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Does the Delorme InReach Explorer satisfy the Comm reqs for Transpac?

bizirka said:
Perhaps this isn't necessary - but, to be clear I started this thread to find the most affordable way (trying to avoid satphone/SSB) to stay within the rules NOT get around them.

I was hoping that the standard 'transat mini issued' SSB receiver (by the way is there anything better than the 10+ year old Sony ICF-SW7600GR) would satisfy the weather receiving portion of the rule and the delorme would satisfy the the position reporting and act as a backup for receiving weather.

Perhaps I am not following correctly, but I gather that the delorme weather provides a 'single grib' at a specific location (either current or a selected lat/lon).

I appreciate peoples expertise here!
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Jiri - FWIW I think that either or both satisfy the requirement...
I believe the Delorme simply draws a square grib snapshot around it's present location.
 
pogen said:
I also don't at all understand how we are "discouraging.. sponsors" with a fee. The whole point of sponsors is they contribute financially, or in kind, or else they are not sponsors.
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By charging double entry fee to sponsored entrants. In both SHTP's I did, I was forced to pay significantly more money to enter the race than "non-sponsored", i.e. "Corinthian" entries. Sponsorship was defined as running a sponsor's logo on your boat. The rule was supposedly created to deter the "big French pro guys" from taking over our race. All it did in my case was create a financial burden for a young kid with no money who already needed industry help to do the race in the first place. Sort of like having a working sat phone on my Moore yet no weather data, it seemed sort of silly and counter-productive.

If the race got rid of any financial penalty to run a sponsor's logo, then that would probably increase the likelihood of local marine businesses offering discounts to SHTP racers or doing "soft sponsorship" with decals and representation in exchange for donated materials, discounts or financial support. I can only imagine abandoning any restrictions on "sponsored" entries would save several participants a grip of money and likely engage the race with the local marine industry. sounds like a win-win to me.

again, just my 2 cents, sorry to get so far off topic.
 
BobJ said:
there's a big difference between the skipper receiving weather information (he then has to interpret) and the skipper receiving routing advice: "When you reach <lat> <lon> turn 10 degrees to port."

If the DeLorme gadget will be required and it supplies NOAA data in some other form, it seems that receiving that data should be okay since everyone is receiving the same thing - just add it to the list of acceptable data.
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No doubt Bob, I agree with you 100%. However, in the eyes of the rules as they are written, there is no difference in receiving this info vs. receiving the routing, unless it's coming from some type of paid service. (Sail Mail, the Delorme grib thing, downloading gribs with expensive data, etc) Currently, that is "outside assistance".

Later in your quote, you mention "adding it to the list of acceptable data".

So, could the rules not be amended to allow a friend to basically read gribs to you and relay to an SHTP competitor via text on their Delorme? This creates a grey area, but it's already a sport on the honor code... If someone really wants to cheat in a boat race, well, Donald Crowhurst.

Would it be allowable for a friend to tell a competitor, "the high is forming, 1030 mb, centered at xxxN xxxW, trades looking 15-20 knots between 1018 and 1022 mb" or something like that? Essentially reading a grib to a friend FOR FREE, and being on the honor code to not tell them how to sail?

How do we strike the right compromise of making the weather as EASY AS POSSIBLE to get into the hands of ALL participants, even those on basic boats like the guy who started the thread and only has an SSB receiver and a Delorme? Coincidentally, this was my same set up on way from CA to New Zealand last year and will be my set up from SF to Hawaii next week. In this modern day and age, being able to receive weather data over simple SMS text changes the game entirely. This is all I am really arguing is to update, or at least clarify, the rules to allow modern tech to be used to bring everyone back on the same playing field. When I cruise or do deliveries and am not confined to rules, the easiest, most practical way for me - by far - to get data is just to take my Delorme or sat phone and communicate with someone on land. Perhaps we change the rules to allow this, just no explicit routing?

Is the goal to be self sufficient in this race and stick to tradition, or is the goal to use the resources that are reasonably available to the most participants in hopes that everyone gets there safe?
 
