• Ahoy and Welcome to the New SSS Forum!!

    As you can see, we have migrated our old forums to new software. All your old posts, threads, attachments, and messages should be here. If you see anything out of place or have any questions, please click Contact Us and leave a note with as much detail as possible.

    You should be able to login with your old credentials. If you have any issues, try resetting your password before clicking the Contact Us link.

    Cheers
    - SSS Technical Infrastructure

VHF and PFD straps for 2014

A

Allencoop

New member
The new requirement for a DSC/GPS/waterproof VHF and be filled with a Worst Marine VHF406 that is now on sale for $179. The comparable ICOm is $100 more. Not cheap but not the end of the world. Also Landfall has crotch straps for PFD's to meet this requirement so you don't have to replace your comfortable old PFD
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Defender Industries, always a good option for high priced national chain, has the Standard Horizon HX851 handheld for about $225 minus a $30.00 rebate. I think Santa delivered one under my tree last night. I'll find out later today when the family opens presents. Drat! Means I have to be nice and not cry for another few hours.

Landfall does have crotch straps, but you'll have to figure out how to attach them to your vest. I hope tying them on with Dyneema will pass the test. Otherwise it means opening some stitching somewhere and then restitching. -- Pat
 
Did'ja get the HX851, Pat? I found an Icom M92D under the tree!

I like Mustang's crotch strap accessory. It snaps over the existing PFD straps (not normal snaps, these are tough). I used this for a couple seasons until I got a Spinlock vest, which came with crotch straps (which I modified).

Here's the Mustang accessory:

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/ma3032.html
 
Last edited:
Bob, Yes the HX851 (Defender Ind.). I'm filling out the $30 rebate since Santa left that as well. The HX851 goes with my S-H Matrix AIS GX2100 and replaces my perfectly okay S-H HX 280S. Don't you just love all this "HX" "GX" and numeral stuff? I almost need a CPA to figure out all those figures for me! Or maybe one of thos WWII code breakers. Sometimes I think I'm talking into a fancy Italian sports car.

I looked at the Mustang crotch strap, but the description (below) seemed to indicate it would only snap on to Mustand or SOSpenders.

"The MA3032 life jacket Leg / Crotch Strap Assembly can be easily and securely attached to all CO2 gas inflatable lifejacket models by Mustang and SOSpenders. When properly attached to the PFD the Leg Strap Assembly provides an efficient means to prevent the vest from riding up in the water when the vest is worn over tactical equipment and inflated. Quick release buckles allow the user to easily doff the harness and accommodate removal of the vest when neither is required."

I have my Spinlock, which comes with its own thigh straps for ocean races.

Pat
 
I think the Mustang straps would snap onto most brands of inflatable PFD's. I'll try to remember to bring the PFD w/straps to the 3BF skippers' meeting in case anyone wants to look at it.

With the Spinlock Deckvest (mine is the 275N) I had trouble getting the thigh straps in the right place - fortunately no videos of the effort were taken. So I cut off the short, horizontal piece of the strap and use them like the Mustang straps, which are much easier to put on and take off. As originally installed, I wouldn't have used the Spinlock straps most of the time (so why have them?).

Caveat/disclosure etc.: The GPS/DSC-enabled handheld and crotch straps (discussed in this thread) will be required in 2014 for races falling under the NorCalORC Minimum Offshore Requirements. These requirements were listed in last year's MOR to be effective 1/1/2014, so there's nothing new here. Affected races are OYRA and SSS ocean races.
 
Last edited:
A few years ago I added this crotch strap to each of my inflatable PFD/harnesses:

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/sacs1000.html

I connected the back loops to the PFD harness (which could not be opened without cutting the strap stitching) using SS split rings from Svendsens. A retired coastie suggested the split ring connection. The rings are similar to these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-25mm-FL...it-Ring-Tactical-Black-ill-Gear-/190875031608

I lived with one of these on during the 2012 SHTP and in day races and haven't had a problem moving around or sleeping (the rings lie flat when you lean against a bulkhead and I don't feel them).

