SSS and NCORC

[Jonathan Gutoff]

On the Round the Rocks thread there was some discussion about offshore regs and the fewer participants for the OYRA series. I'm starting this to discuss the possibility of less regs for the SSS Half Moon Bay Race. All the other SSS ocean races are either more remote or tie with the OYRA RC (and run in the spring) so I personally have no problem with using the NCORC requirements for those (although they were not written for singlehanded entries and have a few flaws) The SSS HMB race is in the milder late summer/early fall and is always within CG VHF range, is a short 21 miles, Has multiple competitors close by during racing and is in daylight. David, could you post the results of the survey from last year? I recall some questions on it about the ocean requirements and I'm curious what people think.

 

[Travieso]

I'm sure someone can find the requirements from the 2011 SSI's.

 

[Jonathan Gutoff]

Jackie sent me the 2011 SSI's. Thanks Jackie. They mention vinyl covered lifelines and such. Remember that? But the main rules are 25w radio (no masthead antenna listed) SOLAS flares, PLB, and no lifeline requirement for under 30 ft. (only jacklines and tethers) I remember the CG asking for the EPIRBS in order to get a permit after the Daisy incident. Anyway, what is the opinion of everyone about a set of simpler rules without all the redundant stuff just for the SSS HMB race? I know some Moores and Express 27 owners who would go if it was simplified. And the Cal 20's.

 

[BobJ]

Per my post in the SHF thread:

"Apples-to-apples comparison of additional requirements today vs. our 2011 SSI's: Boat structure issues in 2.1.1 and 2.1.4, single lifelines for boats <30', toe rails, details on the bilge pump and life jackets, fewer(!) flares, Lifesling and MOB pole for SH's, heaving line, DSC VHF w/masthead antenna, handheld DSC VHF, installed depth sounder (vs. lead line), searchlight, second flashlight, 2 buckets, e-tiller for wheeled boats, a reef in the main, SAS class."

NorCalORC encourages race organizers to edit its list to tailor it to a particular race. Which items would you waive for HMB?

I would go to the SSS board with a specific recommendation and see what they say.

 

[Jonathan Gutoff]

I'd revise: EPIRB plus 2 DSC radios (maybe just pick one although handheld VHF with GPS/DSC would be my choice) No SOLAS flares (relatively short race with close competitors during daylight) No depth sounder (once again race in daylight and with GPS required it's not used for navigation much anymore. And it's a big deal for some of the boats who don't want to drill a hole in their boat just for one race) SAS class (four hour class is pretty useless in my opinion, Maybe mandatory SSS skippers meeting instead?) This would be for the SSS HMB Race only especially since it is the only ocean race some want to do for the SSS season. I understand the ease of having one set of rules for everybody who runs races past Bonita but I think for this race one size all doesn't fit. If it makes it impossible to get a permit or insurance then I get that too. And I'm posting this here for comments but will bring it up to board members when I see them. But what does everyone else think?

Per my post in the SHF thread:

"Apples-to-apples comparison of additional requirements today vs. our 2011 SSI's: Boat structure issues in 2.1.1 and 2.1.4, single lifelines for boats <30', toe rails, details on the bilge pump and life jackets, fewer(!) flares, Lifesling and MOB pole for SH's, heaving line, DSC VHF w/masthead antenna, handheld DSC VHF, installed depth sounder (vs. lead line), searchlight, second flashlight, 2 buckets, e-tiller for wheeled boats, a reef in the main, SAS class."

NorCalORC encourages race organizers to edit its list to tailor it to a particular race. Which items would you waive for HMB?

I would go to the SSS board with a specific recommendation and see what they say.

 

[todd22123]

On the HMB race, when I did it about 3 y ago, many, possibly most boats turned left out of SF Bay before the #8 Sea Bouy. I have seen steep swells and breaking wave tops in ebb conditions with less than 20 knot winds. The trip to HMB does seem more mellow to me, but it does seem like it would be viewed by race organizers similar to how they view the Farallon races.

 

[Wylieguy]

In the early 1960s we bought seat belt kits, drilled holes in the body pan, and installed them in a 1950s Nash. A few years later we added a shoulder belt. Of course the last few vehicles have come already equipped. We've never used the belts, nor the various air bags our current cars have. Same thing for a couple who are our friends and our same ages (mid-70s - 80). Until a month ago. Driving down a city street at 30 mph a car came out of nowhere and plowed almost head-on into them. Bang! Air bags exploding, safety belts cinching, car body crumple zones crumpling, engine pushed under the front seats. The result? Bruised ribs, "raspberry burns" from the air bags, and misc. bruises. "Daisy" was lost on a fairly mild day, not very far offshore from Seal Rocks. About where many boats headed for HMB take a left turn. That's where the divers found the boat. One body washed up near Montara; the other one was never found. Just saying.

 

[Lightspeed]

Pat, along those lines, I often tell guests I take sailing how it does not look that far as we pass between Alcatraz and the city front. However, no one has ever heard from Frank Morris or John & Clarence Anglin, who tried the short swim on the evening of June 11, 1962.

 

[Philpott]

Pat, along those lines, I often tell guests I take sailing how it does not look that far as we pass between Alcatraz and the city front. However, no one has ever heard from Frank Morris or John & Clarence Anglin, who tried the short swim on the evening of June 11, 1962.

But who knows? They may swim with the fishies or they may be living in obscurity in Oakland.

