Split Starts for SH and DH Divisions?

[Lightspeed]

To follow-up on the Corinthian thread, I have had several suggestions for different start times for Singlehanded and Doublehanded Divisions. For this discussion here are some numbers. All of these numbers are of racers who actually started not DNS, and include DNF.

The 1997 Corinthian race had 21 SH and 29 DH. This year’s 2016 Corinthian had 21 SH and 75 DH

Earlier year’s season totals are problematic without Jibeset records. However, for the 2014 & 2015 season totals below I removed all singlehanded races from the overall, (SHF, LP and SHTP).

2014 Season totals 556 racers - 120 SH racers over 5 races 22% and 436 DH racers over 5 races 78%
2015 Season totals 612 racers - 150 SH racers over 5 races 25% and 462 DH racers over 5 races 75%
Given these numbers, and acknowledging SH racing require a little more room and time to react, SH racers are way outnumbered at the starts and the rounding marks.

Several racers have suggested we split SH and DH starts with all DH starts first. This will work but stretches the race start out by 25 min with 5 min rolling starts. We could shave that in half if the DH had 3 min rolling and SH 5 min… Another option is combine several small SH Div starts….Thoughts? Ideas?

 

[Daydreamer]

When I first became involved with the SSS a couple years ago there was a request to move the non spin, higher PHRF boats up in the starting order to give them more time to finish. It seems to have worked out well.

No one could have really predicted the wind hole at Blossom and I don't think any changes in the starting order would have prevented the pileup, just the individual boats there at the time.

The incidents have me digging into the RRS in an effort to improve my understanding of the rules.
Personally I think a review of the RRS, or a seminar, would be in good order.

 

[BobJ]

The collisions have to stop. The only two races where they've become a problem are Round the Rocks and the Corinthian, which have conventional starts (vs. the 3BF) and large numbers of boats. Those two races have a high percentage of doublehanders - the core group of singlehanders is about the same for all SSS races.

At our meetings we've had rules discussions and how-to-protest discussions. It doesn't seem to help that deer-in-the-headlights look I see on a skipper's face when he has to make a decision. I think our races attract a larger number of skippers who don't normally race, and that's good. But IMO we've reached the point where the race itself has to be structured to accommodate them.

I don't think you can shorten the sequences to three minutes - that causes more problems around the starting line, violates the RRS, etc.

In the Corinthian, I noted that a single start containing ALL the singlehanders would have been one of the smallest groups to start. You'd have to ask Dave Morris (usually the only SH Multihull) but the Multihulls could stay as-is. Then at most 2-3 singlehanded starts would do it.

As much as it kills me to say it (the 2001 or 2002 Corinthian was my first SSS Race) - I'm not participating in these two races any more unless things are changed.

 

[skatzman]

The stack up at Blosom Rock was unique to the wind filling from the back and the ebb holding lead boats from rounding. Nothing in the start order could change that. But the start order and grouping of large numbers of boats into one start should change. 29 boats starting together in Sportboats (J) was not good.
Even given the more forgiving attitude of the SSS racers it is unfair to everyone to have the slow boats starting before the faster boats. All boats suffer when faster boats have to play through the slower boats. The single handed racers should have their own starts. Single handed starting with double handed is like racing go-karts and dragsters on the same track.
I suggest the following start order: multi hulls, phrf<108, sport boats, phrf 111-159, phrf>162, non spin, single handed. Within this suggested sequence more groupings could be made.
The 5 minute rolling starts should continue. With the upcoming race being 23 April there should be enough wind machine action to get all boats around the course in good time.
The SSS has created a very popular format of races. It causes thought that a group dedicated to Single Handing now puts on the most popular races for those of us who love double handed sailing. The SSS remains one of the best organizations for holding races that appeal to whole spectrum of sailors, from people just trying it out to some of the best in the Bay. Keep up the good work. SDK

 

[Lightspeed]

SI's can be amended upto the start of a race, however the sooner the better. I like the idea of faster boats first and we could try Multi first and flip to J,G,F,E,D...I think SSS had this once upon a time..Anyone remember how that worked?

 

[solosailor]

It worked.

 

[Critter]

We need to define terms here. The flag sequence has always (well, for 10-15 years) been C D E F G J. But for a long time those flags were assigned to slow boats first, fast boats last. Recently we've reversed the starting order of boats, but the flag sequence stayed the same. (As a mid-range PHRF boat, my flag was formerly E. Now it's F.) So I'm not sure what Rick is proposing.

 

[Lightspeed]

Max, thanks for the clarification. I was just trying to shorten my typing with the existing Div letters. Multi first then faster to slower boats with no spin last. Div letters can be corrected

 

[FUGU-W30]

I agree the Corinthian and RRR need to have fast boats first to maximize room and minimize chances for pileups, however none of the other races on the SSS schedule would need this set up as there are minimal opportunities for stack-up at roundings in the Farallones, Drakes Bay, HMB, or V1/2. If I remember correctly the slow boats first approach was done to give the slow boats the best chance to finish, and as many of the races after RRR are historically light air affairs wherein the slow boats have difficulty finishing i think we should retain the slow boat first approach in these races. I would submit that one size does not fit all, we should tailor the starting methodology to match the situation.

