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Half Moon Bay Race
- Thread starter Critter
- Start date
With my RC hat on, I really enjoyed the format of the HMB race. I didn't need to recruit a large team. I got to sit comfortably with a drink at the club waiting for the racers. I got to meet a lot of skippers that I hadn't met before. I prefer this to bobbing on a boat for 5 hours 
Yes there were a few errors but most were corrected that same night, mostly people with mistakes converting to 24h time. But you can be prepared to just enter the finish times and let the spreadsheet do the work.
The option of shortening course at CR I think has some merits. My only concerns is the confusion that it might introduce into the race instructions.
From a racing perspective, yes, I do prefer someone else taking my time, but this really is not that onerous.
Oh, and I would love two hats
Yes there were a few errors but most were corrected that same night, mostly people with mistakes converting to 24h time. But you can be prepared to just enter the finish times and let the spreadsheet do the work.
The option of shortening course at CR I think has some merits. My only concerns is the confusion that it might introduce into the race instructions.
From a racing perspective, yes, I do prefer someone else taking my time, but this really is not that onerous.
Oh, and I would love two hats
Culebra
New member
What fun!
I can't remember a more fun race down to HMB. Let's see...
Yep, there was anticipation, thrill, danger, adventure, and sport. I loved every second. And as if that weren't enough, we converged at an awesome destination, ate a tasty dinner, snagged a cool hat, and found great company... Yep, races don't get much better than that!
Paul/Culebra
I can't remember a more fun race down to HMB. Let's see...
I almost missed the start for lack of fuel as I left the marina in the a.m. (thankfully I had a jug of diesel handy). The sails were only just barely set, but I crossed the start, sort of on time.... whew.
Green water came rushing over the bow, over me, and into the cockpit as I rounded Seal Rocks. That was also about the time the boat launched off a square wave and sent me bodily onto the sole of the cockpit.
Boats actually began to recede behind me as the breeze lifted us along the shore past Pacifica, and nearly onto San Pedro Rocks. Gotta love that.
A certain Reef Buoy off Pt. Montara seemed to repel the boat like two north poles of a magnet pressed together. What a set--I guess the current flopped about there.
We did get the spin up, for all of a few minutes at the finish... that was cool, flanked by Vitesse Too and Racer X like hounds on my tail. And the view behind and all around... what a pretty sight to see so many kites flying, floating really, in the light airs.
Green water came rushing over the bow, over me, and into the cockpit as I rounded Seal Rocks. That was also about the time the boat launched off a square wave and sent me bodily onto the sole of the cockpit.
Boats actually began to recede behind me as the breeze lifted us along the shore past Pacifica, and nearly onto San Pedro Rocks. Gotta love that.
A certain Reef Buoy off Pt. Montara seemed to repel the boat like two north poles of a magnet pressed together. What a set--I guess the current flopped about there.
We did get the spin up, for all of a few minutes at the finish... that was cool, flanked by Vitesse Too and Racer X like hounds on my tail. And the view behind and all around... what a pretty sight to see so many kites flying, floating really, in the light airs.
Yep, there was anticipation, thrill, danger, adventure, and sport. I loved every second. And as if that weren't enough, we converged at an awesome destination, ate a tasty dinner, snagged a cool hat, and found great company... Yep, races don't get much better than that!
Paul/Culebra
bobwalden
New member
Regarding the finish time, I suspect the HMB club folks would really like to get everyone in before dark. And that's a good goal, given that the pillar point area can be nasty in poor visibility and bad weather. So I don't necessarily think extending the limit is a good idea, or at least not much. Maybe 1900?. OYRA has a later limit, but also full crews.
I like Max's idea to take times at CR buoy. would it be when it bears 90m? Just adds one more line to the finish sheet, and could really help in cases where a fleet had no finishers.
Really, we just need to get the weather to cooperate. With what USED to be "typical" conditions for this time of year, this should be a fast race. I recall doing a turn and burn once with Petard and getting back to Sam's in Sausalito by sunset. Did we forget to pay our tribute to the wind gods lately?
bw
I like Max's idea to take times at CR buoy. would it be when it bears 90m? Just adds one more line to the finish sheet, and could really help in cases where a fleet had no finishers.
Really, we just need to get the weather to cooperate. With what USED to be "typical" conditions for this time of year, this should be a fast race. I recall doing a turn and burn once with Petard and getting back to Sam's in Sausalito by sunset. Did we forget to pay our tribute to the wind gods lately?
bw
HMB Race Change
SSS Folks,
The HMB Race was added so there would be a second ocean race, one in which doublehanders could participate. Back then the SSS handed out "practical" prizes (seat cushions, flashlights, air horns, candle holders, and such) and all the left-overs were the "prizes" for the HMB Race. You won, you picked out something from the grab bag. T on D results were easy to calculate, so results came out pretty fast, even if they were done in base 6 by hand!
