Interested in a boat for 2018 TransPac

[Steevee]

...an hairline crack between the hull and keel (and another one in front).

+1 what Wylie said. Definitely check the keel bolts. Any crack below the water line would make me nervous.
Chances are that she would probably make to Hawaii, but why take chances.

Edit: It's not uncommon to see these kind of cracks and it is most likely just cosmetic. Just do a further investigation.

 

[BobJ]

With the caveat that none of us are surveyors, I'll agree with Steevee. Seeing a hairline crack at the keel-to-sump (or hull) joint is not that unusual, especially as the bottom paint gets thin. Just walk around a yard and look at some boats. The time to get concerned is if there's movement. With the boat blocked up, if you can grab the keel and move it side-to-side, it's a problem. This is not my opinion - it's what yard managers have told me.

I have Rags' keel bolts torqued to factory spec's every 2-3 years. The last time it was a harder to get them tight. Next haul-out we'll remove each nut and inspect everything, and replace the washers with a larger diameter.

 

[jamottep]

Edit: It's not uncommon to see these kind of cracks and it is most likely just cosmetic. Just do a further investigation.

According to the previous owner that's what is is. I'll check the bolts again but when we looked at them everything was looking good. Certainly no rust. No survey either. There was no evidence of damage to the keel. I google'd Olson 30 keel bolt torque and couldn't find a final answer on that topic.

http://www.olson30.org/forum/topic/keel-bold-nut/

I'll wiggle the keel next time I hoist the boat.

 

[Wylieguy]

The reason to use a marine surveyor is that person is trained (okay, I know just about anyone can hang out a "Survey" sign - but I can suggest a good one) to not only take a look, but test. For instance, a deck or hull can "look good" but a surveyor with a hammer might find soft spots, even where the surface seems solid. I suggest that just "looking" at the keel bolts isn't enough. If nothing else, put a wrench on the bolts and see if you can move them. If so, get a pro to address the issue.

 

[Critter]

I google'd Olson 30 keel bolt torque and couldn't find a final answer.

I could be wrong about this, but I believe the proper torque is determined by the bolt diameter. It should be possible to look it up in a general hardware reference. That's what I did a few years back. Maybe I went a touch low on the torque because after all I was squeezing down on fiberglass, not steel.
Max

 

[jamottep]

There isn't so much happening these days. I have been buying things here and there.

I went to the boat today. A few things I did:

1. Emptied the bilge again and the dehumidifier bucket;
2. Scraped the keel botl/nuts as much as I could with the brush I had so I could take good pictures. More on that ...
3. Installed the second battery. It seemed to work.
4. Followed cables, got lost and moved onto something else.
5. Installed fed. reqs. placards.
6. Replaced a strap of velcro hook, which helps hold the nav. table dodger in place.
7. Met a few pleasant folks.
8. Took pictures for the insurance self-survey.
9. Gave all turnbuckles a twist and they moved softly.
10. Put the new flares in the "distress signal" box.

I think that's it ... not much when I look at the list for 5 hrs spent there. Next time I go there I think I'll want to start playing with my laptop, the instruments and the auto-tiller.

 

[jamottep]

About the keel ... here's what I've observed:

1. The forward bottom tip of the keel was repaired.
2. There is a small crack at the front and a dip at the back, in addition to the hairline crack on the starboard side.
3. The bolt/nuts seem to have been epoxied in place (my guess on the epoxy). See attached picture. So I can't give them a turn and check torque, not without making them free.
4. Folks at the yard (sailors) had a look at the keel and said all is good ... just need gel coat work if I insist. Someone went inside and checked the nuts and thought it looked good (Really? Are nuts epoxied in like that all the time).
5. One guy also said the keel on the Olson 30 is on a stubby, and there is no crack at the stubby mark.
6. Ah the joy of boat ownership: what will fail next?

 

[BobJ]

The one odd nut is, well, odd. But there was probably a reason for it. Anyway, if the keel was gonna fall off it would have done it in the last Pacific Cup.

The Olson 30 is a sweet-sailing boat. Look for every opportunity to just get out and sail it, before this other stuff psyches you out.

 

[jamottep]

Look for every opportunity to just get out and sail it, before this other stuff psyches you out.

Yep, as soon as the channel clears ...

I visited the boat again today and mostly spent my time connecting a laptop to the instruments and tried to make "that" work. Well ... not much success. Here's what I did:

1. Turned instruments on, which includes an NMEA bus and Actisense USB connector;
2. Plugged the USB connector into the laptop;
3. Popped the Actisense NMEA reader and after a while figured a way to get it to read (just had to select proper baud rate).

The reader showed some data (NMEA 0183, which is weird because I think the instruments are recent), probably coming from the wind vane and hull transducer (speed, depth, temp). There are two compasses too but I don't know if they make it to the NMEA bus. There's also the AIS from the VHF, which I didn't try.

The big question is how does this all integrate nicely into one piece of SW. Is there a piece of SW that does it all out there? OpenSource? I tried OpenCpn but I couldn't figure that part out. The SW should probably also take in weather forecast.

Disclaimer: I certainly wasn't methodical ... I just tried to "plug and play" and I didn't get very far ...

Good find: with the rain I discovered a leak at the stern hatch hinges (small bolt/nut). And now I get to learn about using sealants. My research suggests that I should go the way of butyl tape. And these guys sell some that's supposedly been tested (and of course all the rest is not good enough). Wow ... $50 for two rolls ...
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/butyl_tape

Oh, and I signed up for the dry storage wait list in Santa Cruz, which happens to be about 5 years long (I'm #29 or so). It costs $100 and being that I'm down to 11.x months I can't see me stay there.

