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From Race Chair: Race Starting Philosophy

J

Joyride

New member
This post asks SSS members for their opinions on starting SSS races.

Specifically, many past ASIs have listed absolute starting times, as in "The Start for Flag C is 11:05."

This allows no mechanism for the race to be postponed if there is no wind, or if the RC must postpone for any other reason.

To get back to standard practice as defined in the Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS), for the Corinthian Race we have issued ASIs that state the first warning is scheduled for 1100, and we do not list start times for each fleet. While the Race Committee still intends to start Flag C at 11:05, this change means that we are no longer obligated to do so. For instance, we could postpone the start if there is no wind, or if there are a lot of boats OCS (over early) at one start we may not roll immediately into the next start in order to give the OCS boats time to start properly without interfering with the start of the next fleet.

Philosophy Question to members: Should the SSS start races on a fixed schedule no matter what? Or should the Race Committee be given discretion to run starts as they feel is best? As examples, some people may prefer to race in wind, hence they would appreciate a postponement in no-wind conditions. Others may feel part of the "charm" of the SSS is having to deal with conditions no matter what they are. How do you feel?

Note that the Race Committee intends to announce starting sequences on VHF since we understand it is hard for shorthanded crew to sail a boat and look for flags. Typical announcements will include which Flag is going into sequence next, or is currently in sequence, and will include countdowns to each fleet's first warning (5 minutes before start) and preparatory signal (4 minutes before start).
 
I am good with delays when conditions are likely going to improve "soonish," because these can be long, tiring races with in-the-dark commutes back to the barn. Will this also include extending the finish time accordingly? This is usually more of an issue for the early and late races (e.g., Corinthian and Vallejo), but that makes a long day for RC, too....
 
Dura Mater is a big, heavy boat. Well, heavy for me. We need all the help and time available to cross that finish line. So I agree with Carliane's point about extending the finish when postponing the start. As for postponing at all? I hope that is not something the SSS decides to do. Members of the SSS race with "the boat they got". I think the RC should continue to start races in "the wind we got". Multiplying by five several times? Too hard when doing everything else while waiting to start.

Jim, your post asks how we "FEEL". It's not a matter of how I feel. It's an intellectual imperative.
 
Every race I sail has a "start time" for divisions. The RC can postpone at any time for any reason, for any length of time, at any time prior to the Starting Gun for a division. When the postponement is lifted, the sequence for getting things underway is in the RRS. The "normal" starting procedure is to "roll" the starts, with the Starting gun for Division 1 being the Warning gun for Division 2 and so on. The CYC uses "Planned Start Time" in its list of starts, for instance. But a RC can announce that it will not be "rolling" starts - for instance if the wind is light and it's difficult for Division 1 boats to clear the line/starting area. There's a great deal of latitude. (However for a reverse start race like the 3-Bdrige, once things get going there's no way to stop it.) My suggestion is to put the "Scheduled Starting Times" in the SIs. See what conditions are on race day and make adjustments accordingly - using the RRS and signals. -- Pat Broderick
 
Yes, with the exception of the 3 bridge, I would like to see the RC use their discretion of postponement for lack of wind.

What I really desire is a Lemans start with anchors down and sails furled. That would be absolute mayhem and exciting!
 
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What they said. Just keep us informed via VHF 'cause we usually can't see the flags.

Maybe no cat-in-the-hat for Vallejo 2 on a building flood.

Jackie, I think we had the same English teacher. And hey, I suggested an Olson 25 but NOOO - you wanted luxury!
.
 
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The goal of publishing "starting times and signals" in the Additional Sailing Instructions is to inform skippers of the starting sequence and minimize confusion. To that end, I believe the 'new' approach used in the Corinthian Race did not work.

As per the Racing Rules of Sailing, "The warning signal for each succeeding class shall be made with or after the starting signal of the preceding class." This does not state when the actual warning will occur. If skippers can watch the race deck and see when their class flag is hoisted - then they know they are the next class to start. For full-crew racing this works, there is a person with binoculars dedicated to watching the race deck and calling out what they are seeing. In my experience this does not work for singlehanders, we don't have an extra person to keep an eye on race deck - instead we're observing our watches and and have pre-calculated the start time.

One item missing from the Corinthian Additional Sailing Instructions is when will the warning signal for all classes after Flag C occur? The wording states the warning will be "at or after" the prior class' start. This means everything after Class C is unknown, and that's not helpful. At the very least, include wording to the effect that the start for the prior class constitutes (or coincides with) the warning for the next class. If you really want to screw people up, insert a one minute break between the start for the prior class and the warning for the next class, but don't tell anyone you're going to do that! (that was done in an OYRA race, most boats couldn't figure out what was going on and started late, early, or not at all).

