Deck organizers

[Philpott]

Two years ago, when Jay Butler ordered deck hardware for my boat he asked whether I wanted double or triple organizers. He said "you can never have too many organizers". I couldn't imagine needing more than 6 lines, but now I do. My reefing lines alone use up 4 sheaves. Has anybody stacked the Shaefer organizers? I know they can be purchased stacked, but I didn't.

 

[BobJ]

The J/105's have Schaefer deck organizers, and an owner wanted to bring the vang tails aft for cockpit release. We couldn't figure out how to stack another set on top, and there wasn't room at the corners of the seahood to use the longer single-level type. The Schaefers are rounded on the ends and don't lend themselves to stacking.

Whatever you do, with all the load on them you don't want ANY movement. I'd be hesitant to do anything other than replace the single-height organizers with 2 over 2's or 3 over 3's (if you have the 500 series; the smaller 300 series are only single-height). At least you should be able to use the existing holes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schaefer-Deck-Organizer-Aluminum-3-sheave-303-81-/281464806560

On a related point, cockpit-led reefing lines often put a downward load on the gooseneck for which it wasn't designed. Inspect the gooseneck regularly, especially the machine screws that attach it to the boom. Again, you don't want any movement there. (Ask Gamayun.)

 

[Gamayun]

Shooot. I rarely reef ;-) The boom seems to fall off whenever it wants! Just make sure to use correctly-sized bolts whatever you do. That seems to be a good mantra to use on a boat at all times.

I have one double organizer with three on top and three on the bottom. They've served Kynntana well (probably original since 1987) so there's something to be said for the old style. It's one of the few things that I haven't replaced...yet.

 

[Philpott]

I'd be hesitant to do anything other than replace the single-height organizers with 2 over 2's or 3 over 3's (if you have the 500 series; the smaller 300 series are only single-height). At least you should be able to use the existing holes. url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Schaefer-Deck-Organizer-Aluminum-3-sheave-303-81-/281464806560[/url]

Well, now, mine came with extra long screws and I didn't cut 'em off down below. If I stacked another set on top, using those same long screws through the existing holes, I just wonder whether there would be much movement? Has anybody tried to do this? I guess, like Dave Morris always says: "Well, try it. Y'won't know till you do."

 

[Gamayun]

I don't know the answers to your specific questions (though I'm all for "trying it and seeing what happens"), but would think that if your bolt is long enough to get the nut back on with enough threads showing and tightened well, then there shouldn't be any movement. You might want to add some backing plates against the nuts and washers just in case there is a bit of extra loading at that point along the lines. Mine also looks like it has some sort of plate over the organizers on the outside that is bolted down on each side. I can send you a picture next time I'm at the boat.

 

[BobJ]

At the risk of over-analyzing this, my concern is that the two mounting bolts are also the spindles for the sheaves. My Harken organizers (for example) are mounted with four bolts at the corners so the sheaves turn on independent spindles.

When you stack these and tighten down the bolts adequately, you may pinch the sheaves so they won't turn. Hopefully there are bushings to prevent this. You'll also have a little wedge at the ends that lines could catch in. But the consensus is to give it a try . . .

 

[bizirka]

Good luck! I am replacing everything with these:

http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=41608

 

[Philpott]

Good luck! I am replacing everything with these:
http://www.harken.com/productdetail.aspx?id=41608

Well, now. That's a thought, too. With cam cleats just where I need 'em. At half the price. And I will be sure to remember to "... NOT use Harken Equipment for Human suspension". Although with a moniker like Bizirka I wonder what you yourself might use instead for Human suspension?

 

[bizirka]

Breaking load is 4000 lb - surely, most sailors need only half of that to 'suspend' themselves.

 

[BobJ]

These low friction rings, fairleads etc. are definitely catching on - I've replaced several blocks with them on my boat. They have more friction than a turning sheave however, and are best used in applications where line movement under load is limited. I would not run a halyard through one unless the angle was shallow. Also, Biz's Olson 30 is a light boat with usually light rigging loads.

 

[bizirka]

I am giving them a try everywhere, light boats make this more feasible - except for applications where line movement is constant and under load (as Bob mentioned). I am completely redoing my deck, standing/running rigging and figure if it doesn't work well in one application I can always go back to the standard setup and reuse them in another application.

 

[Philpott]

They have more friction than a turning sheave however, and are best used in applications where line movement under load is limited. I would not run a halyard through one unless the angle was shallow.

D'you think they would be okay for DM's spin halyard, downhaul and topping lift?

 

[BobJ]

Doubtful for the halyard unless the organizer is turning the lead less than 45 degrees or so. If the partly-hoisted kite fills and you have to winch it up the rest of the way, that will be a lot of friction without a sheave. The downhaul/foreguy is also under a lot of load and must be adjusted frequently. The topper would be okay.

But you're asking an accountant when you should be asking a rigger. (Cue the General: "What's a rigger?")

 

[Harrier]

Desk Organizers

A "rigger" is someone who calls himself that.
Your advice to DuraMater is good. My advice is simple...always use a sheave.

 

[BobJ]

Desk Organizers - yep, I could really use some of those about now.

I just dug through my rigging box 'cause I thought I had a pair of Harken organizers that are compact enough to fit inboard of your Schaefers. Now that I think about it, they're probably installed on a wing-sailed, foiling cruising cat that hails from Capitola.

 

[pogen]

I have a few of those ring thingys on my mast base, for reefing lines and maybe the topper -- they work a lot better with modern slippery hi-tech line.

 

[sleddog]

I just dug through my rigging box 'cause I thought I had a pair of Harken organizers that are compact enough to fit inboard of your Schaefers. Now that I think about it, they're probably installed on a wing-sailed, foiling cruising cat that hails from Capitola.

Thanks to RAGTIME!'s generosity, his Harken organizer's are indeed screwed onto WF's cabin top. In fact, most of WF's deck and spar hardware came from RAGTIME's used equipment locker. In reciprocity I'm starting a fund drive to buy BobJ some desk organizers.

 

[pogen]

I have a few of those ring thingys on my mast base, for reefing lines and maybe the topper -- they work a lot better with modern slippery hi-tech line.

Here's my setup by the way -- main, genoa, 2 spin halyards, 2 reef, and topper -- now upgraded to a 2nd topper.

2 X 2-over-2 organizers

Work done by GC Rigging.

 

[BobJ]

Looks great Pogs. Which line is which?

Those are the same 2 over 2 Harkens that Rags has. With the corner bolts and the molded inner ends, you can even cheat and get two more thin (single braid) lines through them.

I just got a batch of those Harken lash-on blocks for my mainsheet (like you have for the vang tails). They are less than a quarter of the weight of the blocks they're replacing but have the same working load. I'm also losing the SS boom bails (replacing with webbing) and you heard it here first, Jim Antrim designed a new carbon fiber boom for Rags. I should have it for Round the Rocks. The old boom was cracking through at the vang attachment.

Fun $tuff . . .

 

[brianb]

I have my doubts about that Antal ring on your deck. That looks like a high load halyard ? You are putting a lot of force on that ring and the friction with that load could get considerable. I suppose it works ? Let us know, but I would be fearful of quick wear and breakage.