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Hi Ronnie,

Per the RRCs (http://sfbaysss.org/resource/shtp2016/2016RRC_Final_111315.pdf), the additional fee for sponsored entries is $400. I guess the presumption is that a sponsored entry would receive a lot more than that from one or more sponsors. An entrant would only have to pay this fee once, I think, no mater how many sponsors or stickers one might wish to put on the boat, so that if you had 10 sponsors at $200 each you would still be well ahead.

It's true that this is mostly a historical artifact. I don't think PacCup charges more for sponsored entries. They seem to have at least two entered for 2016 so far. In our race the sponsored entries are few and far between.

When I did PacCup I proposed to my boss, the president of the company I was working for, that if the company bought me a new spinnaker I would put the company logo on it. He laughed.
 
ronnie simpson said:
Is the goal to be self sufficient in this race and stick to tradition, or is the goal to use the resources that are reasonably available to the most participants in hopes that everyone gets there safe?
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I think your questions are rhetorical, especially the last one.
 
bizirka said:
Perhaps this isn't necessary - but, to be clear I started this thread to find the most affordable way (trying to avoid satphone/SSB) to stay within the rules NOT get around them.

I was hoping that the standard 'transat mini issued' SSB receiver (by the way is there anything better than the 10+ year old Sony ICF-SW7600GR) would satisfy the weather receiving portion of the rule and the delorme would satisfy the the position reporting and act as a backup for receiving weather.

Perhaps I am not following correctly, but I gather that the delorme weather provides a 'single grib' at a specific location (either current or a selected lat/lon).

I appreciate peoples expertise here![/QUOTE

That is about right however OCENS provides a 24, 48 or 72 hr location based forecast. You pay a couple bucks more for the extended forecasts. Send OCENS a query from the Inreach and you get a response within a few minutes. It was pretty cool. Pretty accurate too, that 30Kts came in right on schedule.

The "Delorme weather" in this context is simply a compact e-mailed forecast from OCENS.

BTW, Inreach is equipped with wireless (explorer is anyway) and an app which can be loaded on the tablet/phone (droid or i). Then you can tap out messages on the tablet and avoid the utterly useless data entry screen on the inreach.
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One way to even the playing field, from a weather and routing standpoint, would be to allow your homie to give you some advice over the (sat) phone, or via a text message to your Delorme FOR FREE. Technically, this would make outside assistance the very CHEAPEST way of receiving weather data. I can recall two Singlehanded Transpacs where I had little or no weather data at times, but had a functioning sat phone and had to resist every temptation to "cheat" and ask my friend for advice. I can't imagine everyone resists that urge, all the time, every time. When I was on the Moore 24, I was literally hand-steering blind with no weather data - probably not very safe - but had a working sat phone. That is stupid.
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Horrible idea.

Commanders Weather will route you brilliantly to Hawaii for a couple of hundred bucks, and will package daily data and routing advice, based on your polars.
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Talk about an arms race...... how many boats actually have polars for this race? 1 out of 10? How many have accurate polar and Expedition and know how to use it?

Combine that expense with a sat phone or a Delorme and professional shore-based routers are now cheaper (and arguably infinitely better) than any old school solution such as an SSB.
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This is a singlehanded race that you do singlehanded, by yourself, without any outside assistance. Now we need to hire shoreside routers? Talk about an arms race.

Let's stop kidding ourselves that we're avoiding an arms race within the SHTP by disallowing outside support and discouraging (through monetary fee) outside sponsorship, local industry support, etc.
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I don't think we are kidding ourselves and the formula has worked for decades.
 
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By charging double entry fee to sponsored entrants. In both SHTP's I did, I was forced to pay significantly more money to enter the race than "non-sponsored", i.e. "Corinthian" entries.
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"Forced", nice. No one forced you to get sponsorship.

All it did in my case was create a financial burden for a young kid with no money who already needed industry help to do the race in the first place.
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Create a financial burden? Really? Nearly everyone who has ever done this race did it on their own dime and for most it was a great financial burden..... you know, they went to work and earned it, spent it. I think your going to rub a lot of people the wrong way who worked and saved to do the race. Only a handful of people have ever used sponsorship and all this talk is really a non-issue.

