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Replacement Rudder for Dura Mater

Philpott

Philpott

Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Okay, Pat and Mad Max have me nervous now about sailing outside the gate without having looked closely @ Dura Mater's rudder post. Which, of course, requires several hundred dollars just to lift and look. Sigh. At least I'm not worried (well, not much) about her mast falling down. Like Ronnie's boat. Sorry to hear about that, you boat breaker, you. I called Foss Rudders in Newport Beach and received back the following drawing and a price of $1100 for a new rudder/post. I would appreciate feedback about the options. Dura Mater has the old style rudder, the one drawn with dotted lines.
 

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Philpott said:
Okay, Pat and Mad Max have me nervous now about sailing outside the gate without having looked closely @ Dura Mater's rudder post. Which, of course, requires several hundred dollars just to lift and look. Sigh. At least I'm not worried (well, not much) about her mast falling down. Like Ronnie's boat. Sorry to hear about that, you boat breaker, you. I called Foss Rudders in Newport Beach and received back the following drawing and a price of $1100 for a new rudder/post. I would appreciate feedback about the options. Dura Mater has the old style rudder, the one drawn with dotted lines.
Click to expand...

That seems like a pretty good price, esp. if carbon is involved.
 
Jackie, Some thoughts and advice. I think Lanaki's reference to working on a rudder, as I read Ronnie's job list, is to the old rudder which he apparently is using as a spare? You might want to contact him about that. I don't think he makes reference to how the new rudder fits except to say it was delivered. I'd also double check about whether or not there's carbon involved in the new rudder. I doubt it - or not very much. Look at it this way: You'll own the boat or 10 years? A new rudder should be good for that period of time.

A new rudder is probably a good idea and price looks reasonable, but I'd like you to consider an emergency steering system sooner than later, too. Even a new rudder is failure prone, especially if you hit something. Trying to drag a bucket in an attempt to steer is something you don't want to do. Lashing drop boards to a spinnaker pole is someone's fantasy. I know we've discussed this in the past and your vane creates an issue, but I believe it is something you need to address if you're serious about offshore racing, especially a trip to Hawaii. You certainly have the boat to do that in.

You'll have to report the new rudder to the NC PHRF Committee, but I don't think they'll nick you any time for it. If there's no rush, you could even contact them and provide the drawing and ask the question. Contact info on the YRA website.

I'll keep watching this thread to see how things are coming along. -- Pat
 
Sorry to hear, Jackie, but Dura Mater will probably be better than new once you do this, and with less to concern yourself about. It sounds like a good price, too, but have you asked around about other places that make rudders? Just a thought. That's not in the realm of things I've had to deal with....yet.
 
Sorry, Pat's right; I was lazy and didn't read the link I posted. In this later post, he describes the issue with his new rudder. See end of the 2nd full paragraph. Given the age of the boat, decades of lumpy bottom paint and some degree of imperfection on the skeg, some degree of imperfection in the rudder...I'd be surprised if any custom rudder installation doesn't require at least a little fine tuning.
http://openbluehorizon.com/index.php/ships-log/128-march-3-departing-for-hawaii-soon.html
 
Jackie,

I think you'll be happy with the new rudder from foss.

Also, a 2-27 rudder can very easily be pulled, inspected and re-installs without the boat ever leaving the slip.

Good luck jackie.
 
ronnie simpson said:
Jackie,

Also, a 2-27 rudder can very easily be pulled, inspected and re-installs without the boat ever leaving the slip.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Ronnie. I wondered about that: I thought that I should be able to corral the rudder with a large netting or sheet and a bunch of lines, disengage it from above, and check it out . It is enclosed by a fiberglass tube, the top of which is above the waterline. As long as I don't lose the rudder in that mucky mud, I think that should be possible. I have been assured that it is not do-able that way. Ha! They didn't have the advice of the premier boat breaker/boat fixer. I hope your re-rigging is going well.

ps, I read that you had to grind your rudder down; would the use of delrin washers be helpful for that? I see that my rudder has some washers in there between the top of the rudder and the bottom of the hull.
 
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We just installed Jefa self-aligning bearings with Rags' new rudder. The bearings alone cost more than that Foss rudder. Jefa's stuff isn't cheap.

I coulda sworn we talked about having the tube inspected a haulout or two back, and you had that done - check your yard bills. If so, I'd say wait 'til it falls off and then have a grand time testing out your e-rudder. i.e. If it ain't broke, don't fix it (yet). Once you're into a rudder replacement project there's no turning back. Mine was a tad over eight boat bucks. YMMV
 
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I was assured that the "stuffing box" had been inspected. However, a prior receipt showed that Dura Mater has a dripless stuffing box, so I don't know what was inspected, if anything. As for your eight boat bucks' rudder: I do admire your ability to spend money without whining.
 
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Gamayun said:
Sorry to hear, Jackie, but Dura Mater will probably be better than new once you do this, and with less to concern yourself about. It sounds like a good price, too, but have you asked around about other places that make rudders? Just a thought. That's not in the realm of things I've had to deal with....yet.
Click to expand...

