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Offshore Tracking

E

Eyrie

New member
I got this email, which got me thinking about other options, which got me thinking that you SHTP'er are probably thinking about it too. If there's already a thread on the forum that covers this topic, please direct me to it. Is this a seminar topic already?

If not, please share your knowledge of whatcha got, whatcha like, whatcha woulda coulda.

Does anyone have one of these? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKNOzDWpbtc

Thx.
 
I do not think this device has any satellite communications ability outside of WIFI.

"The DataHub connects to your existing mobile or satellite communication device, so no additional monthly subscriptions are required."
 
I have been experimenting with InReach Explorer for the past six months. Seems pretty solid and it's a relatively low power solution. Unlimited tracking points for $24.95/month plus texting send and receive. Pairing with phone app Earthmate makes messaging simple. Sharing tracks with folks onshore over the internet has worked well. Weather information is available, but very basic so for those looking for grib files, it's not a good alternative.
 
I've been using the inReach SE since 2013 to send position information ashore so my Mom can see where Beetle is :) I set it to transmit at 10 minute intervals. The unit is mounted belowdecks in a RAM mount that positions the antenna up against a portion of the fiberglass deck that is solid glass (no core there) and it works well. I keep a USB cable loose at the nav station that is used to recharge stuff, including the inReach, as needed.

Attempting to send an SMS message over the inReach using its tiny buttons is useless - much better to pair it with an application running on a smartphone or iPad makes it possible to send SMS via inReach (which is using Iridium satellites).

I much prefer using SailMail on the laptop to send/receive email via the Iridium GO - which I've also had since 2013. That works a treat. As a fallback to Iridium I continue to use the Icom M802 SSB and Pactor III modem directly to SailMail - that works well, but not as convenient as running traffic through Iridium GO.

It's not clear to me what problem the PredictWind DataHub is trying to solve, as it doesn't seem to add much beyond instrument data logging and the idea of having PredictWind attempt to generate boat polars. The other touted use cases are otherwise trivially solved by typing in a position; perhaps it's useful as a time-saver? To use it offshore you'd need an installed WiFi-enabled satellite communication system so the DataHub could connect to it. It's likely the satellite system would already have GPS coordinates and UTC time, and possibly a tracking/position function as well. So what's DataHub adding to the mix?

And I don't use PredictWind - so there may be some integration functionality between DataHub and PredictWind that is handy, I do not have any awareness of how that might play.

Eyrie - what problem are you aiming to solve?

- rob/beetle
 
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I watched the promo video and agree w/Rob - instrument data logging appeared to be the only substantive add. Developing reliable polars while sailing solo has proven elusive, so maybe collecting reams of instrument data would help. But I'm not that motivated.

I bought an InReach Explorer for the 2019 LongPac and experienced the "tiny buttons" challenge. What do you like for an app to use it with an iThing? Steve mentioned EarthMate. We'll have an Iridium Go! for Pacific Cup but I plan to take the InReach as a backup.
 
BobJ said:
What do you like for an app to use it with an iThing?
Click to expand...

The only game in town I know of is the DeLorme Earthmate application available through the Apple App Store (and Google Playstore). inReach uses Bluetooth to connect to the iPad (and Samsung Note 8 phone on the boat), and then it's possible to utilize the iPad's onscreen keyboard to create an SMS message to be sent through the inReach out to Iridium. I don't use the Earthmate application for any other purpose than typing a note - it's supposed to do other things, but I'm only using the inReach as a transponder and an occasional SMS note.

A unique feature of the inReach as used on Beetle is that when the account is set up correctly a remote person *can* send an SMS to the boat and make the inReach start flashing a green LED, the functional equivalent of a ringing telephone. All other communications to the boat are not annunciated - I only learn about a message/email when I choose to check SMS/email. The Iridium GO also supports SMS messaging - but those are not annunciated unless I leave the Iridium GO powered on, which I don't.

- rob/beetle
 
tiger beetle said:
Eyrie - what problem are you aiming to solve?

- rob/beetle
Click to expand...

Just my curiosity. So tapping on the collective for data.

Another good thread might be about generating boat polars. A pretty handy tool if you're reaching for the pickle dish I'd say. Are there other tools available or do you have to write your own software?
 