"Needed industry help to do the race"? Sorry, no you didn't.
 
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Would it be allowable for a friend to tell a competitor, "the high is forming, 1030 mb, centered at xxxN xxxW, trades looking 15-20 knots between 1018 and 1022 mb" or something like that? Essentially reading a grib to a friend FOR FREE, and being on the honor code to not tell them how to sail?
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Really, this is the vision you have for the SHTP? Call your shoreside router for the rundown? The minis don't have sophisticated weather maps, routing, etc. and is considered the pinnacle of "pure" singlehanded sailing. I'm not aware of any major offshore race that allows outside routing?
 
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solosailor said:
Really, this is the vision you have for the SHTP? Call your shoreside router for the rundown? The minis don't have sophisticated weather maps, routing, etc. and is considered the pinnacle of "pure" singlehanded sailing. I'm not aware of any major offshore race that allows outside routing?
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The Mini fleet also gets location specific weather data relayed to them BY THE RACE COMMITTEE
 
solosailor said:
"Forced", nice. No one forced you to get sponsorship.

Create a financial burden? Really? Nearly everyone who has ever done this race did it on their own dime and for most it was a great financial burden..... you know, they went to work and earned it, spent it. I think your going to rub a lot of people the wrong way who worked and saved to do the race. Only a handful of people have ever used sponsorship and all this talk is really a non-issue.

"Needed industry help to do the race"? Sorry, no you didn't.
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So the people who "went to work, earned it, spent it", i.e. - Corinthian sailors with day jobs, i.e. - people who likely DON'T have industry connections, wholesale accounts, etc, (and are probably paying retail) wouldn't want to save money on doing the race? I bet if you took a poll, they would want to save money on race-related expenses, if possible. By removing any financial penalty to receive sponsorship, I am pretty confident that local marine businesses would at least offer reasonable discounts to participants who ran a decal on their boat in exchange. That's all I was advocating. 10% off of a 20 grand tab is 2 grand. The average bug lighter claims to spend 20k to do the race.

and Greg, I didn't really ask for your inflammatory personal attacks, but yes i did need industry help to do the race. a generous individual loaned me a boat and lined up a sponsor for the 2010 race, based on reading an article about me. I had a loaned boat that I couldn't afford to campaign and no money, yet was lined up with a sponsor and entered in the race. I lived on that boat before the race. So yeah, I sorta did need industry help and in many ways was forced to find sponsorship. Same in 2012, I eventually had to sell my live aboard the week before the race to pay for the life raft.
 
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The Mini fleet also gets location specific weather data relayed to them BY THE RACE COMMITTEE
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Now that a good idea as fair distribution of weather information goes...... Since that device is likely to be used as the fleet tracker it would be fair to allow NOAA weather to come through this route.
 
I mean no disrespect to you Greg. This is a public forum about a sailboat race. I'm just spitballing here and tossing around ideas that may help. Maybe they won't. Just engaging in the conversation, since a thread was started about using a Delorme to satisfy the race requirements
 
Says the guy who has well-defined polars and is well versed in Expedition.
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Certainly have used polors on some crewed offshore boats but never have use then on any of mine, didn't and don't have any. Don't personally own Expedition or any routing software, use weather charts or GRIBS to manually make routing choices with the aid of a laptop or iPad. I have and would pay a shore router for a synopsis before a Hawaii or Mexico race, that does run about $100.
 
I'm liking the Delorme as a baseline that everyone gets and love the price point but the ability to still download NOAA GRIBS, weather fax, should still be allowed for onboard use. Those have been allowed for a long time.
 
I have polars and a routing program.

The problem is, I can't really sail to either.

Comms plan will be released real soon now, should hopefully resolve these issues, and let people lock down the gear they plan to get and install.
 
A note on DeLorme wx: as I understand it, you have to pay an additional fee to get the weather reports. But the data is just NWS point forecasts. This ability will not be provided by the DeLorme trackers as provided by the RC. If you have a satphone, you do not need to pay for DeLorme/OCENS weather, as it is redundant. I don't think there is a way to get GRIBs or any graphic wx data using only the DeLorme.
 
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