to serving patrons "off the ferry" guests at races were added in because the club didn't have a reciprocal sign-in and "sponsored i.d. stickers." The ABC, who is familiar with clubs asked for the sign-in book, but there wasn't one. The ABC let the club off with a warning, but it was a wake up. ( Soon after the City of Sausalito stopped allowing club stickers in their parking lot. Club membership renewal took a dive - but that wasn't related to the ABC.) I don't think the ABC goes further than the name of a yacht club on the sign-in book for purposes of liquor licenses, but it PICYA membership is a requirement, then signing in as an SSS member might be called into question.

 

[pogen]

I think I was too harsh on the StFYC. Here is their policy

The St. Francis Yacht Club has reciprocal relationships with most accredited yacht clubs and is happy to host their visiting members. The Club does employ a 50 Mile Guest Privilege Limitation Statute, which limits guest privileges only to reciprocal members whose yacht club or residence is located outside of a 50 mile radius from the San Francisco Clubhouse or Tinsley Island. Reciprocal members whose yacht club or place of residence falls within 50 statute miles of the City Clubhouse or Tinsley Island may be granted reciprocal privileges ONLY if they arrive via boat and register at the City Clubhouse docks. When reciprocal members wish to visit the Club, a letter of introduction must be sent on their behalf from their primary yacht club which confirms that they are a member in good standing and are eligible to be granted guest privileges. The letter of introduction should be emailed to [email protected]. The Club will require that reciprocal members settle their accounts on a credit card prior to leaving the Club.

So, I happen to live 38.721 mi from the StFYC, so I guess I can never go there. But if you live in Santa Cruz you are OK.

I might have been thinking of NYYC, they don't let just anyone in I'm sure. I remember wishing I could drop in and have a drink in their famous Model Room, and being disappointed.