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Farallones Race Questions
- Thread starter Philpott
- Start date
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Thanks Pat.
In the last race our resourceful skippers adapted to the pin end of the line being motorized. For this race the entire start/finish line was motorized.
Paul (Disario, PRO) and his team did a great job, as did the fleet. Everybody was finished by dark and results were up 14 minutes after the last boat crossed the line.
I'm sure there will be some stories to tell at the meeting.
In the last race our resourceful skippers adapted to the pin end of the line being motorized. For this race the entire start/finish line was motorized.
Paul (Disario, PRO) and his team did a great job, as did the fleet. Everybody was finished by dark and results were up 14 minutes after the last boat crossed the line.
I'm sure there will be some stories to tell at the meeting.
WBChristie
New member
Are the results posted somewhere? Thanks...
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Here you go. Matt was racing yesterday so like the other skippers, he's probably still hooked into the Ibuprofen drip:
https://www.jibeset.net/JACKY000.php?RG=T001872699
______________________
Regarding the start/finish line, here is my e-mail exchange with our Commodore a few minutes ago:
Jim:
"How did it go yesterday?
Currently sailing back from HMB and its a wee bit bumpy (but sunny).
Cheers,
Jim Q"
Bob:
"We got kicked out of two yacht clubs in one morning. You?"
Jim:
"Yikes"
Bob:
"Okay, that wasn't fair.
The insurance certificate didn't show up so we couldn't start at the St. Francis. Robbie Dean was as helpful as possible - helping me track down our agent in Illinois on a Saturday morning. It turned out he was racing and unavailable to help. We postponed, packed up and walked across to the GGYC, but they had taken us at our word and were painting the race deck. Okay, this is fun.
So we started/finished between GGYC 'X' and the stone lighthouse in the parking lot. It actually worked fine. All boats were finished by dark and results were up 14 minutes after the last boat finished."
https://www.jibeset.net/JACKY000.php?RG=T001872699
______________________
Regarding the start/finish line, here is my e-mail exchange with our Commodore a few minutes ago:
Jim:
"How did it go yesterday?
Currently sailing back from HMB and its a wee bit bumpy (but sunny).
Cheers,
Jim Q"
Bob:
"We got kicked out of two yacht clubs in one morning. You?"
Jim:
"Yikes"
Bob:
"Okay, that wasn't fair.
The insurance certificate didn't show up so we couldn't start at the St. Francis. Robbie Dean was as helpful as possible - helping me track down our agent in Illinois on a Saturday morning. It turned out he was racing and unavailable to help. We postponed, packed up and walked across to the GGYC, but they had taken us at our word and were painting the race deck. Okay, this is fun.
So we started/finished between GGYC 'X' and the stone lighthouse in the parking lot. It actually worked fine. All boats were finished by dark and results were up 14 minutes after the last boat finished."
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dhusselman
New member
Hi Bob & race committee
Thanks for getting the race underway, while not be able to use a yacht club...
It's helpful to understand the reason for postponement and after learning the reason, I'm surprised and happy we got to start at all.
It was a windy race, more than I expected. There was a nice lift about half way down the course and favored boats that did not tack north early on. I was about 1.2 miles south of the rumb line and got lifted all the way back up.
I think I was the only fool trying to put up a chute at any point on the broad reach back home. TWS went from 30 to 24 and I decided to set my A5.5 which was foolish and I got punished big time. 4 boats passed me by the time I got my chute down. Wind kept building seeing high 30's.
It was a beautiful day and another lesson learned...
