sat phone options

[Philpott]

Awhile back somewhere on this forum there was a discussion of buying a used Sat phone. Technology marches on: does anyone have advice regarding a purchase in today's market?

 

[tiger beetle]

Awhile back somewhere on this forum there was a discussion of buying a used Sat phone. Technology marches on: does anyone have advice regarding a purchase in today's market?

Hi Jackie - a lot depends on what you want the phone to do.

I've been looking at the satphone market lately, and my goal is a mobile handset with worldwide coverage, offering voice, email, and grib file transfer, handheld device that can be used off the boat (a handset, not a fixed installation), as well as use on the boat from belowdecks via an on-deck (external) antenna - the Iridium 9555 in a marine bundle is the most cost-effective package at the moment.

If you only require near-coastal coverage, then look at GlobalStar's products and satellite constellation footprint.

If you want to do any web-browser/internet surfing then skip the satphone and you're looking at much bigger, typically active, antennas offering higher bandwidth at greater cost and power consumption.

Most cost-effective Iridium airtime seems to be prepaid 500 minute cards good for 1-2 years (minutes expire after that).

Inmarsat's IsatPhone using their GEO hi-orbit satellites has issues as regards keeping the handset antenna pointed at the satellite.

Iridium's new Extreme phone is available at a higher price-point than the older 9555, offers very good handset waterproofness, and minimal functional improvements. It appears that Iridium is not planning to discontinue the 9555, but rather is offering the 9575 to attact a different market segment. If the 9555 were being discontinued, I would buy the 9575.

And anything using Globalstar or similar satellite constellations is limited to near-coastal areas. Great for the Bahamas, not so great for Hawaii.

With Iridium, if you want to send/receive email or digital files, you'll want to spend the money on XGate or Ocens service to manage file compression and dropped calls during transmission. Factor their cost into cost of the service if you want

So what do you want the phone to do?

- rob/beetle

 

[Philpott]

Hi, Rob, Thanks for all that excellent and timely advice. First of all, I want to be able to call in my coordinates twice daily from here to longitude 124 degrees 40'W and back. How about an older sat phone for less money with which I can simply use for that purpose?

 

[tiger beetle]

GlobalStar's products ought to work out to 200 miles off US west coast for that purpose.

I have rented satphones from the SatPhoneStore.com (in Florida) and had good luck with them. Here's their GlobalStar page:
http://www.satphonestore.com/tech-browsing/globalstar-nav.html

If you specifically want the phone for LongPac, then I'd seriously consider renting the phone for LongPac, and afterwards see if you want to buy one for use down the road.

- rob

 

[Wylieguy]

Jackie, If you're planning on the SSS TransPack,I think Rob's information is spot on. Renting a phone and learning to use it is a good idea. But, it you're just interested in the LongPac, remember you'll have a transponder attached to your boat as part of the package. Folks can keep track of your progress that way.

Anther, less expensive alternative, is a SPOT Satellite GPS Messenger or SPOT Connect. The SPOT will work for the LongPac - and you can use it for other ocean races - but not to Hawaii.

Pat

 

[pogen]

I rented a satphone from OCENS for PacCup, support from them was good, installation and getting software to work etc was gratifyingly easy.

http://www.ocens.com/

Since I only need the phone for a few weeks every year or two, and phone technology advances so rapidly, it seemed to make more sense to rent than buy.

I think we only burned about 70 minutes the whole trip, by the way.

 

[knickspant]

Pat, there won't be YELLOW BRICK by the Race Committee this year. Costs were prohibitive for the short duration according to experienced racers.

 

[Wylieguy]

GPS Transponders

Pat, there won't be YELLOW BRICK by the Race Committee this year. Costs were prohibitive for the short duration according to experienced racers.

As an "experienced race" I disagree. I think transponders play a vital role in both safety and information. They're a sure-fire way for the RC to keep track of boats and they provide a secure source of information for loved ones back home. I'm toying with the idea of sailing the LongPac this year again, and if they are not being used, I'll buy a SPOT (or similar) so Nancy can know where I am on a regular basis.

I frankly don't understand. Respectfully, Pat

 

[BobJ]

YB darn near bankrupted the last SHTP. Plus somebody (Matt last LongPac) had to run all over the Bay Area getting the transponders working. Not as simple as it looks, nor as inexpensive.

For LongPac, SPOT looks pretty good but you have to buy the unit PLUS a one-year subscription. Sending position information is a further fee. The club can't absorb all that for the fleet but if individual racers want to buy it, that should (may) meet the reporting requirement.

