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Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Collection of previous SSS Transpac Rudders:
http://sfbaysss.org/TransPac/transpac2008/emergency_rudder_designs/emergency_rudder_designs.html
http://sfbaysss.org/TransPac/transpac2008/emergency_rudder_designs/emergency_rudder_designs.html
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My emergency rudder in 2008 was a rudder/cassette design. There were pluses and minuses to the design. for one thing, since the body of the rudder blade was behind the axis of rotation, the rudder loaded up a lot. It was not fun to steer the boat with the setup, though it worked.
The rudder blade was foam core, such as what you can buy here:
https://www.flyingfoam.com/
I bought a precut 12 inch chord 72-inch long symmetrical foam blade. Don't get styrene, get the EPP core. This is important, as epoxy will dissolve styrene. Hmm.. is that right? Maybe the polyester resins dissolve styrene. Hmmm. Well this was a long time ago.
I then layered up a few layers of knytex in epoxy over the foam blade. I used three layers PLUS two layer of unidirectional carbon fiber for a rudder blade that was probably ten pounds heavier than it needed to be but was the far side of bombproof. I'm a crummy glassworker, I didn't vacuum bag it or anything so it wasn't all THAT fair, but I found it acceptable. I figured this was a "get me there" rudder rather than a "Keep racing" rudder so i sanded it but I sure didn't get it super-smooth. The foil you'll get from the foam wing places is pretty thick, it's WAY thicker than a J-24 rudder for example. This has hydrodymanic advantages and disadvantages.
I made the cassette out of laminated 1/8 inch doorskins, available from Home Depot. This was screwed and glued to a shaped bit of 2 x 4 at the front. There were straps of uni carbon fiber wrapped around the entire cassette. I had a welder make up custom pintles, which were pretty strong but not pretty.
All in all I think the device was acceptable, if not pretty. It was hella strong and didn't cost much, though the cassette took me forever to make.
If I were to do this over again on a boat the size of a Santa Cruz 27 I would probably not go for a blade/cassette system. On something 30-foot -plus I don't think you have an option, it's just too difficult to wrestle the blade and gudgeons/pintles together when the boat is bounding around and every waves shoves the blade one way or another. You need to keep the blade out of the water...drop the cassette on the gudgeons, and drop the blade into the cassette. Instead of that, I would probably mold in carbon/glass brackets for a one-piece rudder with "glassed on pintles" and make sure I could lash the rudder to the boat with a tether for insurance, while I was cursing for the 45 minutes it might take to get the blasted things lined up and engaged.
If I were taking a smaller boat, in the 24-25 foot range, I'd probably search ebay for a used J-24 rudder or other transom-hung rudder and work with that.
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Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Thanks, Alan. I don't suppose you have any photos? Buying a used rudder. What a brilliant idea for my Cal2-27. Lucie gave me a copy of your very sensible and minimalist electric plan for some Transpac past. I plan to scan it onto the forum for everybody else to read. I really appreciated your attitude.
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
Hi Jacky,
I have a rudder cassette system I made. It actually steered me to Hawaii when my main rudder broke. It uses a similar construction technique to what Alan described. PM me, it might be available as there is the possibility I won't be sailing during the SHTP. It has been installed on several boats besides mine. It would be a bit large for your boat, but could be hung on the transom. An alternative, find a rudder of a modern catamaran and purchase it and the cassette.
I have a rudder cassette system I made. It actually steered me to Hawaii when my main rudder broke. It uses a similar construction technique to what Alan described. PM me, it might be available as there is the possibility I won't be sailing during the SHTP. It has been installed on several boats besides mine. It would be a bit large for your boat, but could be hung on the transom. An alternative, find a rudder of a modern catamaran and purchase it and the cassette.
Alan now Pat's Emergency Rudder
Jackie, I actually have Alan's emergency rudder and have adapted the transom part to fit a Wyliecat with an outboard mount receiver, but I do have his original bits. Let's talk Wed. night about a deal. I do carry it around on the OYRA, BAMA, and SSS ocean races, but maybe I could get along without it for some of them next year?
I think a cassette/blade ER would be better than hanging over the transom trying to get those pintle thingies into that gudeon thing. That was hard for me to do back when I sailed Lasers and the rudder came off!