Dirk- Xpression
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
The Olympic Circle Sailing Club is located in the Berkeley marina. It has a wonderful, free weather site online (http://www.ocscsailing.com/membership/myOCSC/login.php?return=/resources/weather/index.phpe) . When I was learning to sail my Cal 20 on the Olympic Circle it was very helpful to be able to look at the wind speeds AFTERWARDS in order to gauge what I had experienced earlier that day. "Oh, so that's what 19 knots feels like on an ebb tide with my 100% jib". In that way I learned how to gauge my own abilities and my boat's tendencies. Is there a similar site online somewhere of wind history for the winds and waves offshore? I know where to find forecasts and how to call dial a buoy, but my only gauge of yesterday’s true weather and speed is Dirk Husselman’s comment (above) “TWS went from 30 to 24 and I decided to set my A5.5 which was foolish and I got punished big time. 4 boats passed me by the time I got my chute down. Wind kept building seeing high 30's.” (!!!) and Stephan Buckingham’s comment to Jonathan Gutoff that sailing yesterday was a “hate mission”. I was out there for awhile yesterday, and turned around somewhere between Approach Buoy 1 and the Light Bucket. I was in no position, however, to call Dial a Buoy or to go below. Please, fellas, I would appreciate reading any and all reflections on yesterday’s race from people who kept going. I would also like to ask: “how did you DO that?”
Philpott,
The National Data Buoy Center pages show wind and wave data for the preceding 24 hours. (There are links at the bottom of the page to older data.) The data for station 46026 (http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=46026) is the closest to the Farallones course. When looking at the previous 5 day continuous winds data you need to convert wind speed from meters per second to make any sense of it (unless you are used to pondering wind speeds in meters per second). I have never spent much time poking around the other flavors of older data but there is a wealth of stuff there.
The National Data Buoy Center pages show wind and wave data for the preceding 24 hours. (There are links at the bottom of the page to older data.) The data for station 46026 (http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=46026) is the closest to the Farallones course. When looking at the previous 5 day continuous winds data you need to convert wind speed from meters per second to make any sense of it (unless you are used to pondering wind speeds in meters per second). I have never spent much time poking around the other flavors of older data but there is a wealth of stuff there.
dhusselman
New member
You bring up a great topic. What wind did you experience, based on your wind instruments, sail combinations, and boat behavior vs actual?
I personally go by my instruments as a guideline. I know what it means for me, although it might not show actual. Anything below 25 AWS is no reef and #2 jib. Over 25 AWS #3 jib. Over 30 AWS 1 reef. However sailing single handed I want to minimize sail changes so sometimes I carry a #2 with a reef and other times I sail with the #3 in 15 AWS. Yesterday I started with my #3 Jib. about 1/3 of the way out to the Farallones I decided to reef. The boat handled really well. Un-reefed at the Farallones. However I would have been better of at times with a reef. Again trying to set the chute was "insane". It was a great day sailing. However I would not enjoy it if this would be the conditions of a long pac.
What did other boats see as wind speed?
Jackie,
When sailing on open water, both wind speed (true/apparent) and swell/wave conditions are important and interplay with each other, so much so that simple buoy data is just a beginning, in my opinion. On a day when the ocean's "flat" with a 6 -8 foot swell at 10 or more seconds, you might be able to deal with wind in the high 20s without too much hassle. Depending on your boat and its characteristics, everyone will probably reef/unreef/switch up/down head sails at different times. When both wind and water are kicking up (read yesterday), everything changes rapidly for a more conservative sail plan. Either Start with a small head sail or plan to change down before you reach Bonita. Plan to put the 1st reef in early and be prepared for a 2nd. Just going forward in conditions like yesterday, when sailing a small boat, can be tricky.
For years sailing my Newport 30, just finishing the race was my goal; placing was almost always out of the question. It was only after I put a roller furler on that I began to move up from a consistent, and far behind, last place. I set up a 1st reef in the main that I could do from the cockpit - wasn't perfect, but it reduced the sail area and allowed me to get things under control.
Practice with the Autohelm. It needs to learn the characteristics of your boat and you need to learn how to adjust it. You'll never find anything like yesterday inside the Bay , however, so you need to stick your bow out beyond Bonita an a gnarly day as part of the learning process.
