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Unresponsive SF YRA for 2024 PHRF certificate

J

jkalucki

New member
In the past the SF YRA has always been very responsive. This year my certificate was issued in January 17th with what I believe is an error, but I haven't gotten a response from them since I first contact them on January 18. Multiple emails and a voice mail have gone unanswered for nearly four weeks. I'm hoping that Laura Munoz is OK and she's just swamped with work.

I'm holding off entering the 2024 Corinthian for now, as I don't know what else to do to.

Any suggestions? Thanks,
-John Kalucki "Lindo"
 
I hope that you could explain the error on your certificate to the race committee and they would allow you to enter the Corinthians.

Sam
 
Hello, jkalucki.

I can't talk to YRA's responsiveness except to say that Fiasco and Corinthian drive a *lot* of new PHRF certificate activity for YRA and it may be very, very busy in the YRA office right now. Part of the motivitation for the $10 late fee SSS is charging this year is to avoid the big last-minute PHRF pileups of the past.

We are following the rules, so the cert you have at the close of registration is the one you'll race with. See NOR Addendum 2.1.3: "Boats may not change their handicap after the registration deadline. This modifies RRS 78.2."

So you have some constraints and some choices within those constraints. The obvious ones I see are

1) You can register now with the "erroroneous" certifiate and then change it up to (but not past) 2359 next Wednesday.
2) You can register now with the "erroroneous" certifiate and then cancel your registration early Thursday morning if you do not have a "better" certificate. See NOR 5.5 or 5.6 as applicable.
3) You can hold off registering until you get a better certficiate, and if that happens by 2359 next Wednesday, register then for an additional $10 fee.

Hope this helps.

Thank you for racing with the SSS.

Richard
2024 SSS Race Chair
 
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Thanks for the detailed response. I was assuming I'm stuck with this rating for now, was just wondering if there was another way to contact them, or if anyone had heard anything about the process this month, or whatever's going on. It's just so odd to hear nothing back for weeks on end.

I'm going to sign up and race with this rating until I hear back from them.

Thanks,
John
 
Hi John and Richard: for sure Laura is swamped so maybe we can help. Thats the point of this post anyway. If you experts can answer some questions, I promise to write it up in a post to try so as to try to help other SSS folks, Laura and RC. There is a fine line between helping and creating bad information but I know as noob and skipper I would like to know what I should do and what I expect to see happen and when.

Long version...
1. Let me just start with what an incredible job Laura does at YRA with handling what must be hundreds of renewals all over the holidays and beginning of the year. I have to believe that a large number of these are not simple updates. She told me at this time last year she was swamped and I have to believe the same is true this year. She has always been incredibly helpful and responsive to me starting from when I didn't even know what a PHRF was - not that long ago.
2. I wonder if maybe folks could race the first two SSS races with last years certificate, or would that just cause a bigger pile-up?
3. I can't remember exactly when the SSS ability to pay for a new PHRF was possible, but I think for me it was Jan 3 when I got an SSS email saying 3BF registration was open and I could pay for SSS membership and a new PHRF. So thats what I did in January.
4. I think the YRA group got notice on December 1 via "The Friday Roundup" that they could renew. Maybe we could figure out a way to renew earlier and I would have done that.
5. I have been waiting for a new PDF PHRF certificate since January and knew Laura would be swamped so didn't pester her. But John's post made me dig a little harder. On Friday I tried to register for next weekend despite not having a current certificate. To my surprise I could register and was just approved. I think its because I have something called a J-rating. I'm not sure exactly how PHRF updates are "supposed" to work. Last year I renewed without changes and got a new PDF PHRF certificate via email. This year I renewed without change and (so far) I did not get a PDF PHRF.
6. So I wonder if other noobs like me might be in the same situation… waiting but not knowing they have a J-rating.
7. I have to believe Laura is totally swamped and maybe sending out J-ratings so people can register without PDF PHRFs?
8. I checked with one of my new found SHTP SSS buddies and he got a new PDF PHRF this year, just like I did last year. I am wondering if there is some decision tree process like: Changes? Yes, then new PDF certificate / No, then J-rating and (maybe) PDF later… I dont know.
9. I took lots of screenshots from my account on the Jibeset pages that I got to via "Update Registration" that "kind of" explain a J-rating but someone here is surely able to tell me for example, as a J-rating owner, how I see my certificate.
10. I found a very old SSS post on J-rating: https://www.sfbaysss.org/forum/show...e-streamlined-the-rating-certificates-process I will include that in my write-up. Until Friday I had no idea what a J-rating was and I'm sure other noobs may not.
10. The relevant YRA page is https://yra.org/obtainacertificate/ and from that I was expecting to get a PDF. I'm sure if anyone else is J-rating, they might be in the same boat I was and waiting.
11. I have no idea, as in hopelessly unqualified, on how to help John but seems like at least guidance ought to be covered in rules like these: https://ircrating.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/IRC2023_rule.pdf Seems like he's not changing his handicap but doing the best he can to do the right thing.
12. Maybe if John requests a PHRF change then Laura can update with a J-rating? (I dont know, thats why I'm asking).

Mike on EOS
 
If you submitted and paid for your application it should be coming.

Be patient.

Don't expect responses right now.
Yes, Laura is swamped!

I submitted renewal, no changes, Jan02 and received pdf on the 17th.

