Storm Sails

[AZ Sailor]

Looking at the storm sails requirements from 2016 RRC (Section 4.52). Boat came to me with a storm trysail and dedicated track for same on the mast, so we're good on Part A. Part B, the head sail, is my present quandary.

I have an 85% jib that should fill the requirement, but I'm not sure I want to go to sea with that as my storm jib: it mounts by feeding up the luff groove on the roller furler. Don't think I'd want to be dropping the genoa and trying to hoist that in deteriorating conditions.

Has anyone used the "Gale sail" from ATN? Other suggestion?

 

[BobJ]

I have ATN's Gale Sail. I also have a roller-furler. The main reason I bought the Gale Sail was to be able to clip it over the furled jib as you suggest, so I don't have to remove the jib first in storm conditions. You need a second halyard on the front of the mast (I have a second jib halyard but a fractional spinnaker halyard might work). I leave a set of sheets attached to the Gale Sail so it's ready to use. Other than determining your sheeting leads there's not much else to do.

I've hoisted the Gale Sail several times for inspections but haven't needed to sail with it (yet).

 

[AlanH]

A storm headsail is not that much $$ if you get a presized one. Normally I don't recommend links to sailmakers other than our local folks, but for a storm sail, might as well grab one of these.

http://thesailwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/web_store_TSW.cgi?page=stormsails.htm

The reason I've never been keen on the Gale Sail is that honestly, I don't think I want a furled sail up at all if it gets to the point where I need a storm headsail. However, that's just me and my uninformed opinion, seeing as I have very little experience with roller furling sails.

I used one on the 2004 SHTP when we sailed out into 35-40 knots and pretty big seas. I discovered that my Santana 3030 wouldn't lie ahull with two reefs in and a storm headsail. The double-reefed main overpowered the headsail.

 

[mike cunningham]

I bought my storm jib and Tri from The Sail Warehouse. I am happy with the quality of the sails, they were also reasonably priced. I believe they keep many sails in stock so if you wanted to drive to Monterey you could check them out before you buy. I used the storm jib the last two days of the Transpac after the dregs of Celia shredded my camberspar jib. Was a great, albeit very small, sail. Delivery crew used it in gale alley on the way back too. Set up the tri prior to the race but never used it. Pineapple built me a new jib after the race.

 

[AZ Sailor]

Thanks for the feed back, guys. I checked my measurements, and my storm jib is actually 80%, not 85%, so that's just fine. I'm pretty sure I'd be legal in the SHTP with that and my trysail on board. I should probably just try dropping the genny and hoisting the storm jib in stiff but not too nasty conditions before giving up on it. It would be the no cost option if I got a comfort level with that procedure.

Other option, which might be cheaper than the Gale Sail, would be to add a Solent stay: a stay attached to the mast just below the fore stay, to an attachment point on the fore deck, just aft of the furling drum, which can be detached from there and stowed at the base of the mast when not in use. Then have the sail maker replace the luff tape on the storm jib with hanks. I could then hoist the storm jib with the regular head sail still rolled up on the fore stay.

I'd be interested if anyone has seen or used such a set up.

 

[BobJ]

I'd be interested if anyone has seen or used such a set up.

Yep, but it was a significant project. Picking up a Gale Sail would be easier and cheaper. They come up second-hand now and then, usually unused.

 

[BobJ]

 

[Daydreamer]

Bob,
Are you using a second halyard as the stay? Or is that a dedicated dynema solent stay?

I have a track and ring on the foredeck I planned to use for this application.
I have two small, sub 80%, jibs with wire luffs. I thought I could hoist one free standing, but with a stay would be much more manageable.

 

[svShearwater]

Nice Bob. How did you handle the halyard and stay on the mast?

On our Valiant 32 we had a cutter stay, so further aft than a solent stay. The padeye was thru-bolted in the middle of the foredeck. No toggle underneath. Me thinks the V32 layup, might be just a touch thicker than the J/92. Just a touch...