 

[Wylieguy]

LongPac Reporting

YB darn near bankrupted the last SHTP. Plus somebody (Matt last LongPac) had to run all over the Bay Area getting the transponders working. Not as simple as it looks, nor as inexpensive.

For LongPac, SPOT looks pretty good but you have to buy the unit PLUS a one-year subscription. Sending position information is a further fee. The club can't absorb all that for the fleet but if individual racers want to buy it, that should (may) meet the reporting requirement.

Bob, Here's the NOR requirement. I didn't find it in the SIs.

5.3 All entered yachts must be capable of communicating their location to the Race Committee on
a to be specified periodic basis for the duration of the race through SMS (text) or email. The
mechanism of communications is at the entrants choosing such as - but not limited to- an SSB or
Ham call to a friend that sends the text or email, SSB Pactor modem direct email, SPOT SMS,
SatPhone SMS, or any other means.

I am a licensed HAM and have the required Marine SSB licenses (boat and skipper). I also own a SSB radio with HAM capabilities (note: the reverse IS NOT LEGAL!), which I used in the 2010 PacCup. I also rented a SatPhone for that race. Neither of these is inexpensive!

A used Marine SSB with auto tuner runs from $500 (Kenwood TKM-707 for example) on up. The older units do not work with SailMail, but would communicate with someone back in the Bay Area if a listening schedule was set up. A Marine SSB capable of SailMail (Icom M802) runs around $2,000 plus tuner (AT-140 - just the cable to connect the two is about $80.) Unless you are prepared to install this equipment yourself, that can run up into the $100s. Then there's the antenna (backstay = rigger/insulators) and ground plane. And don't forget the Pactor modem so you can hook up with SailMail, which you have to subscribe to. And the battery(ies) - as you know a SSB draws lots of amps on transmit. And means of pumping that juice back into the battery. You're talking big bucks for the SailMsail option. Of course the plus is being able to receive GRIB files with the proper transceiver/modem. But for the LongPac? Yes, definitely for Hawaii!

Oh, and don't forget the required SSB FCC licenses, which add up to more than some might think. (Don't make a mistake in filling the form out; there's no refund. and, tick off ALL the electronics, including those you don't plan to install at this time. You never know, and adding something in later on begins the costs all over again.)

SSB radios, modems, and computers like to stay dry, too. Really dry!

SatPhone rental is also expensive and if you plan to use it for GRIB files, there's the modem and computer again. Purchasing a SatPhone is very expensive and unless you're going to use it often, renting is probably more sensible. Be sure to include a compression program since GRIB files are large and if you lose the satphone connection, you want a program that will pick up where it dropped off rather than begin all over again.

For someone just doing the LongPac the SPOT or SPOT Connect begin to look pretty reasonable. With the 1-year contract you can cover any of the SSS/OYRA/BAMA/Monterey races through next May as well. The SPOT satellite network won't get you to Hawaii, but it will work for all the other Pacific inshore races. It doesn't require an FCC license, will transmit limited messages, and you can take it with you when your boat sinks out from under you.

I wonder how much the SSS would have to charge racers to rent GPS tranceivers when compared to any of the above? If you're planning on Hawaii (a couple of dozen each race), then investing in the proper communication equipment now makes perfect sense. You can screw up 200 miles out instead of going dark for a week. Working the kinks out in your berth compared to something going wrong halfway to Hawaii is not an equal equation.

It looks like a patchwork system at best, with weak links (that friend who's listening for your SSB transmission) and for folks just beginning today a lot of work and practice to make sure things work properly from their end. If you're planning on a new SSB, then get busy soon with the licensing process. Sequester is not a word the FCC is ignoring - ask any HAM who's dealt with them recently.

Pat

 

[BobJ]

It's still a little soon but it would be interesting to know how LongPac skippers plan to report in.

I took my SSB last time but the backstay connection blew off and it was too high (and too rough) to attempt a reconnect - first time that's happened and it won't happen again. I was out of VHF range for much of the race and didn't know what was going on until the photo boat told me as I approached the finish line. Kinda cool actually, but I'm weird that way.

I'm thinking I'll rent a satphone if I go this year - pretty cheap for a week's rental.

 

[Wylieguy]

It's still a little soon but it would be interesting to know how LongPac skippers plan to report in.

