Should a SH boat be allowed to enter in the DH division?

[Travieso]

Logically it would be a disadvantage to sail SH alongside a fleet of DH. But there is an obvious reason why someone would want to do it. In addition to the individual races, the society scores season standings. If for some reason, you find yourself without crew for a race, but still want to race in the DH division for season points, should you be allowed to do so?

We do already allow it for the Vallejo-2 race, should it be restricted in the races with both SH and DH divisions?

 

[BobJ]

I think Vallejo 1 only counts towards the SH season standings and Vallejo 2 only towards the DH season standings. In other words, a single-hander racing the Vallejo 2 doesn't affect any season standings.

In your poll I voted yes, because anything that encourages single-handing in SSS is good.

 

[Phil MacFarlane]

I vote yes also. I've done the double handed Farallones single handed and as far as I know it was ok.
For years I have raced the SYC crewed races single handed.

 

[ronnie simpson]

i vote yes. me thinks this poll might be pretty one-sided...

 

[Critter]

I voted yes because there was no in-between option. But it's a qualified yes. My opinion, after some thought:

1. A doublehander chasing season points shouldn't be penalized because his crew had to cancel at the last minute, so I'd favor letting him stay in the DH division for one or two races per season.

2. A singlehander should not be allowed to give himself the challenge of racing solo in the DH division for a whole season. Such a move would reduce numbers in the SH division, which is already small in most races, and it's a bit of an insult to DH racers. As far as I know, nobody has actually done this, so it may be a moot point.

As I read it, SSI 9a requires that two people be on board in the DH division, but the rule is waived for the Vallejo 2. I propose that DH entries be allowed to sail solo in any two races in a season, including Vallejo, but not in the LongPac.

Max

 

[Tchoupitoulas]

It's hard to imagine when singlehanding could be an advantage but Max's suggestion of 2 races excluding longpac seems spot on to me.
Stephen

 

[Jonathan Gutoff]

Max's idea is ok with me.

 

[ajgoldman]

I think there needs to be more incentive and reward for singlehanded entries in the SH division.

Maybe more races that are soley SH. The wealth of knowledge gained from the SH division is what we are all about. I understand the skipper is still sailing SH in the DH division, but I'd rather see them in the SH division.

AJ

 

[Wylieguy]

Single/Double Question

I didn't vote because I don't think either a "Yes" or "No" would represent my viewpoint. If an overall score is what's desired, I go with Max. But, I guess I represent a different angle than some SSSers. I don't sail SSS races to win an "overall" championship; I'd even opt out of that competition if I could. I sail SSS races for fun. Sometimes it's fun to sail alone; sometimes it's fun to sail with someone along as a co-skipper (which is what I think doublehanding is). I'd like the option to decide, without having to count. Of course the Vallejo 1 and Farallones Races are special, as they have always been.
Pat Broderick "NANCY"

 

[Ergo]

I was going to stay out of this but.......... The question was resolved eqitably, this time, under the existing rules so what happened this year is moot but, I'm a big NO as for as changing the rule for next year.

I think it's a very bad idea to change a rule as simple as 1 = 1 and 2 = 2 to accommodate a competitor's ambition to win. The rules aren't there to make racing difficult. The rules are there to make it possible to safely race very different boats against each other.

Thankfully, I won't be on the board next year and I certainly won't be in contention for top honors in any year so I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist.

Last year, we had an entrant who wanted to race singlehanded with his child and his child's nanny on the boat. He thought he had a reasonable case for 1 = 3. So sure, 1 = 2. Why not?

Bill Merrick

 

[tiger beetle]

I think it's fairly simple - a doublehanded division is for two on a boat, the singlehanded division for one person on a boat.

It makes no sense to believe that a singlehander can sail in a doublehanded division - the singlehander doesn't meet the basic division requirement of having two people on the boat.

- rob/beetle

 

[Travieso]

Healthy debate...

I do think a bit of debate is healthy. As Ergo suggested, for my specific case I'm fully delegating on the board making a determination on the outcome of my score and I will accept without objection.

Going forward, however, we should strive for a minimum set of rules that are unambiguous in their intent.

Already for Vallejo-2 we do allow a SH to get a score in a DH division, which counts towards the DH season scoring. As such, neither a safety nor a performance argument is valid. From a safety perspective both SH and DH entries start and race simultaneously on races with both divisions. So how they are scored makes little difference to safety. From a performance perspective, I think we will be hard pressed to justify how a SH is advantaged over a DH entry.

Should this be made the single rule? Its not as crazy as some have suggested.
SH = 1
DH <= 2

At the end of the day this is a racing club. We sponsor races, not cruises. Most of us are here for the fun and challenge of shorthanded 'racing' our friends. We can shorthand sail any time we want without the club. As such, the scoring is very relevant to what we are as a club. Some, don't care about the season standings, others don't care about individual race scores and others might not even care about any results. That is all fine, but the club still offers individual races and season scores, and it should provide a consistent set of rules of implementing both from one board to the next.

 

[Ergo]

Thanks, Traviseo but I'm a bit confused. You suggest that we strive for "a minimum set of rules that are unambiguous in their intent" but you want to change the meaning of single and double. Double means 2. You are suggesting that double means 2 or 1. How is that different than singlehanded? How is that less ambiguous than a doublehanded entry shall have two people on it.

To say that a JS 9000 is disadvantaged with one as oppossed to two aboard really beggers belief. The boat is a dinghy with a keel. The absence of 150 to 200 pounds of ballast would, if anything, be an advantage. On an IOR boat maybe not so much. The JS 9000 is an exotic design. It's a very difficult boat to beat under the existing rules and rating system. Is it really reasonable to jimmy the rules so that its skipper also has the option of racing single or double regardless of how many bodies are on the boat?


Bill Merrick

 

[Travieso]

The problem is that today it is not that black and white. The 2=2 rule is arbitrarily waived for Vallejo-2 to mean <=2. I think it has always been waived for Vallejo-2 as the logistics to get crew to Vallejo can be challenging, or no one ever cared enough to enforce it (for Vallejo or any other race) as there is no advantage in going singlehanded.

And I can live with that rule (and its exception for Vallejo), its just that I know it hasn't been enforced (at least uniformly) in the past.

This is not about boat type. Clearly the JS was designed for shorthanded crew, so are the Minis, WylieCats, etc.

Cheers

 

[Culebra]

Oh, this is sort of a tough one. I voted 'No' because, like Beetle said, these divisions are defined as either single or double, plain and simple. However, I think it's a kick to race "shorthanded," where solo and DH sailors are pitted against each other, racing in the same class as veritable equals. You can do this in the OYRA in their Shorthanded Division, and some of us SSS'ers have done just that quite a lot.

Paul/Culebra