 

[svShearwater]

Oh, and all of this discussion is why a lot boats just run hanked on headsails on the forestay... Take one off, put one on. No fuss, no accessories, no extra halyards, no extra stays, lighter, etc...

Pretty sure the Saga 43 Na Na, which came from the factory with two roller furlers on the bow for jib and genoa ended up with hanked on sails for SHTP.

 

[BobJ]

Greg, it's a dedicated, soft stay made from Dynex Dux and attached to the mast with a t-ball fitting (into a socket). The bottom end leads aft to a two-part purchase dead-ended next to the cabintop winch, with the tail brought through a clutch to the winch. It needs to be a fair lead - I blew up a clutch when I first tensioned it.

As Justin implies, the strength and rigidity of the deck is critical. If your existing track is for the spinny downhaul/foreguy it won't be strong enough and the load will damage the cored deck. If the track is for a baby stay it might be okay, but you really need to transfer the load down into the hull like I did. Unless you have a Valiant 32...

This setup was intended for a solent, not so much for a storm jib, and it turned out the existing furler compromises the program. When you get the solent stay tight enough to be able to point, the furler is sloppy loose and you can't roll/unroll the sail that's on it. So it's a two-stage process to get some tension and hoist the hanked-on sail, then roll the sail on the furler, then tension the soft stay fully. I was still not able to get sufficient tension to point normally with the solent, plus the rolled-up sail ahead of the solent causes some drag.

I did all this several years ago and haven't messed with it since, but I'm talking to North about the big picture and maybe going to hanked-on headsails exclusively. There are various attachment options besides traditional hanks - my #4 attaches with soft hanks for example.

Fun stuff but the boat is pretty good now and at some point you just have to stop...
.

 

[hodgmo]

Frolic (Islander 36) has a removable solent (inner forestay). Main reasons: The boat came with a roller furler and I was too cheap to trade/convert the roller furler sails for hanked, and I don’t like being that far forward when it’s rough. And the sail balance is noticeably better with the jib tacked inboard and a deep-reefed main. When off shore, and not in use, the storm jib (with sheets attached) is bagged and hanked onto the solent stay which is stowed by ‘tacking’ it to a chain-plate shroud base. The stay wire is spliced to warp speed which is led thru a big mast-mounted clutch via which it can be winched tight. The solent halyard is led to the cockpit and also serves as a 2nd topping lift (for two-pole operation). Some images of the install and in use (it’s not as pretty as Bob’s): https://goo.gl/photos/iqbhstopZFfoZMQS6

 

[AlanH]

Not sure that an 80% jib is really small enough for the Big Stuff. It might fulfill the rulez, tho. Also, is that 80% jib able to be raised a foot or eighteen inches off the deck? Is it a high-clew sail?

 

[svShearwater]

Not sure that an 80% jib is really small enough for the Big Stuff. It might fulfill the rulez, tho. Also, is that 80% jib able to be raised a foot or eighteen inches off the deck? Is it a high-clew sail?

I don't want to suggest deviating away from the Safety First principles, but realistically, going to Hawaii, is there really a need to go upwind in conditions that warrant a storm jib on a heavy displacement boat? There is definitely a time and a place for a storm jib, but I just don't see going to Hawaii from California being one of them.

Pretty sure (having owned two Valiant 32's) that with an 80% jib and two reefs, you could go upwind in 40 knots. The waves would stop you from going upwind long before having two much sail area up will.

 

[svShearwater]

I don't want to suggest deviating away from the Safety First principles, but realistically, going to Hawaii, is there really a need to go upwind in conditions that warrant a storm jib on a heavy displacement boat? There is definitely a time and a place for a storm jib, but I just don't see going to Hawaii from California being one of them.

Pretty sure (having owned two Valiant 32's) that with an 80% jib and two reefs, you could go upwind in 40 knots. The waves would stop you from going upwind long before having two much sail area up will.

Maybe it would be beneficial for the return leg? In that case, I'd concede a storm jib should be on the boat.