For boat polars the key is data logging and taking notes - time, sea state, and sail configuration + sheeting angles. Note the time(s) you think the boat is going really well - that's what you're looking for in the sea of logged data. Extract the relevant data and start constructing the performance polar graph. It's mostly just a matter of: go sailing, get the boat going well, turn on the logging for maybe 15 minutes to capture what's going on, take notes, turn off logging and save off the log file. Adjust sails to some new configuration and repeat. Takes a lot of time to quantify all the possible settings - but I expect you already know exactly when Eyrie isn't going the best and wouldn't need polars at all to know what to do to increase performance. It's kind of fun to try and fill in gaps in the polar when out sailing on a particularly pleasant day - just how fast will Beetle go on a beam reach in 8 knots of wind with the kite up? what about with a jib up? It's fun to calculate VMG points for windward/leeward courses - though I never actually do windward/leewards.

For NMEA 0183 data logging I used Paul Elliott's NavMonPC running on the laptop, it's got handy logging features built in.

For NMEA 2000 (which I've moved to now that I've updated Beetle to B&G H5000 instruments) I'm using Actisense's NMEA/EBL Reader software to log and read the data coming in over their W2K-1 NMEA 2000 -> WiFi gateway, the logging software writes data out to the hard drive, just be careful about how much room is available on the drive! For the PC cartography I'm using Coastal Explorer connected to the NMEA 2000 network via a separate wired gateway (Actisense NTG-1), so logging doesn't interfere with the nav software. If you've got Expedition it has some very nice logging features, but I didn't feel up to spending another $1300 on software.
 
Two other tracking options to consider: PredictWind Tracker and Following Sea Yacht Tracker. Both work well with Iridium Go. A previous instructor colleague of mine, Bill Kenny, has been cruising up and down the east coast for the past several years and effectively using the PW tracker on his website: https://fetchinketch.net/where-are-we-now/
If you're going to have an Iridium Go on board, might as well use it for tracking too...
 
At this point I'm just planning to get an Inreach, specific model TBD. Plenty of food for thought in this thread, but I find all this wonky stuff utterly bewildering. Maybe I can figure out how to use my phone or Android tablet (which I've rarely touched since I bought it from Alan Hebert) to get around the tiny button problem, but even that seems like a long shot.

I'm also going to reinstall the M700 Pro SSB that I used in 2010, hopefully with a better ground plane setup. More mumbo jumbo.

Max
 
Hedgehog SatComs

I have both an Iridium Go! and Garmin InReach - both tie to phone or tablet via individual apps.
the Go! of course creates a WiFi hub that tethers to the laptop

I end up using the 2 systems for different things, partly based on the UI, but one could fully replace the other if needed.
I do like having redundant yet independent hardware interfaces.
And yeah, I have a plain old sat phone, because.

This is how I break down the InReach and the Go!-

InReach - SMS Messages and Tracking -
  • good text plan, tracker set up is very easy, Map Share integrates these so you can see what you said where.
  • easiest interface for these functions, IMO.
  • Thumb typing data entry is ok.

Go! - email, grib, weather data -
  • WiFi bridge to laptop + iPhone + Android Tablet.
  • mostly for data I don't want to thumb type, or needing a laptop interface.
  • Grib requests via Sail Mail or Predict Wind (depending on what's allowed)
  • Predict Wind works very well with Go! - compact files, good app interface

