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Cheers - Bryan
SSS Corinthian 2018
- Thread starter jamottep
- Start date
Daydreamer
SAILOR
Usually it is closer to the skippers meeting before the SI's are posted.
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Caaaareful now. Remember that this is a volunteer position and our new race chair is the new guy. He doesn't know what chaos looks like yet. He thinks he does because he ran the Fiasco. But only four boats finished during the Fiasco. Wait until Saturday night. Then we can debate all the things he should have done to benefit each of us personally. For the time being, I'm going to be reeeeal nice to him.
Jim, can I buy you a beer after the race Saturday night? Dura Mater and I will be coming in waaaay after the multi hulls. See you then. Jackie
solosailor
New member
The RC did reach out to many to ask for opinions...... I was in the camp of "if it has worked for all these years and our numbers are the highest they have ever been why change the working formula?". The start time should not be changed unless a freighter decides to go through Raccoon Straight.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Jim wanted to set up the printed start times to allow for a postponement. I did the same thing when I was race chair - I worded it differently but with the same intent.
These will be large divisions, and with the (often) light air we get off the CYC, the starting line can be mostly blocked off by divisions starting ahead of you. We've also had boats catch the pin, blocking it and moving it around.
I suggest racers review the timing sequence for a postponement and be prepared. I've also encouraged Jim to keep us informed via VHF if there's a need to postpone.
These will be large divisions, and with the (often) light air we get off the CYC, the starting line can be mostly blocked off by divisions starting ahead of you. We've also had boats catch the pin, blocking it and moving it around.
I suggest racers review the timing sequence for a postponement and be prepared. I've also encouraged Jim to keep us informed via VHF if there's a need to postpone.
The RRS have it all. Postponements happen all the time (try this weekend's CYC MidWins for instance). Following the RRS procedures makes for uniform practice. Yes, slow starts, catching the pin, waiting for wind, mistakes by someone raising the wrong flag, they all happen. And, they all can be "corrected" using the RRS. Racers should know the rules. That's all.,
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
huh
Attachments
I dropped out of Sailing Anarchy years ago when folks stopped respecting others. I dropped out of Pressure Drop for the same reason a year or so ago. Now, after being an SSS member since 1984 and a participant in the SSS Forum since its inception, it appears it's time for me to drop out of the Forum as well. It's been informative, I've enjoyed sharing, and I thought the level of response was, well responsible. Unfortunately I was wrong. I'll be set the Starting Line on time Saturday. Pat Broderick, "NANCY" Wyliecat #28890
About 25% of Sailing Anarchy is a cesspool, that's for sure. Honestly, I think that's down from the worst of it, maybe 6=7 years ago when I just quit writing there. However, the informed and helpful response to my rudder thread over there was a big surprise. There are good, helpful folks at SA. I think the worst of it is in the ongoing "bash" threads in General Anarchy, like the threads on Rimas...Dimas, whatever his name is. I didn'nt write at SA for years and years. Now I'm back, mostly in the more-polite Cruising forum.
Pressure Drop has seemed pretty gentlemanly to me, but it's awfully quiet.
Pat, I'd hate to see you disappear from the SSS forum. I'd really hate to see that happen. Stick around, we all could use seeing what you have to say. I think that Jackies howler monkey picture was a jest, not mean-spirited. She's just not like that! Sometimes here on-line the nuances of our attempts at humour fall flat.
Pressure Drop has seemed pretty gentlemanly to me, but it's awfully quiet.
Pat, I'd hate to see you disappear from the SSS forum. I'd really hate to see that happen. Stick around, we all could use seeing what you have to say. I think that Jackies howler monkey picture was a jest, not mean-spirited. She's just not like that! Sometimes here on-line the nuances of our attempts at humour fall flat.
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I would likewise hate to see Pat (WylieGuy) disappear from this forum. I value his writing and thoughts. I gave up on SA long ago. I'd count it a feather in your cap that you were banned from it. PD is cool if a bit under used.
Now, perhaps I'm missing something, but the starting times and signals seem OK. Please advise me if there is anything other then go to the end of the line if you're in a class that's General Recall.
Particularly at the Corinthian it is impossible to see the signal flags. I encourage the Race Committee to use VHF to inform the racers of where they are in the sequence and if there is postponement or any change in things. Take a page from Bobbi Tosse at the BYC mids for clarity. In fact, use Bobbi's whole book.
Now, perhaps I'm missing something, but the starting times and signals seem OK. Please advise me if there is anything other then go to the end of the line if you're in a class that's General Recall.
Particularly at the Corinthian it is impossible to see the signal flags. I encourage the Race Committee to use VHF to inform the racers of where they are in the sequence and if there is postponement or any change in things. Take a page from Bobbi Tosse at the BYC mids for clarity. In fact, use Bobbi's whole book.
PRO replies
Hi Pat,
I'm Jim, 2018 Race Chair for the SSS, and the PRO for this event. I think I can address your question.
The "perfectly round" wheel that's "been working for years" doesn't conform with the RRS. It said "The start for Flag C will be at 11:05, the start for Flag D will be at 11:10, etc." Have you ever seen SIs that look like that?
The proper "RRS" way is to say when the first warning will be, thus I changed the instructions to say the warning for Flag C will be at 11:00. Since we're following the RRS, as stated in Rule 1a of the NOR, that makes the start time 11:05 for Flag C. Now I admit that when I said the warning for Flag D will be "at or after Flag C start" I could have left all that out and simply stated "We intend to start races in the order listed below."
