What is the oldest boat ever to complete the SSS SHTP?

[Black Jack]

I was pondering the idea of sailing one of the oldest boat to ever compete in the SHTP as a way to get the boat to begin a series of legs of pacific navigations. It would be a good record to hold too. Does any one know who holds that record now and what kind it was?

Dorade holds the oldest Transpac record when it competed a few years ago. I was thinking I could get pretty close to that aged record holder in singlehanded racing. Speed of course would be another issue.

Had I had time and resources that I have now, I would have saved Polaris built at the Stone yard in 1906 and done exactly that.

 

[Dazzler]

Anyone else able to ID the sailmaker’s insignia / logo on those sails?
This is a quiz, with no prize....

 

[AlanH]

I seem to recall someone taking a Golden Gate across. A Golden Gate is basically a miniature Bird Boat, but you know that.

 

[Black Jack]

Ted,
Best to do a little research before you post on public forums things that are not true.

Maybe there was a miss reading or grammatical error in OP. Forgive me. I am severely dyslectic which is often revealed in my silly inquires or personal reflections.
My question or consideration was based it was on their website material and has been widely published that Dorade at 83 in 2013 had been the oldest boat to compete in the race. https://transpacyc.com/history/facts/transpacs-historic-highlights




It should be noted that in 2019 Chubasco built in 1939 sailed as the oldest boat in the fleet.

 

[Dazzler]

I did misunderstand considering the first Transpac was in 1906.

The 1980 SHTP race was won by the oldest boat entered. Bob Counts sailed his 25-foot Golden Gate Sanderling to a first in class and fleet.

 

[Black Jack]

I did misunderstand considering the first Transpac was in 1906.

The 1980 SHTP race was won by the oldest boat entered. Bob Counts sailed his 25-foot Golden Gate Sanderling to a first in class and fleet.

Thank you Tom & Alan! It must have been a ride and a story to match in that great bay boat. I haven't seen a Golden Gate on the bay in a long time. The last one i saw was sitting on Craigs list waiting for a savior. The Bird boat I had nearly brought me to divorce and more importantly almost killed me before i off loaded it to a better home with a larger purse.


A Guide to the George H. Wayland naval architectural drawings
San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park, National Park Service

George Wayland is particularly well remembered as the architect who redesigned John Alden's 1922 original Bird class design, which measured 29 feet. In 1926 the Bird Boat association paid Wayland $100 to redesign the Bird Boat, which resulted in the 25 foot Golden Gate Design Class One, otherwise known as the Baby Bird design.

According to Thomas Skahill, George Wayland was "something of an unsung master during his lifetime [but his boat designs] remain in high regard by the West Coast maritime community." He was an important mentor to noted Bay Area yacht designer and builder Myron Spaulding; Myron Spaulding collected and preserved this collection of George Wayland's naval architectural plans. Examples of George Wayland's design drawings can be found in other collections held by the park.

 

[seawisdom]

As an older classic boat sailor, I think it's worth a chat on the topic of "senior" division. It's already a lot of work to get a boat ready for the SHTP, and it's A LOT MORE work to get a boat to be prepared when she is beyond a certain vintage. LOL!

 

[Ian Rogers]

Rumbleseat??? I think she was built in 1930.

 

[solosailor]

Rumbleseat was likely the oldest original build but was completely rebuilt including a more modern keel and I believe rig before Bruce did the SHTP.

 

[sleddog]

This photo of POLARIS shows the "Mitchell Zap" sailmakers logo near the clews. Punky Mitchell was a very good Star sailor of the 60's and made his own sails. His small sail loft was upstairs where the Hood Loft is now in Sausalito. Commodore Tompkins had rigged a test mast on the roof, and mid morning, before the breeze made up, you could often see spinnakers being tested on the roof.

Punky ended up selling his loft to Tom Blackaller and Steve Taft and it became a North Sails branch loft. John Berry Marine Hardware was downstairs and next door.

Punky Mitchell, and Star class friends who gathered at his loft, revolutionized the Star when they discovered, in the big breeze of SF Bay, a Star was fastest with extreme rake in the mast, so much so the tip of the boom lay nearly on deck.

This changed crewing a Star, as the skipper, when tacking, could no longer slide over the top of the tiller but had to go under on a tack.

All modern Stars now sail with max rake, so the boom tip is just inches above the deck at the transom.



Can anyone tell me what is older: The Starboat, or POLARIS?. They are both older than a century. But there are now over 8,000 Stars built and only one POLARIS.

 

[Ian Rogers]

View attachment 6281

This photo of POLARIS shows the "Mitchell Zap" sailmakers logo near the clews. Punky Mitchell was a very good Star sailor of the 60's and made his own sails. His small sail loft was upstairs where the Hood Loft is now in Sausalito. Commodore Tompkins had rigged a test mast on the roof, and mid morning, before the breeze made up, you could often see spinnakers being tested on the roof.

Punky ended up selling his loft to Tom Blackaller and Steve Taft and it became a North Sails branch loft. John Berry Marine Hardware was downstairs and next door.

Punky Mitchell, and Star class friends who gathered at his loft, revolutionized the Star when they discovered, in the big breeze of SF Bay, a Star was fastest with extreme rake in the mast, so much so the tip of the boom lay nearly on deck.

This changed crewing a Star, as the skipper, when tacking, could no longer slide over the top of the tiller but had to go under on a tack.

All modern Stars now sail with max rake, so the boom tip is just inches above the deck at the transom.