I once tacked my Newport out near the Island and it just kept going until the mast was in the water and I was standing on the lower coaming up to my hips in seawater. After I released the main sheet, the boat came back up, but it shook me up. The anemometer read 40 knots and the boat was not moving! I was also on the BAMA race that got Peter Hogg's tri. Just turning around to come home before the major blow hit me was dicey and we slid down a very high swell sideways. The swell was so high that the sails lost wind and we nearly did the same thing when the next swell arrived. We were double reefed with about 20% of the jib unfurled. By the time we were back at Bonita, we were both wet, beaten, he was deadly seasick and we were both scared.
I remember each of those instances each time I sail past Bonita and have decided things weren't right for me more times than I can say. The point is to have fun, not get scared silly.
I think what I'm trying to say is that experience is the best teacher when it comes to deciding when to sail and when enough's enough. Remember, you have to come back from that turn around point.
When sailing on open water, both wind speed (true/apparent) and swell/wave conditions are important and interplay with each other, so much so that simple buoy data is just a beginning, in my opinion. On a day when the ocean's "flat" with a 6 -8 foot swell at 10 or more seconds, you might be able to deal with wind in the high 20s without too much hassle. Depending on your boat and its characteristics, everyone will probably reef/unreef/switch up/down head sails at different times. When both wind and water are kicking up (read yesterday), everything changes rapidly for a more conservative sail plan. Either Start with a small head sail or plan to change down before you reach Bonita. Plan to put the 1st reef in early and be prepared for a 2nd. Just going forward in conditions like yesterday, when sailing a small boat, can be tricky.
For years sailing my Newport 30, just finishing the race was my goal; placing was almost always out of the question. It was only after I put a roller furler on that I began to move up from a consistent, and far behind, last place. I set up a 1st reef in the main that I could do from the cockpit - wasn't perfect, but it reduced the sail area and allowed me to get things under control.
Practice with the Autohelm. It needs to learn the characteristics of your boat and you need to learn how to adjust it. You'll never find anything like yesterday inside the Bay , however, so you need to stick your bow out beyond Bonita an a gnarly day as part of the learning process.
I once tacked my Newport out near the Island and it just kept going until the mast was in the water and I was standing on the lower coaming up to my hips in seawater. After I released the main sheet, the boat came back up, but it shook me up. The anemometer read 40 knots and the boat was not moving! I was also on the BAMA race that got Peter Hogg's tri. Just turning around to come home before the major blow hit me was dicey and we slid down a very high swell sideways. The swell was so high that the sails lost wind and we nearly did the same thing when the next swell arrived. We were double reefed with about 20% of the jib unfurled. By the time we were back at Bonita, we were both wet, beaten, he was deadly seasick and we were both scared.
I remember each of those instances each time I sail past Bonita and have decided things weren't right for me more times than I can say. The point is to have fun, not get scared silly.
I think what I'm trying to say is that experience is the best teacher when it comes to deciding when to sail and when enough's enough. Remember, you have to come back from that turn around point.
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Pat, I agree that the forecast is just the starting point. When I was coming back in yesterday there were big breaking waves and my wide hipped boat was surfing down them. One wave washed over me from behind, half filling the cockpit and over the hatch boards, which were in place (thank you, Bob), into the cabin via the hatch top, which was NOT pulled shut. There was enough water in the cabin to cause my electric bilge pump to turn on. I got a mouth full of sea water which was nasty and almost overcame the benefit of the scopalomine patch. Thank goodness I had duct taped a large zip lock bag around the glow plug/start key for my engine (thank you, Bill Merrick for that story, did you nod your head in approval when you watched it happen to me?). On that long slog back in I I catalogued all the additions that need to be added to Dura Mater: self tailing winches, a cam cleat for the furling line, a cockpit bag into which I'll put all the stuff that was laying around on the bench, all of which ended up down near the two very big and wonderful cockpit drains. They drained half a cockpit full of water in less than a minute. Thank you, tether. Thank you, Race Committee, thank you, SSS for being full of such impressive sailing warriors. Yesterday was a real learning experience.
In the interest of better understanding my and my boat's limits, I too could use some feedback on the wind conditions over the course on Saturday. I rounded around 3:00-3:30 PM, and finished at 6:50 PM. I don't have an anemometer on my boat, but for those of you who do, perhaps you could share what kind of wind speeds you saw, when, and where. Much appreciated.