 

[BobJ]

Agreed - Corinthian and Round the Rocks are the only races that need to be reversed.

 

[Critter]

I agree with Bob and Chris.

 

[Philpott]

I agree with Bob and Chris and Max. DM agrees with me.

 

[skatzman]

Good point. Revise only Corinthian and Round the Rocks. And maybe the Vallejo 2. Just the doublehanded start in the Vallejo River.

 

[Lightspeed]

OK, unless I hear a reasonable push back I am inclined to revise the RtR SI's for a test run as follows:
C Mulithulls 10:30
D Sportsboats 10:35
E 108 and Under 10:40
F 111 to 159 10:45
G 162 and Over 10:50
J non-Spin 10:55

 

[BobJ]

Rick, the other thing to consider as you watch the entries is to give the Express 27 fleet their own start. This was suggested at the Skippers' Meeting for the Corinthian Race, and had it been done it would have made that 30-boat Sportboat start into two 15-boat starts. This would have been better for them and better for the several singlehanded Sportboats who had to start with them.

Round the Rocks is another race in the Express 27 fleet's Long Distance Series, so they will again be racing "competitively." This is a great fleet and it's cool to have them in the race - we can make it even better by giving them their own start.

 

[algwind]

Fast boats first should result in fewer close encounters, whether rounding marks or just crossing tacks. Similarly, DH before SH should create separation. The downside, if I can speak up for slower boats (and singlehanders), is that much of the fleet is "gone" by the time you start. With faster boats first, one can feel, and the perception will be more often correct, that different fleets are sailing in different races.

As a first step, I would suggest that consideration be given to extending the time limit for slower boats (or shortening the limit for faster boats). A more radical approach would be to have different courses for some of the fleets.

I will support Rick in whatever decision he comes to for the upcoming Round-the-Rocks Race but further suggest that we plan for a brainstorming discussion during the awards meeting for R-t-R on May 4th........alg

 

[Lightspeed]

Al brings up a good point. Slower boats should have a voice in this and I would like to hear from that side of the fleet before any changes. Also Bob’s point about the E27’s expanding with us is good and maybe a separate start for the E27 fleet would help.

Another option is a hybrid of both below with C&D fleets spreading out pretty fast after their starts and then leaving the rest of the starts as normal.

C Multihull
D E27 & Sportsboats (this could be split into two starts if E27 get above 10?)
E Non Spin
F 162 & over
G 111 to 159
J 108 & under

None of these ideas address the small SH to large DH entries in the 111 to 159 and the 108 and under fleets. Keep the comments coming, RC serves the racers and everyone should have a voice.

 

[skatzman]

@BobJ and Rick, Thanks for the good word about the Express 27 fleet getting maybe their own start. We try to be mellow but we are competitive. SDK

 

[Submarino]

All good ideas. As an Express 27 SH, I would be really bummed if I were split from my Kin, the DH Express 27's.

The way I saw this race is that we would have had pile up problems even if all entries were DH's.

Having a Downwind, Large fleet, early Buoy rounding will cause congestions. Given different or changing wind conditions, I believe we can still have pile ups even with altered starting orders. We can't change the Fleet size, but we can change the "Downwind" part and/or "Buoy" rounding part.

What would happen if we went farther up wind (like Blackaller first) to stretch out the fleet, or rounded an island (TI) to give us more room?

JB

 

[Philpott]

Slower boats should have a voice in this and I would like to hear from that side of the fleet before any changes.

Deft use of language, Rick! "that side of the fleet" instead of "that end of the fleet".

Since you ask, Dura Mater is a slow boat whose skipper probably won't get a lot faster. While I appreciate my local yacht club's inclusive attitude, as a laggard in races I have experienced the following situations upon returning toward the end of the race: 1/ the t shirts were all gone; 2/ the race committee radio was turned off before I finished one night when it was very very foggy and I had forgotten to mark the entrance to the marina in my vhf; 3/ the race committee did not wait to record my finish; 4/ I could hear the Race Committee repeatedly advising the small boat to NOT collect the mark because DM was still racing (that was disheartening); and finally, 5/ The food was all gone at the end of the day. Jeesh! Good thing my boat has a healthy self-conception.

During Singlehanded Sailing Society races none of that happens. I always get a tshirt, the RC doesn't leave until everybody finishes, even up on the race deck I know from experience that our Race Committee appreciates perseverance, enjoys its own company and doesn't expect to finish early, and there is no yacht club food at the end of the day anyway.

Dura Mater is usually just a bit behind Tortuga, sometimes just a bit in front of Tortuga, and there are also usually a few sailors new to the club who got lost on the course or are wandering around looking for the marks. So even if DM and I start last, there is often some company nearby. And that is part of the fun of the SSS. Do whatever you think needs to be done if it will keep people from crashing into each other. Maybe require bigger and permanent fenders? And thanks for asking.