Old Splice

[Lightspeed]

With no good TV on since Mash & Seinfeld, I decided to buy a line splicing kit and learn how to splice all my running rigging “to do” projects. I also wanted to learn how to make some soft shackles.

Splicing kit arrives, I grab some old sheets/halyards to practice and disaster. Even with YouTube help I can’t get the old core back through cover.

Ironically, the milk sheet thread shows up on the SSS forum. Hum? Maybe the old line practice cover has been miked so tight it can no longer be opened enough to be spliced?

A question for you Old Splicers? Is an old milked line splicerable? Or just wasting practice time on old line and need jump into the new big buck line?

 

[jamottep]

I know I failed to splice with old rope but did good with new rope ...

 

[BobJ]

I tried it but she didn't like the smell.

Oh, nevermind...

 

[Intermission]

With no good TV on since Mash & Seinfeld,

Have you looked at Grace & Frankie on Netflix? Tomlin & Fonda are quite the team.
If you haven't, start with episode one, season one. Each episode builds off the previous.
We now return you to our regular boat talk.

 

[AntsUiga]

My simple suggestion is to wash the used lines before splicing - mesh bag in washer with detergent and some fabric softener to soften the braids. Removing dirt and salt makes everything easier and more pleasant to use.

Ants

 

[Lightspeed]

Thanks Ants, even with the new line, getting the core back through the cover at the neck is going to take some practice. This is my first attempt at an eye splice for a A-Spin tack line. The outer cover that was inserted inside the core slipped back a little so the eye cover is a little puffy. It appears you really have to unmilk the cover at the neck a lot before attempting the splice. I know why we pay the riggers the big bucks now.

 

[Philpott]

I know why we pay the riggers the big bucks now.

Awww, Rick! That's a beautiful splice!

 

[Lightspeed]

Maybe, but Linda had to take the dog for a walk because I had to talk to it during splicing....

 

[AntsUiga]

Two to three decades ago, there were generic direction that were applicable to three strand and ropes with cores. There were splicing tools that were seemingly universal.

With the new high modulus materials, each maker has a video that is slightly different (for seemingly identical materials). It annoys me to no end.

Brion Toss has an excellent reputation in Port Townsend where his shop is located. In addition to the Rigger's Apprentice book, Brion also sells spicing tools for pulling braids and cores. In addition, he advertises a generic splicing guide that covers various new materials. I called him up and asked what would work for my needs on the Moore 24. So, an order was placed for overall book, splicing tool, and generic guide to modern ropes. The order arrived with everything except the generic guide for modern ropes. A follow up call revealed the guide was out of print, but a new one would not be available until an update was written. Continued annoyance on new materials.

So, if anyone has experience with splicing new materials, I would certainly appreciate any tips.

As far as an eye splice in a normal double braid, keep an eye on instructions for tapering the core or cover when reinserted. There is a length that is needed for friction so the splice holds, but the rest can be tapered so it goes in better.

There are numerous splicing tools and some work better than others. The Toss splicing tool is a high end version that slips full length where splice must go, has a tapered tip to make pulling easier as well as a loop to hold the pulled material better.

It is safe to say the paid riggers use better tools so the job gets done faster.

Ants

 

[AntsUiga]

In making splices, the core and cover can move independently. An early step is usually to tie a firm knot a couple feet away from the splice area to avoid the shifting reference point.

Splicing lines is like tying fishing flies. The first couple are more training efforts than well made results.

Keep going and pay attention to the details.

 

[AntsUiga]

Useful bit of information from the SSS seminar about rigging.

New lines/ropes are treated with sizing (?) for it to be slick and make the material easier to manipulate when splicing. Exposure to moisture is enough to make this treatment disappear. Rigger's have strong preference for new unused, and not exposed to moisture ropes.

Old stuff will have you fighting an uphill battle. Maybe be OK for traditional splices but new stuff is different.

Just wanted to add this in case anyone just reads this thread and not every other thread on the forum.

Ants

 

[Lanikai]

I just saw that yesterday, too. Didn't think I'd watch the entire seminar, but couldn't get enough. Thank you to the SHTP A/V team for putting these online!
Now I have to go back and binge the other recorded seminars.

 

[mike cunningham]

Two to three decades ago, there were generic direction that were applicable to three strand and ropes with cores. There were splicing tools that were seemingly universal.

With the new high modulus materials, each maker has a video that is slightly different (for seemingly identical materials). It annoys me to no end.

Brion Toss has an excellent reputation in Port Townsend where his shop is located. In addition to the Rigger's Apprentice book, Brion also sells spicing tools for pulling braids and cores. In addition, he advertises a generic splicing guide that covers various new materials. I called him up and asked what would work for my needs on the Moore 24. So, an order was placed for overall book, splicing tool, and generic guide to modern ropes. The order arrived with everything except the generic guide for modern ropes. A follow up call revealed the guide was out of print, but a new one would not be available until an update was written. Continued annoyance on new materials.

So, if anyone has experience with splicing new materials, I would certainly appreciate any tips.