FWIW

DH
 
I have a similar setup to DaveH

1. I have an Inmarsat IsatPhone 2 phone, like this https://www.bluecosmo.com/inmarsat-isatphone-2-satellite-phone.html but the one time I tried to call David H at around noon first day of LongPac in order to test things I could barely hear him. I could never get a good signal. Now I guess that did work as sort of a proof of life, POL. From then on I used the Iridium GO! app for POL via SMS which was not what the SIs required.
2. The LongPac SIs required sending a custom POL email (which was hardest on the Iridium GO!). I did do this but was never sure they got through because I would receive "bounce" messages back in the Iridium Mail app. This is partly because of the way the Iridium Mail system works and partly because we were using reflectors to email multiple people with one address.
3. I could send a Quick GPS email (one button) which is super easy on the Iridium GO! but we didn't use that feature. I'd recommend thinking about that for Iridium GO! users.
4. Easiest on the Iridium GO! is sending an SMS text but you need your iPhone. For me this was the most reliable and fastest way to communicate with David H and the RC. When I really needed to communicate in near real-time then the Iridium GO! App was the only way to do it. At the end of the LongPac race I was so tired and not thinking straight. I could not figure out why I was going backwards and the RC was asking me when I would finish. I really panicked and felt awful for keeping these guys on the sea wall for days on end. If I had not been able to get some encouragement back from RC almost real time via the Iridium GO! App that I needed to just wait (it was still ebbing near Pt Bonita even though flooding elsewhere) I would have given up. VHF did not work even close to the gate. If I had an emergency situation, for sure Iridium GO! App would be my best bet.
5. My Iridium GO! has an external antenna, I think I need it.
6. There were only a few occasions on which I got less than 5 bars on the Iridium GO! The Iridium GO! does work like an old-fashioned modem though. The interface between phone, Iridium GO! and the end points can be very slow and quirky (checking modem status, waiting for connections .... can take minutes) and is not "smart". This is especially noticeable when trying to send email via the Iridium Mail App (which is different, separate and much worse than the Iridium GO! App) and when you are using the the PredictWind interface to the Iridium GO!. Sending a custom email (as required for POL) or downloading GRIBs can take a very long time and require monitoring, stopping/starting connections. Again, SMS and the Iridium GO! App just plain worked, and was fast - often just seconds - and never more than a couple minutes.
7. I only used my Garmin GPSMAP 86sci handheld for friends & family tracking (since my Iridium GO! was being used to direct tracking to SSS RC & Ray). The Garmin worked perfectly for tracking without a hitch. The Iridium GO! tracking worked OK, but with one weird glitch that put me miles from where I actually was. Ray has seen this behavior with Iridium GO! before. I am still trying to figure it out with iridium, but I don't hold out much hope.
8. My Garmin GPSMAP 86sci handheld was mounted on a RAM mount with charger on my steering pedestal and worked flawlessly. Easy to read screen too.
9. I think tracking is easier to setup for the Garmin devices because Ray has put so much work into that. I think more people currently use Garmin than Iridium but Ray could tell us that for sure. Next I need to work on sending email and text from the Garmin in case I had to.
10. PredictWind is pretty good about support. Garmin is non-existent. Iridium, time will tell. Next (I wont hijack this thread) I want to ask about the PredictWind plans folks use. I could never get a straight answer from PredictWind on which resolution models were supprted on which plans offshore and despite paying a fortune I could only get extremely low resolution GFS models.
 
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5. My Iridium GO! has an external antenna, I think I need it.
Click to expand...
Mandatory.

I want to ask about the PredictWind plans folks use. I could never get a straight answer from PredictWind on which resolution models were supprted on which plans offshore and despite paying a fortune I could only get extremely low resolution GFS models.
Click to expand...
Any PAID weather models are against the rules. Only PUBLICLY available FREE models are allowed. PredictWind Offshore Routing is also against the rules as the routing is done onshore, not on the boat. Programs like OpenCPN, Expedition, LuckyGRIB are allowed as the routing function is onboard.
 
This from Bob Johnston, returning from the Pac Cup with friends:

08/13/22 1220PDT, 38 09'N, 130 54'W, 398 nm to the Gate

Despite fresh GRIBs that show increasing wind on the beam, any breeze remains light and well aft. We've been motoring almost continuously for a couple of days.

I get their desire for diversification. I also get the connection between weather and the ark. But I think the GRIB experiment hasn't gone well and they should stick to the bagels. Maybe waffles? "You want GRIBs on your grids? Side of grits?" The weather GRIBs must just be for grins. The result is looking grim.

Returning from the 2006 SHTP I motored the last couple hundred miles, including through a glassed-off Gulf of the Farallones. Yeah, I know what the models show but could this arrival be a repeat of 2006?

ETA at the Gate is now moving into mid-late afternoon on Monday. Otherwise all is well.

Bob, Dave and Neil
 
Help me out here. I went by the SIs and this: https://youtu.be/Nl8cGyzakTE?list=PLilS16PFFp6SPQTo3pPeBwdvoO2tPdmbq&t=566 (at that time in the video). That was a very useful video, I know I will have to watch it many times to understand it all...

But when I was staying at the STFYC the night before the LongPac, I couldn't get anything but low resolution GFS from the PredictWind Offshore app and if I was offshore and not racing, like cruising or returning from somewhere like Hawaii, or even in an emergency for example, I think it would be good to have finer resolution models.
 
I love the InReach Mini... when set on low power... sends locale every 4 hours and is otherwise "off", it will transmit nearly a month. So no matter how I am doing mentally, the race and friends know where I am.

Sure it can be used for daily proof of life... but for that the Iridium GO+Sailmail is the trick as its both a POL email with fun local color (caught a fish... blew up a chute) and source of GRIBs. And maybe a few phone calls to the wife (Iridium app on my android phone for phone calls).

And if the InReach or GO go belly up, I have a backup.

Now if only the GO and its subscription was as cheap as the InReach... sigh
 
In a major concession to the realities and capabilities of offshore electronics, the SHTP R/C has reluctantly approved a new weather routing device:

Routing.JPG
 
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