Pat
Jackie, I actually have Alan's emergency rudder and have adapted the transom part to fit a Wyliecat with an outboard mount receiver, but I do have his original bits. Let's talk Wed. night about a deal. I do carry it around on the OYRA, BAMA, and SSS ocean races, but maybe I could get along without it for some of them next year?
I think a cassette/blade ER would be better than hanging over the transom trying to get those pintle thingies into that gudeon thing. That was hard for me to do back when I sailed Lasers and the rudder came off!
Pat
Jackie,
Okay I've been thinking, a dangerous activity for sure. Your other post asking about brackets reminded me you're using a wind vane for self-steering. I think that complicates the ER issue for several reasons. 1) The vane occupies the same space on the transom as the ER would. 2) If you can mount both the vane and the ER on the transom, you've got to have a mean of connecting the vane with the ER.
If you were to use a J/24 rudder with its own tiller that means setting up those connections. If you were to use an ER in a cassette that's attached to your existing tiller it means a new set of lines added to the mix.
By the way, if you use an ER connected to your regular tiller, you need to plan on how that will work if your forced to shove the regular rudder out and the shaft the tiller hooks onto goes with the rudder. The tiller needs to pivot on something.
Pat
Okay I've been thinking, a dangerous activity for sure. Your other post asking about brackets reminded me you're using a wind vane for self-steering. I think that complicates the ER issue for several reasons. 1) The vane occupies the same space on the transom as the ER would. 2) If you can mount both the vane and the ER on the transom, you've got to have a mean of connecting the vane with the ER.
If you were to use a J/24 rudder with its own tiller that means setting up those connections. If you were to use an ER in a cassette that's attached to your existing tiller it means a new set of lines added to the mix.
By the way, if you use an ER connected to your regular tiller, you need to plan on how that will work if your forced to shove the regular rudder out and the shaft the tiller hooks onto goes with the rudder. The tiller needs to pivot on something.
Pat
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Yes, my Navik windvane complicates the process. With help from a friend, we disconnnected the paddle and vane from the mounting frame. It is currently in three parts. I suspect, if I have to do that offshore, I can, and replace the current paddle with an emergency transom-hung rudder. I have a Simrad tiller pilot.
I took a SC 27 to Hawaii and had a Navik vane on the boat. My idea was that if disaster struck, the vane was coming off, the emergency rudder was going on, and the autopilot was doing a lot of steering. Also, the skipper would be doing a lot of steering.
note that if you can't mount a rudder with a tiller sticking into the cockpit, you can have the tiller stick out back like an enormous stinger. Mount a spinnaker pole crosswise across the cockpit to improve the angles and then use lines to a steering whipstaff in the cockpit, to do the steering. If done up cleverly, the autohelm can connect to the whipstaff.
note that if you can't mount a rudder with a tiller sticking into the cockpit, you can have the tiller stick out back like an enormous stinger. Mount a spinnaker pole crosswise across the cockpit to improve the angles and then use lines to a steering whipstaff in the cockpit, to do the steering. If done up cleverly, the autohelm can connect to the whipstaff.
This part is kind of important. Ask Rob MacFarlane about what it's like to sail to Hawaii with a main rudder that's jammed over on one side.
I don't think that a J-24 rudder is big enough to steer a Cal 27. Or rather, it could steer a Cal 27 as long as the main rudder is either gone, or jammed on centerline, or completely free-spinning. You absolutely need to set up a system in your cockpit where a tiller or whipstaff can be connected to lines that go to the tiller. On the other hand, the rudder I made that Pat has, probably would do the job on your Cal 27.
There ARE other options...watch ebay for stuff like this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boaters-Resale-Shop-of-Tx-12070601-24-Capri-22-Externally-hung-rudder-/271016393273?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item3f19d5fa39&vxp=mtr
Not that I'm suggesting that a Capri 22 rudder will steer your Cal, but you get the idea.
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
That's what I think would happen, but it is comforting to hear someone else think so, too. My Navik is currently in three parts while I locate (or have Chris at Svendsen's fabricate) the appropriately sized stainless brackets. To take the paddle and then the top off is a matter of several well placed screws (or, in a panic, I could always disconnect the frame and throw it all into the sea). And that photo of the rudder in Texas looks beefy, and not unlike Dura Mater's rudder. The rudder on my Cal 20 was similarly fat and strong, just not long enough for my current boat: her transom is 36" off the water. Thanks very much for the advice, Alan!