Keep an eye on the YRA website or Jibeset/YRA prior to the New Year for them to open renewals.
https://www.jibeset.net/YRA000.php?RG=T036978841


J rating is internal between YRA and Jibeset.

I suggest submitting your race entry.
Email RC and let them know your certificate is pending WITHOUT CHANGES and they MIGHT be able to approve entry.

Looking at the original post I see John is concerned about a possible error.
You have been issued a rating, requesting changes likely put you on the bottom of the pile again.
How grievous is the error, will it put you from the top to back of the pack?

Doing well shorthanded, especially singlehanded, depends more on making fewer mistakes during the race, than a few seconds of rating.
 
I found this (attached), basically the exact scenario that John has, that might help John and Richard. From https://www.lbyc.org/files/2018CIS-SI-NOTICE TO COMPETITORS _1.pdf

View attachment 2018CIS-SI-NOTICE TO COMPETITORS _1.pdf

I do realize this is SoCal and their PHRF rules are different and they have a rule & process for clerical issues etc.

Also found the database of NorCal PHRF: http://yra.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/2024NCPHRFCertificates_AsOf012524.pdf

If you look at the current database I count 220 boats that Laura had to deal with around end of January. I think my PDF somehow got "lost". No worries.

I'm slowly figuring out how the process must work including the J Rating (also called J-rating in places).
 
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Re: GBR3068's question about the PRHF Certificate process at YRA and the use of certs at SSS.

Disclaimer 1: I help YRA a little but I am completely uninvolved in certs.
Disclaimer 2: I have never bought a PHRF cert.

To the best of my understanding, which may not be correct:

* YRA certs are valid for a calendar year, so every December 31 they're obsolete.
* YRA opens applications for new certificates on December 1 of the prior year, giving people a month to get their requests in early and reduce stress all around.
* YRA manually processes every application.
* Some YRA cerficates are simple renewals and are handled directly by YRA staff.
* Unique boat certificates (EG, added a bowsprit to a Soling) require review by the complete Northern California PHRF committee, which meets once a month.
* Once a certificate happens, the handicap goes at least three places: the cert itself, a PDF YRA publishes periodically with most of a boats' details, and into Jibeset as a "J-Rating" available to the system. This all appears to be manual as their are sometimes discrepancies.

* To reduce the last minute rush for certifcates that kept YRA and our race information officer frantically scrambling late into the night last year, this year we are charging a $10 "late registration" fee for registration in the last week. (Which seems to have helped a lot: we're down from ~150 boats registering in the last week to ~50 boats registering in the last week for Fiasco.)
* The SSS Three Bridge Fiasco drives an overwhelming amount of certificate business to YRA.
* To reduce the burden on YRA we have long accepted the obsolete prior-year certificates for Fiasco in January.
* At some race we have to require current-year certificates. That race also drives a great deal of certificate business to YRA. It's been Corinthian for at least several years, as people have had the bulk of three months to get a cert by then.

In conclusion:
* Applying early for a certificate appears to be a good way to reduce stress on the racer, on YRA, and on the SSS race information officer.
 
PSutchek said:
youve called her in person right ????
Click to expand...

I've called the listed YRA number roughly six times over the last two weeks, leaving a voicemail once. The website requests that you don't drop by the YRA office without an appointment, so I haven't called on her in person.

This isn't particularly critical, I was just wondering if I'd missed some avenue, or if something had gone really sideways at YRA. I'm happy to race on Saturday with the "new" (old) rating and if it should come down to a photo finish, I'll claim a silent victory. Or at worst, demand a compensatory beer from the winning boat.
 
I sent Laura an email over the holiday weekend and she responded immediately with a copy of my certificate in PDF. Wasn't Laura's fault at all, somehow the original email got lost, probably my fault. I had already registered though via J-Rating (though I didn't realize what I was doing … I was just pushing buttons). I reckon Richard's summary covers the most important stuff and he knows better than me. All I have to add is:

1. Looks to me like Laura usually responds and get the certificates out at most within a week of application. That means you shouldn't wait a month, like I did, to realize something is amiss.
2. If you think you are missing an email, check your J-Rating status at Jibeset and/or check your NCPHRF in the database at YRA, currently a link at the page http://yra.org/ratings/ Either would have told me I had probably screwed up and lost an email.
3. If you dont have a PDF but do have a J-Rating, you can still register. You use the "Attach" button on the page where you would normally upload your certificate. Hey presto. The downside is AFAIK you cant see your PDF certificate. Jibeset creator Ray Irvine explains: "In partnership with the Yacht Racing Association of San Francisco Bay, we are pleased to announce another step in reducing the effort in processing registrations by simplifying the processing of rating certificates and validating ratings. When YRA issues a certificate, the certificate year, the normal PHRF rating, the Downwind PHRF rating, and the date issued is sent to Jibeset. This data can only be updated by YRA and therefore always agrees with the latest certificate. Within Jibeset, this data is know as a Jrating. When a racer is required to provide his rating certificate, the Race Committee can allow the use of the J-rating instead of a PDF of the certificate. This removes the need for the racer to find and upload a PDF of their certificate. The J-rating validates the date the NCPHRF certificate was issued and the rating."

Once again thanks to Laura and hope this thread helps someone at some point.

Mike on EOS
 
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