I took my SSB last time but the backstay connection blew off and it was too high (and too rough) to attempt a reconnect - first time that's happened and it won't happen again. I was out of VHF range for much of the race and didn't know what was going on until the photo boat told me as I approached the finish line. Kinda cool actually, but I'm weird that way.

I'm thinking I'll rent a satphone if I go this year - pretty cheap for a week's rental.

Bob, A SSB antenna isn't brain surgery or rocket science. It's a piece of wire. We used a 24' piece of scrap yard insulated copper stranded wire for the PacCup. Tied one end to a lightweight halyard and put the other end through a hole in the deck and attached to the AutoTuner. Our "spare" antenna was another roll of stranded wire just in case. We planned to lower the antenna when not using it, but after day #2 just left it up. I think the backstay is one of worst/complicated/expensive antennas possible It's stainless steel. It supports the mast so is important that way. It's near the cockpit, so the insulator needs to be above arm's reach, which means a cable connecting it to the tuner running down and through areas occupied by steering equipment, mainsheet systems, and people (well, one person if it's the SSS TransPac - or whatever we're gonna call the race next time).

Bore a hole in the cabin roof near the shrouds. Run an insulated 14 gauge wire up about 24' on a light halyard inside the shrouds to a spreader. Put the tuner under the hole and connect the antenna. Connect the SSB-Tuner cable and you should be good to go.

If you need an emergency antenna, hook a wire to the tuner and haul the other end up somewhere. If your mast is down, just toss the wire over whatever's sticking up. It's insulated. Always take a 100' or so of insulated 14 gauge (12 or 16 will work) wire. You'll have more emergency antennas than you could (almost) possibly need.

But, and it's BIG but, don't touch it while transmitting. RF burns flesh. If it's you alone and if you're inside the cabin while transmitting, the antenna's outside somewhere so that shouldn't be a problem.

Pat

 

[BobJ]

All true but the insulated backstay is already there and the connections made it through two SHTP's and a trip home. I just did a crappy job of hooking it up for the LongPac.

Won't happen again.

 

[Wylieguy]

Bob, I'd still toss a roll of insulated wire in the tool bag just in case. I think I paid about two bucks at the junk yard and it weighs half a pound or less. At least in the PacCup the penalty for not checking in will cost you any chance of placing. Pat

 

[Jonathan Gutoff]

And then there is this:
http://www.inreachdelorme.com/
It uses Iridium not Globalstar.

 

[Critter]

It's still a little soon but it would be interesting to know how LongPac skippers plan to report in.

At this point I'm leaning toward satphone rental. But the Inreach dealie looks intriguing.

Question from a Luddite: with a satphone can I text-message my position report directly to the race committee, or do I have to call the uxorial unit and have her email the RC? I don't think she'd have much enthusiasm for that job.

My crew works at Google, so I'm kinda depending on him to get us up to speed on all this stuff. Gives me a headache.
Max

 

[Jonathan Gutoff]

And a competitor to Inreach:
http://cerberus.briartek.com/
They have rentals also.

 

[Wylieguy]

The problem I see with this communication plan is that it's a hodge-podge of methods, most of which depend on a 3rd party to relay information. Sometimes that 3rd party needs to be on a boat (SSB) or a licensed HAM on watch. Sometimes it's a relative/friend who's going to receive a phone call. All will then contact the RC with the info, I guess. I don't see the RC receiving anything directly like they did with the transponders. I know it's only 3 or 4 days (unless someone decides to stay out and wander around testing equipment, etc. - that's happened), but if it's a prediction of next year's SSS PacPac (new name!) I have even more serious doubts.

 

[BobJ]

Or we could go back to the way it used to be - head out the Gate and call on the VHF when you get close enough to Hanalei. If you're truly in distress you have an EPIRB. No GPS's back then but everyone got there eventually.

And we're not changing the name - what's up w/that?


Re the DeLorme unit, the link says it's $300 for the hardware (vs. $100 for SPOT) and the subscription is more expensive too.

Max, some sent texts w/position info in the 2010 SHTP so it's possible - HECLA sent a single text with several positions while he was com boat early in the race. The main thing is not having the R/C trying to field a bunch of phone calls directly from skippers.

 

[Tchoupitoulas]

I was planning on sat phone rental for voice check ins, and hopefully playing with the connection to laptop, sailmail, macEnc, gribs etc.

But seriously, if the SPOT or DeLorme system satisfies the MEL for 2013 LongPac I need to know!