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Jackie, Old rudders of various sizes, vintages, and design should be available locally. There are enough old boats/junked boats/rudders sitting around that asking some questions at boatyards, independent boat guys like Gordie, or a listing on Craigs List should get you one pretty cheap - if that's the way you want to go.
I think it's absolutely necessary to get rid of the old rudder if it's bent, free wheeling, or only a stub -especially if you need to use the tiller as part of the emergency steering. I carry a length of wooden dowling (closet rod at Home Depot) long enough to shove the rudder post down and out of the boat. I've done it at the berth, so I know it can be done. I also have a shorter length of tubing which I attach to the rudder head fitting that fits into the now-empty rudder housing to provide a pivot point for the tiller. Now I'm ready to attach the lines from the emergency rudder and begin steering.
If you're planning on an electric autohelm and hand steering, getting the Navik vane off will clear the transom for almost any kind of emergency rudder. If you plan to use the Navik plus an ER you've got to figure out how to mount both of them on the transom. If you do plan to use electric steering you'll need to provide enough battery power to do that, which probably means running your engine several hours per day. Think how much fuel you'll need.
Pat
I think it's absolutely necessary to get rid of the old rudder if it's bent, free wheeling, or only a stub -especially if you need to use the tiller as part of the emergency steering. I carry a length of wooden dowling (closet rod at Home Depot) long enough to shove the rudder post down and out of the boat. I've done it at the berth, so I know it can be done. I also have a shorter length of tubing which I attach to the rudder head fitting that fits into the now-empty rudder housing to provide a pivot point for the tiller. Now I'm ready to attach the lines from the emergency rudder and begin steering.
If you're planning on an electric autohelm and hand steering, getting the Navik vane off will clear the transom for almost any kind of emergency rudder. If you plan to use the Navik plus an ER you've got to figure out how to mount both of them on the transom. If you do plan to use electric steering you'll need to provide enough battery power to do that, which probably means running your engine several hours per day. Think how much fuel you'll need.
Pat
Cover Craft
New member
Remember that rudders don't have to be on the centerline! The Navik vane, among others, is narrow enough even with the diagonal struts that an outboard rudder can easily be fitted off center on a Cal 27 with enough room to swing easily to more rudder angle than it should ever have. This is how Constellation's E-redder and vane are set up, there's plenty of clearance. Of course it will be a little less effective heeled one way than the other but a lot better than jettisoning the vane!
After all the first rudders were "steer-boards" on the right side of the boat.
-Tom
After all the first rudders were "steer-boards" on the right side of the boat.
-Tom
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
RAG's e-rudder is off-center because of the long backstay tang. One solar panel has to come off to use it, but that's easy.
As someone else wrote, I also carry a rudder-tube sized dowel to drive the old rudder and post out out of the tube if that proves necessary - possible on my boat since the rudder tube is glassed in from top to bottom. You should check to make sure you can seal the lower tube with something if yours is in two pieces.
As someone else wrote, I also carry a rudder-tube sized dowel to drive the old rudder and post out out of the tube if that proves necessary - possible on my boat since the rudder tube is glassed in from top to bottom. You should check to make sure you can seal the lower tube with something if yours is in two pieces.
The Navik is great. There's no reason to heave the thing into the ocean, though, if you have to take it off. Just remove the paddle (mind your fingers!!!) and then take the rest of the thing off the back of the boat. Stash it in the forepeak.
Buying a pre-made rudder that fits your boat reasonably well is WAY ahead of the game, compared to building one. That is, unless you're after the absolute lightest of light e-rudders and can vacuum bag a foam core with epoxy and carbon cloth. The only downside to a full rudder is the issue of getting the blasted thing lined up - gudgeons and pintles- with the blade in the water. If you just understand that you'll be wrestling the damn thing around for an hour before you get it to work, and that you'll be tired, sweaty and furious by the time it's done, then there ya go. You're set.
Since you opted for the Navik, not a Monitor or Hydrovane, you're going to have to have some sort of non-windvane-attached rudder.