As far as an eye splice in a normal double braid, keep an eye on instructions for tapering the core or cover when reinserted. There is a length that is needed for friction so the splice holds, but the rest can be tapered so it goes in better.

There are numerous splicing tools and some work better than others. The Toss splicing tool is a high end version that slips full length where splice must go, has a tapered tip to make pulling easier as well as a loop to hold the pulled material better.

It is safe to say the paid riggers use better tools so the job gets done faster.

Ants

I bought one of Toss's splicing tools. Can't remember the name but it's basically a fid with a little wire at the end which you can cinch up around the core to facilitate pulling through the cover. I have done a number of eye splices and it has worked out pretty well after a little practice. The milking part is tedious, you have to be pretty patient. Always used new line.

My neighbor saw me pulling a braided rope hooked to a tree in my front yard. He asked me what I was doing... me "milking an eye splice" Him: rolls his eyes "uh, OK" and walks away.

 

[Thom]

Always used new line.

My neighbor saw me pulling a braided rope hooked to a tree in my front yard. He asked me what I was doing... me "milking an eye splice" Him: rolls his eyes "uh, OK" and walks away.

If you are doing friction splices (where the friction between the lines holds the splice together, then always use new line. If, however, you are doing brummel splices, you can splice old(er) lines without too much problem. Again, though, the issue will be milking the polyester cover back over the double sized line.

I'm not suggesting polyester yacht braid is useless, but the new dyneema, spectra, vectran single braid lines are SOO much lighter and stronger that I'll never buy anything else for halyards again-but you need a cover for good holding in the jammers/clutches/cleats or else a bulk splice where it goes through the clutch. They are too slippery to make good sheets, though; so again a cover is useful. Pretty easy to bury the cover inside the single braid for a neat transition.

RE: milking--I found it useful sometimes, to block the wheels on my boat trailer and use the winch to stretch the core while I milked the cover over the splice.

 

[tiger beetle]

That's a very nice eye splice you made. Why not go with spectra core double-braid (Warpspeed, for example), strip back the cover so you're only splicing singlebraid at the shackle, and bury the cover back into the core at the crossover point? It can be a pain to extract the core from the cover where you want the taper to start - but this gives you an easy eyesplice as a luggage tag if you ever want to change out the shackle without having to cut the eye splice, the cover where you need it for handling, and the whole thing becomes a tiny bit lighter.

Definitely practice on brand new never used double-braid, splicing is far more difficult in old line. It's also more difficult to splice smaller diameters, I'd look at 3/8" - 1/2" diameters in inexpensive polyester for practice. I watched a rigger splice 2" diameter tug boat dock lines - it took several people, a corner of the building, and a big hydraulic pulling cylinder to get the bury to work so going too big doesn't help.

I've had good luck splicing old double braid polyester lines when end-for-ending sheets to move the shackle to the other end of the sheet. The area I'm splicing usually hasn't been loaded up much but it has spent a lot of time being stepped on, dragged about, collecting dirt and salt an sunlight. The keys for me were to soak the line to get salt and dirt out and make the line more supple - bucket of fresh water and detergent and agitate and repeat until the water remained clear, and lather up the core/cover being inserted with lots of soap to keep things slippery enough to move (and the soap will wash out later after the splice is done). One useful tip I got from Svendsen's rig shop was to tightly wrap a layer of plastic packing tape around a hollow fid when sending the fid in under an old not-very-stretchy cover - the tape makes the fid slippery.

I learned from a friend a long time ago that it was a bad idea to throw a couple of jib sheets loose into a top-loading washing machine - the sheets knotted up on the vertical agitator and strangled his washing machine. Definitely use Ants' mesh bag for containing the lines if you want your washing machine to survive!

I don't like my double-braid splices as I never quite get the amount of cover over the core right. Instead I'll go for a short knot when possible or when I don't want the bulk in the line resulting from the bury. Buntline knots work well, Stan Honey developed a variation for kevlar, Evans Starzinger developed a variation for singlebraid spectra.

A locking Brummel splice is great for singlebraid lines where the increased diameter is not a problem - I use this one most of the time.

- rob/beetle

 

[Lightspeed]

One useful tip I got from Svendsen's rig shop was to tightly wrap a layer of plastic packing tape around a hollow fid when sending the fid in under an old not-very-stretchy cover - the tape makes the fid slippery. - rob/beetle

I like the tape idea, I’ll give that a try. I do find if I run a needle fib through the center of the line and spend time bunching/loosing before attempting a splice it helps a lot. My best success has been with single braid dyneema. Opens easy and slippery. Soft shackles are the easiest after learning the button knot.

My Colligo furler came with ties I never liked, a line with a brummel loop. Too much distance between halyard shackle and jib head. I decided to make a two long soft shackles as an alternative. I found I could make them as long as I wanted by refeeding the center after the brummel splice. I also made a dyneema loop, then bent over itself, stitched and wipped. I hope to secure it in my jib halyard for the soft Scheckel loop.