The reality is that each skipper gets to take the published warning (11:00 for Class C), assume that the start for C is also the warning for the D, and then work out the start time for each class. Hopefully everyone comes up with the same answers.

It would be better to specify two things in the Additional Sailing Instructions:
1. the starting signal for a class shall be the warning signal for the next class.
2. the time of the warning signal (or anticipated time, if you don't want to commit to a time)

I've not been aware that Race Committee had their hands tied as regards postponements; a start may be postponed at any time prior to the actual start.

I don't follow your logic here:

"This allows no mechanism for the race to be postponed if there is no wind, or if the RC must postpone for any other reason."

The RRS specifically allow for a postponement at any time prior to the starting signal. You've already posted a specific warning time in the Additional Sailing Instructions for Class C; what would prevent Race Committee from postponing the start for Class C?

- rob/beetle
 
Was there confusion during the starts yesterday? Other than a couple of late check-ins, I didn't hear anything.

I did as I always do: I wrote the planned start time for each class on my SI's and listened for any changes via VHF.
 
BobJ said:
I did as I always do: I wrote the planned start time for each class on my SI's and listened for any changes via VHF.
Click to expand...

Hi Bob -

How could you know what the planned start time was for each class, given the information available in the Additional Sailing Instructions?

The answer is that you can't work it out, unless you make an assumption (e.g., that the start for the prior class coincides with the warning for the next class).

It strikes me that Jim is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist; the problem appears to be concern that RC can't postpone starts once a warning time is published. Publishing a warning signal time does not lock RC into the position being unable to postpone a start (at least according to the Racing Rules of Sailing).

- rob/beetle
 
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Hi Rob,

Before I took over as Race Chair (2014?) I attended the US Sailing class for Race Officers. I think you might have been there too. They made a huge deal about this stuff, and how R/C's should feel free to postpone at any point in the sequence, at the drop of a hat (or at the hoisting of a hat I suppose).

After that, I thought we had the same problem and changed the SI's to say "Scheduled Start (Unless Postponed)" or some such wording. We did have a couple postponements that year and nobody died. The next guy put the wording back to what we'd had before.

As long as we keep the same policy we've always had in the SSS - we shoot anyone who files for Redress - I think we'll be fine.
 
Another perspective: Please keep in mind that the Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS) are written to address a very wide range of race types, boats, conditions, etc.. It goes without say, SSS races are different and have their own somewhat unique set of challenges.

It seems like the ASI changes were done to address potential issues that have not been a problem, and for many add some level of confusion. When I was on the RC, I heard that per a former Race Chair, “The SSS doesn’t do postponements.” I know that is not entirely true, but they have been and should be rare. Another reason for change was stated to address a General Recall. I’m curious, has there ever been a General Recall in the history of SSS racing? I can only imaging the chaos.

Tom P.
 
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tiger beetle said:
... The wording states the warning will be "at or after" the prior class' start. This means everything after Class C is unknown, and that's not helpful. At the very least, include wording to the effect that the start for the prior class constitutes (or coincides with) the warning for the next class. .... each skipper gets to take the published warning (11:00 for Class C), assume that the start for C is also the warning for the D, and then work out the start time for each class. Hopefully everyone comes up with the same answers.
Click to expand...

I assumed the "after" part of "at or after" meant a class's warning may be postponed, for whatever reason, to some later time after the prior class's start. I also made assumptions that (1) the RC would clarify such a situation and the proposed later warning time over the radio, and (2) "at" is the default, i.e. warnings coincide with prior classes' starts.

I've been around just long enough to feel confident I had it all figured out, but yes, I think a line making these assumptions explicit in the instructions would have been helpful had this been my first race.
Agree with BobJ, though, it all seemed to go well yesterday as far as I could tell. Seems everyone did the math ok. I think RC did a great, straightforward job of announcing each signal and hope that communications practice continues. I don't mind so much if things get complicated, as long as the communications are clear and everything is done in the spirit of keeping us sailing and having fun, not "gotcha! you didn't know rule xyz sub-part 2 and missed your start!".
I saw a few mayhem scenarios when I was "binoculars guy" in fully crewed races where the RC made unhelpful radio announcements and deferred all questions to the flags. Not fun. Yesterday was fun.

p.s. aside but related to rules: befitting the Corinthian race, of all races, props go to Sweet Pea for taking it upon himself to do a 720 after barely fouling me. It took me a few minutes to even realize that's what he was doing; I wouldn't have thought twice about it if he just kept racing.
 