Buying a pre-made rudder that fits your boat reasonably well is WAY ahead of the game, compared to building one. That is, unless you're after the absolute lightest of light e-rudders and can vacuum bag a foam core with epoxy and carbon cloth. The only downside to a full rudder is the issue of getting the blasted thing lined up - gudgeons and pintles- with the blade in the water. If you just understand that you'll be wrestling the damn thing around for an hour before you get it to work, and that you'll be tired, sweaty and furious by the time it's done, then there ya go. You're set.
Since you opted for the Navik, not a Monitor or Hydrovane, you're going to have to have some sort of non-windvane-attached rudder.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/4136334706.html
5 foot long rudder. If you mounted gudgeons on the appropriate places on the transom and had a somewhat shorter rudder stick out the BACK of the boat, attaches to lines that ran to a whipstaff in the cockpit, then this might work. If the guy thinks that it's a Cal 20 rudder, then it's probably too small, but maybe???
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/boa/4093712314.html
That one is 'waaay south of here, but it's probably big enough for your boat. If it's 71 inches long, that's almost 6 feet long. If your transom is 3 feet, and the head of the rudder needs to stick up 8-9 inches over the transom, then that gives you 3 - 3 1/2 feet of rudder blade in the water.
PERSONALLY?>???? if it were me? I'd call the guy, make a deal on the phone and drive down there. Dead serious about that.
5 foot long rudder. If you mounted gudgeons on the appropriate places on the transom and had a somewhat shorter rudder stick out the BACK of the boat, attaches to lines that ran to a whipstaff in the cockpit, then this might work. If the guy thinks that it's a Cal 20 rudder, then it's probably too small, but maybe???
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/boa/4093712314.html
That one is 'waaay south of here, but it's probably big enough for your boat. If it's 71 inches long, that's almost 6 feet long. If your transom is 3 feet, and the head of the rudder needs to stick up 8-9 inches over the transom, then that gives you 3 - 3 1/2 feet of rudder blade in the water.
PERSONALLY?>???? if it were me? I'd call the guy, make a deal on the phone and drive down there. Dead serious about that.
[email protected]
Capri 25 - Jack
I have a Capri 25 with a vane on the stern so I have been thinking about these issues. I attempted to purchase the Capri 22 rudder mentioned above but the guy really did not want to sell it as he is using it for his boat. Bit of a run around, that. I did purchase a J24 rudder (not cheap) nor is the hardware to mount it (1/2" pin hardware is costly to the tune of a couple of hundred new).
Some ideas I considered, good and some not so good
Mounting off center on the transom - no problem with handling but servo blade still hits
Building a frame around the back of the vane, top the rudder with a quadrant of sorts, and use lines to link it to the vane and/or tiller. This would not need a tiller at all, The lines could be lead directly to the tiller and the existing tiller could be used to steer by hand or autopilot. I am still keeping this option open.
I have an old Hasler gear that is easily moved aft a few feet to allow space for the rudder head. I wonder if the water diverted in direction would compromise the action of the servo blade?
Mount the emergency rudder off the side of the boat like the Viking ships (steerboard became starboard, at least in nautical folk lore).
As mentioned above, remove the vane and go electric auto pilot to steer. I am currently favoring this option for simplicity, but being able to continue with all steering options open is pretty attractive so I may end up with a way to extend the vane aft in back of the rudder (only about 14").
I know Minnie's in Newport (So Cal) has some rudders in the back.
Doug Paine
Some ideas I considered, good and some not so good
Mounting off center on the transom - no problem with handling but servo blade still hits
Building a frame around the back of the vane, top the rudder with a quadrant of sorts, and use lines to link it to the vane and/or tiller. This would not need a tiller at all, The lines could be lead directly to the tiller and the existing tiller could be used to steer by hand or autopilot. I am still keeping this option open.
I have an old Hasler gear that is easily moved aft a few feet to allow space for the rudder head. I wonder if the water diverted in direction would compromise the action of the servo blade?
Mount the emergency rudder off the side of the boat like the Viking ships (steerboard became starboard, at least in nautical folk lore).
As mentioned above, remove the vane and go electric auto pilot to steer. I am currently favoring this option for simplicity, but being able to continue with all steering options open is pretty attractive so I may end up with a way to extend the vane aft in back of the rudder (only about 14").
I know Minnie's in Newport (So Cal) has some rudders in the back.
Doug Paine