Steve
S/V Frolic
 
BobJ said:
Caveat/disclosure etc.: The GPS/DSC-enabled handheld and crotch straps (discussed in this thread) will be required in 2014 for races falling under the NorCalORC Minimum Offshore Requirements. These requirements were listed in last year's MOR to be effective 1/1/2014, so there's nothing new here. Affected races are OYRA and SSS ocean races.
Click to expand...

Is there a US Sailing Safety at Sea class required to participate in SSS Half Moon Bay, Drakes Bay, and/or SHF race for 2014?

Thanks,
Todd
 
I've done both the full 2-day ISAF version and also the 1-day USS 'lite' version. The ISAF is way better, you actually fire flares, and jump in the harbor in full foulies and then get into a raft. Very much worth the extra time and expense, if your goal is to get experience vs. just getting the ticket punched.
 
Can someone explain the 30% requirement for offshore racers? Does this mean all single handed sailors have to take this training?
-Steve
 
Last edited:
Steevee said:
Can someone explain the 30% requirement for offshore racers? Does this mean all single handed sailors have to take this training?
-Steve
Click to expand...
That's right. All singlehanders doing ocean races in the Gulf of the Farallones (SH TransPac is not covered by these rules), and the skipper for doublehanded boats.
 
I think it's CRAP that we have to spend $$$ for a piece of VHF equipment which would be useful only until barely out of sight of
the Gate? I already have the following means to call the Coast Guard: Rocket Flares, HH Red Flares, Orange Smoke, VHF w/
masthead antenna (true, one must talk into it), 2 hand held VHFs (same as last), Satellite Fone with Alameeda CG fone nos. on
my nav sta bulkhead, SSB radio capable of direct commo or thru Ham nets (I'm licensed) to connect with the Coasties. Oh, and
cell phone which should work as far out as the VHF does.
I still don't see the need! You people have rolled over and are still suffering from the Farallon race. I have never gone near those
islands in 12 SHTPs. Again, there is only one way to make what we do SAFE....(see my previous post).
 
In my opinion you are right about the most recent Farallones incident causing a big over-reaction on the equipment side. The initial response was a push for adoption of the ISAF Offshore Special Regulations, most likely Category 2, for our local ocean races. If you've read that document you know how onerous and unnecessary that would have been. Fortunately the outcome was to take SSS's existing requirements for races outside the Gate and add a (very) few items, and then adopt that for OYRA, SSS and other local OA's to use if they choose. The Safety-at-Sea class required this year was one of those additions.

All to say - it was headed in a direction that would have been worse than what we ended up with.

What's cool is that SSS's core requirements (for races outside the Gate but not including the SHTP), with the local additions, became the "Coastal" requirements list now being used by US Sailing (nationwide). Finally, ISAF is now rewriting the OSR's to make them simpler and easier to use. ISAF is worldwide. Therefore, I like to think our band of local rebels had an international impact on trimming this stuff back and making it more reasonable. For those who think this is a good thing, give credit where it's due: The group that made it happen was the NorCalORC committee including Max Crittenden and Jim Quanci and headed by OYRA's Andy Newell. For those who don't think it's a good thing - it was some other guys.
 
Last edited:
I don't blame SSS for these knee jerk changes. It's the do-gooders who come up with stuff that makes them feel good, even if it completely misses the mark. "There was a problem and we did something about it". So thank us....
 
Harrier said:
I don't blame SSS for these knee jerk changes. It's the do-gooders who come up with stuff that makes them feel good, even if it completely misses the mark. "There was a problem and we did something about it". So thank us....
Click to expand...

Yeah, the new VHF requirement seems pretty silly. In 3 separate local meetings, where the USCG was present, I asked USCG if one was to choose a safety device, between the VHF with DSC/GPS or a PLB, they unanimously replied "PLB", and further explained under many questions that the PLB had an infrastructure that could site and locate a user anywhere. They cited cases in the Gulf of the Farallon's where VHF failed due to hills, cliffs blocking their visibility of the user. The people from USCG I asked included the SAR commander and the local commander.