Tom Boussie
Egret
Tom Boussie
Egret
Tom, First of all, congratulations for finishing 1st in your division. My Newport 30 was very similar to your Tartan 30 in many respects so I probably know what it must have been for you. I saw consistent 20 - 25+ mph wind on the way out. There was probably more like 30 at the island at 2:15. There was a lull somewhere east of the Island to around the Lightship ("SF" Buoy) when it dropped below 20. But the real deal was from about 4:00 - 5:00 from Entrance Buoy #1 to Pt. Bonita! It was very consistently in the 25+ range, with periods of 30+ some of the time. It was one windy day!
Pat
Pat
Lots of great information here. I had a very good day but turned around at the lightbucket. I was keeping even with Daniel on Galaxsea till that point but he was on the north side of the channel and I was on the south side but seemed to be getting lifted all the time. I attempted in 2010 and found the conditions then similar but with an even worse wave/swell pattern. Pat I sail a Newport 30 and I hope I never experience standing on the side of the coaming waist deep in water!!!
Jackie I saw you behind me on your way back in. For a long time you were close and then you dropped way back and I could see you were flogging your jib quite a bit. I was concerned but you seemed to be making forward progress so I just kept my eye on you all the way back in and stayed close inside the gate until you were inside. I heard you on the radio saying you were going to go into Presidio to fix the jib.
I found the ride back in very difficult. With swells coming from two directions and wind waves and little breakers everywhere and some that weren't so little, it required a lot of attention to keep the boat straight and safe. I definitely had a couple of good sideways slides and one breaker that slapped my boat pretty good but only a little water in the cockpit.
This time I used a iPad Mini as a GPS with Navionics (I also had my handheld Garmin). It was much easier to understand where I was and where I was headed with the bigger screen. The screen on the hand held is fine in the bay and delta but with all the motion in the ocean it was impossible to read in 2010 when I attempted this race.
Jackie I saw you behind me on your way back in. For a long time you were close and then you dropped way back and I could see you were flogging your jib quite a bit. I was concerned but you seemed to be making forward progress so I just kept my eye on you all the way back in and stayed close inside the gate until you were inside. I heard you on the radio saying you were going to go into Presidio to fix the jib.
I found the ride back in very difficult. With swells coming from two directions and wind waves and little breakers everywhere and some that weren't so little, it required a lot of attention to keep the boat straight and safe. I definitely had a couple of good sideways slides and one breaker that slapped my boat pretty good but only a little water in the cockpit.
This time I used a iPad Mini as a GPS with Navionics (I also had my handheld Garmin). It was much easier to understand where I was and where I was headed with the bigger screen. The screen on the hand held is fine in the bay and delta but with all the motion in the ocean it was impossible to read in 2010 when I attempted this race.
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
I kept trying to reach the lee of the headlands, but there was no lee anywhere over there! I saw Little Cat sail back from "out there" with its jib down. It looked like her skipper was trying to find a lee shore, too. The skipper (Roger?) seemed to stop ashore just east of the Lighthouse, something I couldn't think of doing with a keelboat, then I saw him continue on into the bay. I would have been very nervous on a catamaran in those conditions. It would be great to hear from a multihull skipper. When Dave Morris admitted to being surprised at the difficulty turning away from oncoming boats, it helped me understand Artemis' crash. I am really looking forward to hearing from skippers at the Awards Meeting on May 29. Details are always great.