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Dazzler said:
I’m curious, has there ever been a General Recall in the history of SSS racing? I can only imaging the chaos.
Click to expand...

I heard four over-earlies in Sportboat yesterday and Jim was apparently struggling to see sail numbers, so that was probably close to becoming a General Recall. I heard some self-policing going on and chaos was averted.

I agree with Lanikai - props to the race deck for a smooth job with lots of boats, and to Sweet Pea for doing the right thing.
 
I think I did a general recall at the start of last years Vallejo 1. Some multi’s had started and then the wind died. Called everyone back, waited and started the sequence over. The reason I was reluctant on postponements is it just comes back to bite you at the finish. Extending the finish time to offset the late start doesn’t work well as it gets you in the dark and a longer day for racers and RC. I considered early starts but worried that would lower racer participation needing to get up and out on the water extra early. No right answer that’s sailboat racing...
 
There should never be a general recall for over early boats. It is totally unfair to boats that got a fair start. General's are a means of the RC making up for not spotting the line.

BB


BobJ said:
I heard four over-earlies in Sportboat yesterday and Jim was apparently struggling to see sail numbers, so that was probably close to becoming a General Recall. I heard some self-policing going on and chaos was averted.

I agree with Lanikai - props to the race deck for a smooth job with lots of boats, and to Sweet Pea for doing the right thing.
Click to expand...
 
In 1975 (I think), I was on the committee boat for the Soling Olympic Trials on the Circle. There were dozens of identical white bows all hitting the line at the same time - that's when you had to call General Recalls, and we had many.

(Man I'm old...)
 
Jim here, your Race Chair. Since I was the one making all these decisions, let me answer as best I can.

First, I don't agree with Rob. If the NOR specifically says that changes to the sailing instructions are allowed only up to 9PM the previous Thursday, and thereafter any change to the SI must be done verbally prior to the first warning, then I don't see how my hands aren't tied. Consider if, as they did last year, the SIs state that Flag C starts at 11:05, Flag D starts at 11:10, etc. A boat in Flag C snags the pin, and sails off with it. If I postpone the start of Flag D, then aren't I changing the SIs, which says Flag D starts at 11:10? Now suppose we get everything fixed, and at 11:09 I drop the AP and go back into sequence for Flag D at 11:10. Some Flag D boats start at 11:10, others follow the postponement and start at 11:15. The 11:15 boats are then upset that some of their competitors started at 11:10, and a protest of the RC ensues. I suspect the boats starting at 11:10 would win the protest and the 11:15 starters would be SOL, because the protest committee would say the 11:10 boats followed the rules as printed, and the RC was delinquent in not following the RRS by writing such terrible rules!

Now I agree I could list scheduled start times for each class, and in the above scenario the 11:15 starters would win the protest and the 11:10 boats would be OCS. I might argue that giving scheduled start times leads to expectations that may not be kept, but as long as racers know that, that's fine.

I fully recognize that the SSS has unique issues, and that you are busy at starts. I hope my full communication over VHF of what was going on was helpful. If I'd postponed a start, I'd have been all over the radio. If I'd not rolled directly from one start into the next, I'd have been all over the radio. I was all over the radio and we followed the stated plan! I'm fully aware this violates the RRS, which states boats are racing at your preparatory signal (Start minus four minutes) and anything I give you after that point is outside help, but I do this fully recognizing the SSS is unique, and besides, I'm helping everyone.

OK, now on to the four OCS sportboats. First off, upon review one of the four was a late starter from a prior division. That leaves three. One I called out, and shortly thereafter our view became obstructed by all the other boats starting between us and them. I thought about calling for a General Recall of that fleet, but I chose not to because it was clear to me that all three boats were not making up-course progress and appeared to be trying to return to start properly when we lost them, and when the dust settled, they were clearly behind the fleet. I agree, as one person wrote, a General Recall is equivalent to an RC failure. That's true, but also consider the SSS doesn't have resources to have a spotter boat at the pin end, nor do we have overhead helicopters with a nice "Stan Honey" yellow line painted on the water. I opted instead to contact the boats after the race for some self policing, as I feel SSS sailors are a pretty honorable bunch. I'm happy with this decision, as the General Recall would likely have led to more mayhem.

I'm always open for suggestions, and I'm just trying to frustrate the fewest people possible!
 
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