View attachment 6282

Can anyone tell me what is older: The Starboat, or POLARIS?. They are both older than a century. But there are now over 6,000 Stars built and only one POLARIS.

Without cheating I am going to say Polars is older. I said on her as a kid when Tom list owned her.

 

[sleddog]

Without cheating I am going to say Polars is older. I sailed on her as a kid when Tom list owned her.

Hi Ian,

In the dim past, the Star's common ancestor was the New Haven Sharpie, which can be traced back to 1835. They had two masts with leg-of-mutton sails, but no jib. Next came the Nonpareil Sharpie, built in 1880. It had a slight V bottom, another step toward the Star hull. All of these little boats, up to this point, had centerboards. The type was not considered especially adaptable for racing, nevertheless, several more or less unsuccessful attempts were made in that direction. There was the Mascot of 1879, a big lumbering craft with little speed. Then the Question, built in 1895, and the Departure which appeared in 1896 and was designed by William Gardner to beat the Newport 30's. It was able to do so in a breeze or with plenty of reaching, but not otherwise. The Departure has straight sides, a chine and a fin keel. It is the last connecting link, in an unbroken chain, from the primitive log canoe to the Bug class, the Star's immediate predecessor and prototype.

Francis Sweisguth (1882-1970), a draftsman for William Gardner, was the true designer and developer of the Star. The 17' Bug, an earlier and smaller version of the Star with a 150 pound keel, had proven too small and wet for comfortable (!) racing after being launched in 1906 and raced in waters around New York City and Long Island.

Thus was birthed the Star Class in 1910-1911. During the winter of 1910-1911 twenty-two Star boats were built by Ike Smith of Port Washington, NY, for a Long Island Sound group of racing sailors. Francis Sweisguth was one of the original owners of the Star Class yachts built by Smith, and Sweisguth owned Star # 6 from 1911 to 1915.

The Star, as originally drawn by Sweisguth, was a gaff rigged boat with a long boom, typical for racing boats of the day. The luff of the mainsail was 24"11" as opposed to 30’6" now used on the modern Star rig. The then foot of the mainsail was 18’4" as opposed to current 14’7". As the Star Class continued to grow and develop during the late 1910’s and early 1920’s it became clear that the rig should be modernized. The first step was to change the rig from a gaff rig to Marconi. This changeover occurred gradually during the early 1920’s. The same mainsail could be used on either rig....

Interestingly, when Lowell North was the best Star sailor in the world, having won 4 World Championships, he was an advocate for a radical change to the Star design: eliminate the bulb keel for a daggerboard and go with both skipper and crew on traps. Whoa!

Newport Harbor (CA) sponsored the move from wood to fiberglass Stars in 1962, and the Star Class, going strong after 111 years, remains the pinnacle of One Design keelboat competition. Even John F. Kennedy and younger brother Bobby Kennedy raced Stars back in the day.

But....could POLARIS, on which you sailed as a kid, be older than the Star?

TBC

 

[sleddog]

Hi Ian,
But....could POLARIS, on which you sailed as a kid, be older than the Star?
TBC

I am not one to dispute Spaulding Marine Center in Sausalito "which maintains a fleet of restored or newly built wooden sailboats and rowboats available to students at the Center and to the public. The 34-foot gaff rigged sailboat, POLARIS, a carvel-built (fir planks butted edge to edge on oak ribs) pumpkinseed sloop, which was built on San Francisco Bay in 1906, is currently available for skippered sails at the Center."

If the Star Class was launched in 1911, and POLARIS in 1906, POLARIS is older by five years. And after FREDA, she likely is the second oldest boat sailing SF Bay.

Interesting, at some point in her life, POLARIS was converted from centerboard to keel.

If any one can add more information, please feel free to jump in. My guess is Tom List, long time owner of POLARIS, knows more than anyone.

 

[Black Jack]

Last year before I picked up Pretty Penny, I inquired with my friends in the Master Mariners; Paul Dines and Tom List where Polaris was. She had been sitting at the San Rafael basin for a couple of years. I had always loved the boat. Blown away the first time I saw her in the 1970s on the bay sailed by a darling senior shorthanded couple whom owned her for decades before Tom List. The pumpkin seed hull, the gaff rig, the victorian cabin and cockpit were idealized in a way that brought back history and a connection to the Jack London era. So different from the boats from my childhood sailing in the Canal Zone, summers in Barnegat bay, Kaneohe & Waikiki and the St. Petersburg Y.C. I have always never been truly driven professionally in occupation, more artist/dreamer/adventurer than shipwright or racer. I spent a bunch of time reading, learning and taking programs of apprenticeship in wooden boat construction used in my numerous restorations which I brought from the brink (with the help of Sven Svenson and Myron Spaulding, and many others from the old Richmond boat works including a favorite friend and supporter Patty Henderson to whom much of my passion for wooden sailing vessels was made viable). In an attempt to becoming worthy of a boat like Polaris I worked tirelessly for the MMBA, sitting on its board for several years and still am deeply involved in support of the sponsorship and regatta itself. There were times I tried to make a play for Polaris but were stalled due to lack of insider connections, my youthfulness in comparison, raising a family in the expensive bay area and months of being on the road on news and production assignments.

Getting back to what was told to me, Paul Dines, staff commodore for the MMBA let me know Polaris was lost two years ago on the rocks and beach near half moon bay when her new inexperienced owner who sought to mover her down the coast. The news saddened me deeply. It was not only a loss to one of the most significant historical San Francisco vessels which i loved but the terminus to a direction long held for my life's path.