Hi Jackie,
I turned back a mile or so past the end of the shipping channel. The boat was doing fine but I was getting knocked around a lot - Little Cat only weighs about 1000lb wet, so was bouncing around a lot. The one thing she doesn't like is short steep waves and was coming off the tops of the waves to windward with half of the hull length out in the breeze. So, the main conclusion is that I need quieter days to head offshore, or, to get more fit (maybe both!). I went down to the reefed mainsail for the trip back in and even then was hitting 11 knots at times - it was moderately hair raising and required constant attention looking back at the waves, many of which were breaking as you know. I had a good look at you as I came past and you seemed to be sitting back quite relaxed in the cockpit so figured that you had everything under control. Back under Pt Bonita, I wasn't quite ready to go home so stopped for lunch and to dry out. I had a great day -and thanks to the race committee for all of their work (apologies for the vhf check-in mix-up)
Roger
I turned back a mile or so past the end of the shipping channel. The boat was doing fine but I was getting knocked around a lot - Little Cat only weighs about 1000lb wet, so was bouncing around a lot. The one thing she doesn't like is short steep waves and was coming off the tops of the waves to windward with half of the hull length out in the breeze. So, the main conclusion is that I need quieter days to head offshore, or, to get more fit (maybe both!). I went down to the reefed mainsail for the trip back in and even then was hitting 11 knots at times - it was moderately hair raising and required constant attention looking back at the waves, many of which were breaking as you know. I had a good look at you as I came past and you seemed to be sitting back quite relaxed in the cockpit so figured that you had everything under control. Back under Pt Bonita, I wasn't quite ready to go home so stopped for lunch and to dry out. I had a great day -and thanks to the race committee for all of their work (apologies for the vhf check-in mix-up)
Roger
Critter
Desert Ratfox
Tom, you and I were close most of the way back in. I was seeing numbers very close to what Pat gave you already.
I'm impressed at the apparent stablility of your boat with a good-sized jib up. I put up my 125% high-clewed reacher while the wind was (briefly) in the teens after rounding the island, and had a miserable time holding the bow down when it picked up again. You walked right past me.
Max
Having sailed WILDFLOWER in the first Single-handed Farallones (1977), and a few since, the luck of the draw will find WNW, 25-30 knots TWS somewhere along the race track about 50% of Spring races out to the Rockpile.
The tide can be felt as far as the Lightbucket. With a big ebb against a hat full of wind, irregular breaking seas result. You don't even need an ebb. Swells that are generated hundreds, or thousands, of miles away begin to feel the continental shelf near the Farallones.
These days, most SSS sailors are fully aware of possible conditions in the Gulf of the Farallones, and are prepared mentally and physically. It wasn't always so. Whether to turn back or carry on is a personal choice, apparently soundly based in reality this year. Congrats, all.
I would like to share one safety tip for future Farallones, Long Pac, SHTP. Most of you already know this, so apologies for repetition. When you are tethered to the boat, either to a fixed eye, or a jack line, it doesn't do much good to have slack in the tether when a breaker comes aboard and the boat broaches.
Wet jack lines stretch like mad, Slack in the tether carries the risk of being launched across the cockpit and over the lifelines. It's happened more times than we like to remember.
When steering or sitting to windward, take the slack out of the tether by wrapping a couple of turns 'round the primary winch. Better yet, have a second, short tether secured to weather to help brace against the force of cascading water. My two cents.
The tide can be felt as far as the Lightbucket. With a big ebb against a hat full of wind, irregular breaking seas result. You don't even need an ebb. Swells that are generated hundreds, or thousands, of miles away begin to feel the continental shelf near the Farallones.
These days, most SSS sailors are fully aware of possible conditions in the Gulf of the Farallones, and are prepared mentally and physically. It wasn't always so. Whether to turn back or carry on is a personal choice, apparently soundly based in reality this year. Congrats, all.
I would like to share one safety tip for future Farallones, Long Pac, SHTP. Most of you already know this, so apologies for repetition. When you are tethered to the boat, either to a fixed eye, or a jack line, it doesn't do much good to have slack in the tether when a breaker comes aboard and the boat broaches.
Wet jack lines stretch like mad, Slack in the tether carries the risk of being launched across the cockpit and over the lifelines. It's happened more times than we like to remember.
When steering or sitting to windward, take the slack out of the tether by wrapping a couple of turns 'round the primary winch. Better yet, have a second, short tether secured to weather to help brace against the force of cascading water. My two cents.
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