Everyone got a "prize" of some sort. I don't think Season Championships were as important then, either. (Don't get me started on that one!)
I'm not in favor of "two finish lines" for the race. If it's shortened, then make Pillar Point #1 sighting to some mark (there are lots of things to look at) at the end of Pillar Point OR a 0º sighting on #1 the Finish Line for everyone. The final mile plus into PP #3 isn't important to the overall scheme of things. I think it was selected because it was the OYRA Finish Mark.
Pat B. "NANCY"
SSS Folks,
The HMB Race was added so there would be a second ocean race, one in which doublehanders could participate. Back then the SSS handed out "practical" prizes (seat cushions, flashlights, air horns, candle holders, and such) and all the left-overs were the "prizes" for the HMB Race. You won, you picked out something from the grab bag. T on D results were easy to calculate, so results came out pretty fast, even if they were done in base 6 by hand!
Everyone got a "prize" of some sort. I don't think Season Championships were as important then, either. (Don't get me started on that one!)
I'm not in favor of "two finish lines" for the race. If it's shortened, then make Pillar Point #1 sighting to some mark (there are lots of things to look at) at the end of Pillar Point OR a 0º sighting on #1 the Finish Line for everyone. The final mile plus into PP #3 isn't important to the overall scheme of things. I think it was selected because it was the OYRA Finish Mark.
Pat B. "NANCY"
Culebra
New member
Montara hole
Part of what makes this race so great is the tactical challenge. Terrain effects, variable currents, sea state and wind conditions make it a very demanding course. Will winds or currents be favored near shore or off shore is just one of the tactical choices. It's never a drag race. You have to sail smart. And in this race if you get the tactics wrong (which I've done often enough), you don't just lose a few minutes, you're totally dead and may not finish. You probably end up in the Montara hole.
So you don't finish? Well, to that I say, so what? It's part of the deal. It gives the race character. It's what makes it so great. For me it's what makes it fun. But if I had a PHRF of 240 I might feel differently. Statistically speaking, they could be in the Montara hole even if they make great tactical choices. And on the other hand, we all know there are awesome boats and crews who with their high PHRFs will kick our butts just as often as not, Montara hole or not. So what do you do?
If we add a short course option it has to be done without diminishing the character and appeal of the race. My thought is if you have 2 finishes, then you have to require the racers to choose which course they're going to sail before the start. Long course/short course, pick your poison (not dependent on PHRF). And you score them separately at the party. And you revel in both winners' achievements. But you don't get to opt into the short course because along the way you're falling behind the others.
So I think maybe you could retain the character of the event while also making it more fun for more of the racers. Add a short course option, but require the crew to choose long or short in advance.
Or don't change it at all. Because again, to me anyway, it's the tactical challenge that makes it great.
Paul/Culebra
Part of what makes this race so great is the tactical challenge. Terrain effects, variable currents, sea state and wind conditions make it a very demanding course. Will winds or currents be favored near shore or off shore is just one of the tactical choices. It's never a drag race. You have to sail smart. And in this race if you get the tactics wrong (which I've done often enough), you don't just lose a few minutes, you're totally dead and may not finish. You probably end up in the Montara hole.
So you don't finish? Well, to that I say, so what? It's part of the deal. It gives the race character. It's what makes it so great. For me it's what makes it fun. But if I had a PHRF of 240 I might feel differently. Statistically speaking, they could be in the Montara hole even if they make great tactical choices. And on the other hand, we all know there are awesome boats and crews who with their high PHRFs will kick our butts just as often as not, Montara hole or not. So what do you do?
If we add a short course option it has to be done without diminishing the character and appeal of the race. My thought is if you have 2 finishes, then you have to require the racers to choose which course they're going to sail before the start. Long course/short course, pick your poison (not dependent on PHRF). And you score them separately at the party. And you revel in both winners' achievements. But you don't get to opt into the short course because along the way you're falling behind the others.
So I think maybe you could retain the character of the event while also making it more fun for more of the racers. Add a short course option, but require the crew to choose long or short in advance.
Or don't change it at all. Because again, to me anyway, it's the tactical challenge that makes it great.
Paul/Culebra
I agree with Paul. I love the HMB race as it is now. I love it because 1) the party at the HMB Yacht Club is a blast! 2) It's ocean sailing 3) the course is not easy, there are many different ways to get to the same spot. On Alchera this year we stayed inshore and we saw 18-20 kts of breeze all the way to the Colorado buoy. In fact, both us and Jamanji (the overall winner) had to put a reef in at some point during the race. It was awesome sailing and Mark made the right call to stay in. I personally have entered the HMB race four times and only finished two on time. That didn't stop me from having a great time at the party and nobody really cared after the third drink .