Speaking of which, Carliane, you've perhaps heard of Ragtime's high maintenance. She has a Gucci exhaust elbow. When the time comes, the beauteous Kynntana will surely deserve a Prada rudder. What's in Your wallet?
 
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Philpott said:
I was assured that the "stuffing box" had been inspected. However, a prior receipt showed that Dura Mater has a dripless stuffing box, so I don't know what was inspected, if anything. As for your eight boat bucks' rudder: I do admire your ability to spend money without whining.
Click to expand...

Jackie, I think the "stuffing box" and "dripless stuffing box" are part of the propeller drive shaft, not the rudder. I don't think you have a stuffing box on the rudder, just tube that extends from the hull's bottom to the cockpit. I think you should go ahead and get a few more quotes (always a good idea), but the original quote from Ronnie's source looks very reasonable to me. If you've got Hawaii firmly on your radar screen I'd get the rudder soon. If Hawaii is not firm, I'd stick with your original rudder for the time being. But, in either case I'd get busy with an ER. Seems I say that a lot.

As to fitting. Yes, some grinding might be necessary, but unless some modification has been done, it shouldn't be much. The spacers on your rudder shaft could be there for (1) making the shaft head fittings arrive at the proper height in the cockpit (2) lowering the top of the rudder since it might be rubbing the bottom. The next time you haul out and drop the rudder (something I think you should do each time your haul-out), check the hull above the rudder for evidence of scraping, gouging, that might indicate this. If the rudder floats, it's always being press up against the hull.

Check with Ronnie about whether or not your rudder floats. If it does, you can push it out at the berth and grab it went floats up at the stern. I'm sure your bottom diver would stick it back up during a cleaning job for free or for a small bonus. Dave the Diver stuck mine back in for free - it took 2 minutes of his time. If the rudder doesn't float it's a haul-out process. --Pat
 
Hi Jackie,

A 2-27 rudder floats and you are not going to take any water in through fiberglass rudder tube.

In fact the hardest part of the whole removal/ install equation is keeping the rudder under water because it floats so much. I would recommend paying a diver to pull/ install the rudder. No way you'll get it in and out from overhead without a bit of practice, ingenuity and kit.

No I never ground down the rudder. I ground down the approximately 10-inch long artificial skeg in front of the top of the rudder blade, as the new rudder was ever so slightly asymmetrical but enough to cause the port side of the foil to hit the skeg and inhibit turning more than 20 degrees. An overnight haul and hang, a grinder and some beer made it a pretty simple repair. When I told Don of from Foss of my fittest issues, he immediately tried to help and offer post-sales support. I would recommend his company to almost anyone that needs a rudder. He has molds for tons of blades and can easily make a shaft shorter or longer to fit your boat. At $1100 or whatever it was, I think it's cheap enough to justify pretty easily.

And if you drop a rig in Hawaii, you can find a new one in a field for $1200. Aren't our boats great?
 
Jackie,

If you decide to do it in the berth, talk with your diver. - especially about sticking a new one back on. I think it would be a good idea for you to shove the rudder out without any help. You do have an appropriate sized dowel (closet rod) to shove it down with, don't you. I'd even consider attaching a pad/cross "T" to the top of the dowel so you can put all your body weight on it if that's necessary.

I was actually surprised at how easy it was to shove mine out and how quickly it popped up and floated. I had a net around the rudder in case it didn't float, but if I ever need an emergency life raft I'll just pop the rudder out and tie myself to it.

However you might lose a rudder on an ocean race/trip (breaking off, bending, delaminating) you'll have to shove the thing out because it will interfere with your ER. A good exercise to see how you do while in the berth.

I agree that $1100 is a good price and I've heard good things about Foss, too. -- Pat
 
Speaking of that Gucci exhaust - how can I get one? That's awfully purdy (stainless, right?). I ask because I'm pulling the exhaust elbow on Kynntana tomorrow. Actually, it'll probably be the whole assembly, which I'll take to List Marine with their bigger tools to take it apart for me. After I repaired the throttle cable and got that increase in power because the throttle handle had been attached incorrectly (dang POs), the engine is now choking and I'm spewing soot big time. Ah well. One good deed seems to unearth other fix-it issues.

And about that diver....you know where to find one!! Don't hesitate to ask. This rudder business could be fun :-)
 
The Gucci-elbow-maker had a Yanmar 1GM10 and made one for his own boat, then offered them to others with that engine (via E-Bay). Yes, it's SS.

I can check if he got into the business on a larger scale and started making them for other engines. What make/model is your engine?


Next you'll want the chrome exhaust tip, purple underwater lights and dingleballs in the portlights. SSS boats are stylin'
 
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...purple underwater lights?! Now we're talking. It would make scrubbing bottoms a whole lot more fun.

My engine is a 3GM30, but now I'm no longer in the market for one. I replaced the mixing elbow yesterday with off-the-shelf (chrome, I guess?), so that'll be good for a while. I've heard one made out of SS would last forever . I might look into this in the future.

Alright, Jackie, how's it going on the rudder? I've been meaning to try out my Life Sling and its accouterment. We could pretend your rudder is an MOB and sling it right up. I have plenty of weights to counter its buoyancy. Really, what could go wrong...?
 
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