I wonder how we arrived at a handheld VHF device ?

Having said this, maybe we should consider waiving this requirement for the SHTP. It adds really limited value given it would be worthless beyond the Farallon's .
 
I'm not sailing the SSS TransPac, but if I WERE singlehanding, I'd think of my handheld DSC/GPS radio as another layer of protection in the (I know) unlikely circumstances that I found myself detached from my boat, floating in the water. Since I also have my PLB hooked on, I'd get it turned on, but I don't think any SSS colleagues in their, hopefully, nearby boats hear that. They just might, just might get the DSC alarm and be able to come to my assistance - probably much sooner than a passing ship.

How might I become detached? If I believed that every SSS TransPac sailor actually snapped on each time he/she left the cabin I also believe I have a nearby bridge you might want to buy. I've seen the pictures/video. Even tethering on might not be enough since being dragged along at 7 or 8 knots might bring about a decision to take my chances floating rather than drowning. I think that's a major reason why our tethers have the snap shackle at the person end?

PLBs are, i think, a necessity too, but equally necessary is the willingness to have it hooked on to the PFD. Again, I doubt seriously if everyone does that. If you check some of my earlier posts about looking dorky with all those PLBs, VHFs, Flare pack, GPS, etc hanging around my neck or hooked onto my PFD you,'ll find responses questioning my sanity or poking fun. A manual EPIRB or PLB safely stowed below can't be much help in a sudden emergency. Even one carefully stowed in the cockpit is a remote chance if the cockpit's occupant ain't in the cockpit.

I'm helping Jim deliver "Green Buffalo" back from the PacCup and I plan to look like the proverbial Emergency Doughboy, especially during my night watches ,PLB and handheld DSC/GPS radio attached. Oh yes, and a pack of flares and a waterproof LED flashlight. --Pat
 
With the boat's VHF connected to my chartplotter, a DSC signal from a MOB's handheld will place a target on the screen so I can navigate to the MOB. If a few other boats are similarly equipped, we'll all be headed for the MOB before the PLB data even reaches the CG. That's pretty valuable in our 50-55 degree water.

But agreed, it's only relevant in the SHTP at the ends of the course.
 
In the opinion of the USCG the probability of another vessel hearing you is slim to none. In 1998 I lost a rudder on the way to Hawaii. There were running lights in sight. I called on VHF and shot off flares. No response. This from the mast head VHF. In 2012, another Hawaii adventure. I crossed paths at night several times with other boats, easily within visual range. No response on 16. I tend to agree with the USCG, the safest solution is a PLB or EPIRB.

Are you carrying both devices on your person while on deck ? And if so how do you keep them from not interfering with general boat handling ? I have found it tough to find a vest that can accommodate both devices reliably.

Brian
 
brianb said:
In the opinion of the USCG the probability of another vessel hearing you is slim to none. In 1998 I lost a rudder on the way to Hawaii. There were running lights in sight. I called on VHF and shot off flares. No response. This from the mast head VHF. In 2012, another Hawaii adventure. I crossed paths at night several times with other boats, easily within visual range. No response on 16. I tend to agree with the USCG, the safest solution is a PLB or EPIRB.

Are you carrying both devices on your person while on deck ? And if so how do you keep them from not interfering with general boat handling ? I have found it tough to find a vest that can accommodate both devices reliably.

Brian
Click to expand...

Regular old handheld VHF http://www.sfbama.org/fs/Dramatic%20Rescue%20in%20DHF.pdf

3 hr wait for helo. 80 degree core temp (50% mortality rate)- GPIRB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WeVGdTpi2s

Flares
http://http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets/Offshore/Hanson+Award/1999/3_1_99.pdf

"Digital Electronic" 360 degree "flare"
Rescue 21- VHF/DSC/GPS handheld- your boat can find you, fellow racers, and CG (coastal)
http://www.uscg.mil/acquisition/rescue21/dsc.asp

Final resort is EPIRB to ensure CG can rescue/recovery- that may be why you're hearing the epirb message from CG. (or venue or singlehanded?)
bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top