Had I left the instructions as written, I felt there was more opportunity for confusion. For instance, if for any reason I had needed to postpone the entire race, or a start, then I'd have had an issue because racers could correctly say "The SIs said my start was at 11:25 so I started at 11:25." The NOR (Rule 19 c) only lets the PRO modify the SIs verbally prior to the first warning, so technically we'd be locked into what was printed on the SIs and I'd have no options but to let mayhem ensue.
To respond to Jackie, and mayhem ensuing, if for any reason mayhem should ensue at a start, I may want to let that mayhem clear itself before starting the next division. As currently written, I can, but as previously written, I'd have been locked into a schedule, and the subsequent division would be penalized by having to negotiate the mayhem that wouldn't have been of their own making!
What I said at the Skipper's Meeting was that we intend to start boats as written last year, with Flag C starting at 11:05, D at 11:10, etc., and if for any reason we don't, we will be super clear about what we're doing on the radio (VHF72). In fact, we intend to be super clear about what we're doing even if we follow the plan, because we fully understand that it's hard for one person (sometimes two) to sail a boat in heavy traffic and look for distant undersized flags. Keep your radio tuned to VHF72 and you should know what's going on.
I did poll about 8 racers to get their philosophy on SSS starts, and I also posted a thread asking for people's opinion. Two racers thought the SSS should start races religiously to a schedule, with racers taking whatever conditions they get, and the remainder said they'd prefer to start in wind. As a result, it was decided that if for any reason no boat is able to make way at 11:00, we'll postpone, but we'll only give the wind up to 30 minutes to fill in, and by 11:30 we're going no matter what. This will all be announced on VHF72. Also, any postponement will correspondingly move the time limit, so that if we start at 11:20 rather than 11:00, we'll stretch the cutoff time by that same delay (20 minutes).
I hope this clarifies why this change was made. And yes, I'm also a volunteer trying to do good by all you racers, so please feel free to let me know what I can be doing better.
Jim
Hi Pat,
I'm Jim, 2018 Race Chair for the SSS, and the PRO for this event. I think I can address your question.
The "perfectly round" wheel that's "been working for years" doesn't conform with the RRS. It said "The start for Flag C will be at 11:05, the start for Flag D will be at 11:10, etc." Have you ever seen SIs that look like that?
The proper "RRS" way is to say when the first warning will be, thus I changed the instructions to say the warning for Flag C will be at 11:00. Since we're following the RRS, as stated in Rule 1a of the NOR, that makes the start time 11:05 for Flag C. Now I admit that when I said the warning for Flag D will be "at or after Flag C start" I could have left all that out and simply stated "We intend to start races in the order listed below."
Had I left the instructions as written, I felt there was more opportunity for confusion. For instance, if for any reason I had needed to postpone the entire race, or a start, then I'd have had an issue because racers could correctly say "The SIs said my start was at 11:25 so I started at 11:25." The NOR (Rule 19 c) only lets the PRO modify the SIs verbally prior to the first warning, so technically we'd be locked into what was printed on the SIs and I'd have no options but to let mayhem ensue.
To respond to Jackie, and mayhem ensuing, if for any reason mayhem should ensue at a start, I may want to let that mayhem clear itself before starting the next division. As currently written, I can, but as previously written, I'd have been locked into a schedule, and the subsequent division would be penalized by having to negotiate the mayhem that wouldn't have been of their own making!
What I said at the Skipper's Meeting was that we intend to start boats as written last year, with Flag C starting at 11:05, D at 11:10, etc., and if for any reason we don't, we will be super clear about what we're doing on the radio (VHF72). In fact, we intend to be super clear about what we're doing even if we follow the plan, because we fully understand that it's hard for one person (sometimes two) to sail a boat in heavy traffic and look for distant undersized flags. Keep your radio tuned to VHF72 and you should know what's going on.
I did poll about 8 racers to get their philosophy on SSS starts, and I also posted a thread asking for people's opinion. Two racers thought the SSS should start races religiously to a schedule, with racers taking whatever conditions they get, and the remainder said they'd prefer to start in wind. As a result, it was decided that if for any reason no boat is able to make way at 11:00, we'll postpone, but we'll only give the wind up to 30 minutes to fill in, and by 11:30 we're going no matter what. This will all be announced on VHF72. Also, any postponement will correspondingly move the time limit, so that if we start at 11:20 rather than 11:00, we'll stretch the cutoff time by that same delay (20 minutes).
I hope this clarifies why this change was made. And yes, I'm also a volunteer trying to do good by all you racers, so please feel free to let me know what I can be doing better.
Jim
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Regarding after-race possibilities by SSS Corinthian race participants:
This from Jim Erskine, member of the Corinthian Yacht Club and singlehander on s/v KIRA:
Everyone is welcome to raft up. Bar is open. Food available until 5pm. We have a “Wine Dinner” Saturday night so no dinner menu available.
This from Jim Erskine, member of the Corinthian Yacht Club and singlehander on s/v KIRA:
Everyone is welcome to raft up. Bar is open. Food available until 5pm. We have a “Wine Dinner” Saturday night so no dinner menu available.
We're starting in group F tomorrow, but looking forward to probably sailing with group G. This is my first doublehander so will be giving everyone a wide berth at the start. We'll be easy to spot; the two wide-eyed youngins aboard Spartan.
Jim whatever happens tomorrow with the start I support you, PRO is a tough job with a lot of difficult real time decisions to be made; and thank you for taking the time to organize this race.
Cheers
Jim whatever happens tomorrow with the start I support you, PRO is a tough job with a lot of difficult real time decisions to be made; and thank you for taking the time to organize this race.
Cheers