 

[hodgmo]

“I don't want to suggest deviating away from the Safety First principles, but realistically, going to Hawaii, is there really a need to go upwind in conditions that warrant a storm jib on a heavy displacement boat? There is definitely a time and a place for a storm jib, but I just don't see going to Hawaii from California being one of them.”

I think the storm jib is most useful for running in conditions where the following seas are manageable, eg, not big enough to slip the boat. The trysail and storm jib combo would theoretically (depending on the boat of course) allow clawing uphill in big wind, off a lee shore for example. I haven’t had to use my storm jib in storm conditions. In the low 40’s I can close reach with my deepest reef in the main and either a scandalized, reefed headsail (essentially a no 4), or for better balance, with a small staysail (like the storm jib) on my inner forestay. It’d be interesting to hear from those that’ve really had to use their storm sails, perhaps some of the 2016 SHTP sailors or Pac Cuppers….

 

[Steevee]

Maybe it would be beneficial for the return leg? In that case, I'd concede a storm jib should be on the boat.

+1...in addition to having to turn around due to breakage or otherwise.

 

[svShearwater]

“I don't want to suggest deviating away from the Safety First principles, but realistically, going to Hawaii, is there really a need to go upwind in conditions that warrant a storm jib on a heavy displacement boat? There is definitely a time and a place for a storm jib, but I just don't see going to Hawaii from California being one of them.”

I think the storm jib is most useful for running in conditions where the following seas are manageable, eg, not big enough to slip the boat. The trysail and storm jib combo would theoretically (depending on the boat of course) allow clawing uphill in big wind, off a lee shore for example. I haven’t had to use my storm jib in storm conditions. In the low 40’s I can close reach with my deepest reef in the main and either a scandalized, reefed headsail (essentially a no 4), or for better balance, with a small staysail (like the storm jib) on my inner forestay. It’d be interesting to hear from those that’ve really had to use their storm sails, perhaps some of the 2016 SHTP sailors or Pac Cuppers….

Pac Cup 2016 was the windiest year for Pac Cup on record and I know of two boats that used their storm jibs. We were one of those boats. We used it as a spinnaker staysail (3300 pound 28 footer). The other boat was a 3300 pound 30 footer on the first night, close reaching in ~30 knots. They were unable to trim their #4 for that angle without the leech flogging, so the opted for the storm jib to save the #4. For both of those cases, it wasn't necessary to use the storm jib, there were plenty of good alternatives, but we used them because we had them.

 

[Steevee]

Have past inspectors ever been convince that a third reef passes as a storm sail. I mean at 50+ knt winds and building seas, aside from a lee shore, I'm going to either heeve to, barepoles and maybe deploying a drogue. I can climb up wind with my stay sail. Every boat and skipper behaves differently in every kind of condition so I'm wondering if the inspection process is modified for each boat or is it one size fits all.
I've never used a storm try sail so educate me.

 

[BobJ]

The inspection process for the SHTP has been mostly "one size fits all" to take most of the subjectivity out of it. PacCup inspections seem to be more subjective and whether a solution meets a rule can depend on which inspector you get.

SHTP allows either a trys'l or a main that can be reefed down by at least 40% of the luff length. Here's the text of the rule from the 2016 race:

4.52 Storm sails.

[a] Mainsails and Trysails.
[1] A storm trysail capable of being sheeted independently of the boom, of an area not greater than 17.5% of mainsail luff length x mainsail foot length. It shall have neither headboard nor battens. A method of attaching the trysail to the mast shall be provided. The yacht's sail number and letter(s) shall be placed on both sides of a trysail in as large a size as is practicable, OR
[2] Mainsail reefing to reduce the luff length by at least 40%, but which does not obscure the appearance of the yacht's sail numbers.

Headsails
[1] If the rig is of a type on which a headsail is commonly used, then a storm jib shall be provided which attaches to a stay by a strong and secure method, is of an area not greater than 5% of the height of the foretriangle squared, and has a luff no longer than 65% of the height of the foretriangle, OR
[2] A heavy weather jib of 85% LP or less, of non-aramid fiber construction, that does not contain battens.