 

[Jonathan Gutoff]

In the early 1960s we bought seat belt kits, drilled holes in the body pan, and installed them in a 1950s Nash. A few years later we added a shoulder belt. Of course the last few vehicles have come already equipped. We've never used the belts, nor the various air bags our current cars have. Same thing for a couple who are our friends and our same ages (mid-70s - 80). Until a month ago. Driving down a city street at 30 mph a car came out of nowhere and plowed almost head-on into them. Bang! Air bags exploding, safety belts cinching, car body crumple zones crumpling, engine pushed under the front seats. The result? Bruised ribs, "raspberry burns" from the air bags, and misc. bruises. "Daisy" was lost on a fairly mild day, not very far offshore from Seal Rocks. About where many boats headed for HMB take a left turn. That's where the divers found the boat. One body washed up near Montara; the other one was never found. Just saying.

Th Daisy incident was on the Doublehanded Lightship March 2008. http://norcalsailing.com/archives/Entries/2008/3/17_Doublehanded_Lightship.html
The SSS HMB race has never had a turning mark at a seabouy but the crewed version does. Thats in June. This year the SSS HMB Race is in September and is usually milder and has been a late summer/fall race as far as I know. http://www.norcalsailing.com/entries/2014/09/15/sss/hmb.html#.VTxvPEtpdjE
I don't recall ever being in a rough SSS HMB Race but maybe Pat or Jim or others can remember one and tell us about it.

 

[Daydreamer]

As a fairly new member of SSS I don't have the perspective of having less stringent rules in the past. When I became interested in SSS events and joined, I started looking to prep my boat with the required safety equipment. Yes, the list is long and expensive but I have been picking away at it.

I am also starting with a new to me boat this year, Nightmare. Many items transferred from the old boat, PFDs and handheld VHF, and many things needed to be addressed and upgraded masthead antenna, securing items, lifelines, secure hatch.

I accept these things need to be done if I am going to race outside the Gate. Period.

I want to be as safe as I can, my wife likes that, and be able to render assistance if needed, which is what the MERs are about. Realizing some items are geared towards a crewed boat, they can still be useful if you witness or are near a MOB situation.
If I fall overboard and forget to push the MOB button on the GPS and grab the DanBouy on the way over, I hope you have yours handy!

Relaxing the rules for one race, for a few people, is a not a good idea. I think it will only invite further contention in other situations / races. Just look at what happened with the "one design" issue.

Predicting HMB race to be easy with mild conditions is not a good idea.
We should never assume to "know" the weather / sea state. This could be the year a freak storm rolls in for HMB.

Suck it up. Prep your boat. Be safe.

 

[[email protected]]

[I]This is a re-post of a comment on the LongPac thread. If requirements are being reconsidered it seemed like this might be added to the list. I have asked for a final decision on whether the smaller rafts will be meet the criteria (according to the posted life raft requirements they will not).
[/I]
The raft I have was made by Switlic for the military. The website for information on the raft is:
http://www.switlik.com/aviation/isplr

The raft has a complete canopy, it self inflates (not not the canopy however), and comes with the usual extras (sea anchor etc.) Some of the required items would need to be carried in the ditch bag (flares, food and water, etc.), but to honest, I kept the reft IN my ditch bag as it was small and light enough. If I need to use it I plan to float the ditch bag attached to the raft in lighter weather, and put in the raft in the heavier stuff. It is a sealed unit and only needs to be repacked every 5 years at a cost of about $90.00. I bought the one-man it after being assured that it would need the life raft requirement for the Transpac, only to have that opinion reversed a few days prior to the start. I ended up taking my large raft that weights close to 100 lbs and costs $400+ each to repack. I am waiting to hear from the race committee as to whether the small raft will be acceptable for the LongPac as I can not afford to repack the large one each year.

When I view the life raft question I try to define the use it would be required to serve. We carry extensive communication/location equipment and sail in routes that are not all that remote. I thought the odd were overwhelming that a rescue would be affected within two days of the abandonment of the primary vessel in the sailing we do. The small raft I feel can do that task effectively, inexpensively, and more efficiently (I sail a 25' boat with very limited space). I would like to see it as an accepted option to the larger heavier, more cumbersome, and much more costly larger rafts.

 

[Harrier]

I used one of those "way back when" after another competitor in '86 used one. As a result, the powers that be changed the rules to specify that the CANOPY had to be self-erecting. That's how it's been ever since. End of discussion.

 

[DaveH]

I sincerely hope so [the "end of discussion"].
Somehow I doubt it, so I went back and re-read the one year old thread from SHTP 2014 re the Switlik. Following is a cut and paste from Brian Boschma's post referencing Greg Nelsen's conversation with Switlik:

Brian's Post from 3.27.14:
Greg Nelsen has followed up with Switlik regarding the use of this raft. In addition to his analysis, the raft is not ISAF compliant. It certainly is a light weight design. Below is his report:

-------------------- From Greg ---------------------------------------------------

Did some research on the ISPLR and didn't find all the answers I wanted so I contact Brian Kender @ Switlik, the Marine Products manager. He answered a few questions I had and stressed that they only recommend this raft for aviation use. As much as I wanted to have to product fit the needs of the racers I wouldn't recommend it for several reasons:

• Most of the stability comes from your body sitting below the water line.
• Sitting below the waterline will ensure your body heat is transferred rapidly to the surrounding water = hypothermia much quicker.
• No space for a decent size ditch bag and/or supplies = no possible extended stay in the raft if a EPIRB signal doesn't go out due to a malfunction, etc.
• No room to move around if an extended stay happens.
• The big red flag was that it's a single tube. No 2nd tube like an offshore raft, no inner safety tube (even their basic single tube coastal raft has an inner backup tube).

OK - so the Switlik is not, and has never been (or even implied to be), ISAF or rule compliant.
It seems to me that there is some sound reasoning here why it should not be.
Yes, we travel some relatively populated waters with a lot of fancy communication gear that mostly works most of the time.
That said, we are not military pilots who can bob around pretty well assured that a full-on SAR team is already in the air to their last known coordinates about the time they hit the water.

DH