Maybe one tweak we can do is to add the FAD (finished after deadline) component to the race. Right now I believe the SHTP is the only race we give that designation. It gives the skipper a little bit of pride that he/she finished the race, but not in the allotted time (trust me, I have some experience with this). It also gives some difference between the boat that turns around at the gate and the boat that sails all the way down to HMB.
Other than that, keep it a fun, yet challenging race. As Kame Richards always says in his tides and currents talk, "hard is good!"
AJ
.Maybe one tweak we can do is to add the FAD (finished after deadline) component to the race. Right now I believe the SHTP is the only race we give that designation. It gives the skipper a little bit of pride that he/she finished the race, but not in the allotted time (trust me, I have some experience with this). It also gives some difference between the boat that turns around at the gate and the boat that sails all the way down to HMB.
Other than that, keep it a fun, yet challenging race. As Kame Richards always says in his tides and currents talk, "hard is good!"
AJ
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bobwalden
New member
I don't think Max's idea for taking time at CR was meant to suggest a second course or anything like that. It's just a provision for shortening the race, if needed. I suspect it would only be used if there were zero finishers at the normal finish line before the time limit. Lots of buoy races have similar provisions.
Critter
Desert Ratfox
Short course option
To clarify my proposal, the short course wouldn't be something that the racer chooses ahead of time. And I don't want to score two different races! We already score single and doublehanded separately.
The expectation would be that everyone takes a time at Colorado Reef, then keeps racing. We can score long-course finishers and short-course finishers together, simply by ranking all those who finished the whole course above those who didn't.
Or, as Pat suggested, we can just finish the race at buoy 1. Much simpler, but I'm trying to think outside the box.
Max
To clarify my proposal, the short course wouldn't be something that the racer chooses ahead of time. And I don't want to score two different races! We already score single and doublehanded separately.
The expectation would be that everyone takes a time at Colorado Reef, then keeps racing. We can score long-course finishers and short-course finishers together, simply by ranking all those who finished the whole course above those who didn't.
Or, as Pat suggested, we can just finish the race at buoy 1. Much simpler, but I'm trying to think outside the box.
Max
pogen
Sailing canoe "Kūʻaupaʻa"
I have to say I don't care for this -- what if someone is doing great at CR and then flubs the 2nd half of the course? Or is doing mediocre at CR (perhaps because he stood way out) but pulls it off at the finish? I don't think people should get to cherry pick their course. It's the HMB race, not the CR race after all.
Simpler is best -- keep things as the are, and simply extend the time limit if needed. I like the G3 finish also, you feel close enough to Pillar Point harbor that you feel like you have arrived somewhere. Perhaps as Pat suggests use a visual range as the finish rather than a bearing to the mark, but it should be from G3 or G1 to the Harbor entrance light "Fl 5 sec 50 ft HORN", to account for dark or fog.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
I think AJ's idea is great. FAD = "Finished After Deadline." Late finishers could still turn in their times and see them published, it's easy for the R/C and fair to the timely finishers - what's not to like?
The high-rated boats and/or those who choose to race non-spinnaker know they may not finish in time. That's always been a part of the race.
(By the way, what was the conclusion the last time we had this discussion?)
The high-rated boats and/or those who choose to race non-spinnaker know they may not finish in time. That's always been a part of the race.
(By the way, what was the conclusion the last time we had this discussion?)
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Critter
Desert Ratfox
Pogen - But you don't get to cherry pick. If you can get to #3 before 6 pm, you're ranked above anyone who got to CR but not to 3.
You remind me of one problem with my proposal: if you don't pass close to CR, it's hard to get an accurate time there.
On the return cruise Sunday, my crew Dave and I came up with another possible twist: race both directions, but only your best time counts. Too far outside the box?
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Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
I agree with everything AJ said and would appreciate the FAD option. Dura Mater and I don't mind sailing through the dark in order to finish a race (ask Maryam @ Berkeley Yacht Club. Bless her heart, she's out there on the deck during the fall Friday night races waiting with her whistle). I don't want special treatment just cause my boat's little, but that DNF category is hard to swallow after sailing all the way down there. Thanks for the cogitations. Regardless of what is decided, I'll keep after it.
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BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Not posting a picture of myself, nope. Besides, I wasn't part of this extinguished group - I was just taking the pictures. Very few good ones in my secret stash but these were some better ones.
The shorthanded group in Seattle often races in light wind and they take their times at strategic marks in case they have to shorten a course. Besides the FAD option, maybe we add a line to the finish time sheet and have everyone take their time at CR too. Then we have that option or can experiment with Max's idea for a year or two.
The shorthanded group in Seattle often races in light wind and they take their times at strategic marks in case they have to shorten a course. Besides the FAD option, maybe we add a line to the finish time sheet and have everyone take their time at CR too. Then we have that option or can experiment with Max's idea for a year or two.