 

[Daydreamer]

The butyl tape from mainesail works well and the two rolls goes a long way. 're-tighten everything later as the tape compresses.
3M 4200 is good for bedding hardware too. My biggest complaint is the stuff sets up under the cap and I wind up poking holes in the tube to get more out later.

 

[AZ Sailor]

The big question is how does this all integrate nicely into one piece of SW. Is there a piece of SW that does it all out there?

I doubt it. Too many different instruments, boats, laptops, and user preferences. To say nothing of the welter of proprietary network protocols pushed by the instrument manufacturers. Just spent the weekend getting a new laptop dialed into the various boat functions the old laptop had done. A lot of trial and error. It's a Windows 10 machine and Device Manager is where I spent a whole lot of time trying to get the machine to recognize and accept input from GPS, AIS, and also talk to and listen to the Pactor modem -- all through different serial-to-USB processes. The Pactor modem, for example, has one USB plug into the computer, and creates two serial ports in Device Manager, only one of which seems to matter to Airmail (the software program that gets you email, GRIB files, and weather fax maps via SailMail/SailDocs over an SSB or sat phone).

It's all doable, because you are just looking to solve one boat. It's maddening while you are doing it. Any number of times it would seem that things were all working, and on the next try it all went to hell. The goal is to find a protocol for the instruments and computer you are using that is consistently repeatable -- and then document it for yourself so that when you are back trying to get a weather fax for the first time in a month or two you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

And ditto on BobJ's remark: sail the boat. This kind of stuff should never be the focus of attention when the weather is good.

 

[pogen]

On the software front, you should definitely get the free program NavMonPC, it is a fantastic debug tool and also very good for enroute.

http://www.navmonpc.com/

If you have a hardware NMEA/AIS multiplexer and this program and OpenCPN, you can go anywhere. OpenCPN can even integrate radar signals. OpenCPN also displays GRIBS. And OpenCPN also has a routing module that uses your polars (although I never got it to work, mostly due to lack of time. )

I did Transpac and Longpac with just these free programs, along with the satphone email program.

 

[todd22123]

About the keel ... here's what I've observed:

1. The forward bottom tip of the keel was repaired.
2. There is a small crack at the front and a dip at the back, in addition to the hairline crack on the starboard side.
3. The bolt/nuts seem to have been epoxied in place (my guess on the epoxy). See attached picture. So I can't give them a turn and check torque, not without making them free.
4. Folks at the yard (sailors) had a look at the keel and said all is good ... just need gel coat work if I insist. Someone went inside and checked the nuts and thought it looked good (Really? Are nuts epoxied in like that all the time).
5. One guy also said the keel on the Olson 30 is on a stubby, and there is no crack at the stubby mark.
6. Ah the joy of boat ownership: what will fail next?

RE: #5, there are two different places to look for cracks. At the boat to stubby and at the stubby to keel. Small cracks on the outside are not necessarily a problem. The amount of flexing of keel when shook suspended in a hoist is impressive. Quite a bit of flexing can be normal. I put a few marks on your photo where to look for cracks developing and expanding. I had a keel problem, so I have seen these. My boat actually developed a leak, since repaired. The cracks that you would see from the inside are easily visible. You have a few small cracks, marked on the photo. If it doesn't leak after a hard sail in some steep chop, it will probably be fine. I guess the previous owner may have epoxied the keel bolts to prevent water going down and around the bolts. This is not standard, but I can imagine why someone would think to do that.

 

[BobJ]

On the software front, you should definitely get the free program NavMonPC, it is a fantastic debug tool and also very good for enroute.

http://www.navmonpc.com/

If you have a hardware NMEA/AIS multiplexer and this program and OpenCPN, you can go anywhere. OpenCPN can even integrate radar signals. OpenCPN also displays GRIBS. And OpenCPN also has a routing module that uses your polars (although I never got it to work, mostly due to lack of time. )

I did Transpac and Longpac with just these free programs, along with the satphone email program.

You reminded me that I have this Brookhouse mux. The digital display was an option and can be plugged into the mux to help diagnose issues. I ended up not using it and now Rags is almost entirely NMEA 2000. Will sell for a modest contribution to the boat kitty.

 

[AlanH]

How old is that Olson 30? 30 years? 35? If something was built badly and was going to break, don't you think it would have done so, already? That doesn't mean that you shouldn't look over things carefully, but if a couple of boat repair pros say "it's fine" then....

Regarding the electronics...you should do what makes you happy. If muddling with computers and signals and whatnot makes you happy, then you should do what makes you happy. But if it were me and I couldn't sail the boat, yet, I would go over all the rigging. Instead of paying money for more electronic widgets right now, I might replace some running rigging. I would take the sails off and lay them out on the grass (when it's not an absolute deluge from the sky) and inspect them. I would take the sails that needed some work to a sailmaker. I would fire up the outboard and putt-putt around the harbor a little bit to make sure that it works and pee's out cooling water. If it was a 4-cycle and I didn't know when it had last been serviced, I might take it home and do that...or give it to someone who can service it. I"d make sure the VHF radio works. If there's an autopilot, I'd make sure that works, and will steer the boat in a straight line while putt-putting around the lower harbor.

But that's just me. You should do what makes you happy.

 

[jamottep]

So ... no repair pro has checked the keel ... only old salts ... It is obvious that something happened to the keel. I'm going to monitor, maybe take close up pictures to come back to 6 months later and compare.

All good suggestions and I've done pretty much everything you describe. I just keep forgetting the auto-tiller. The rigging was re-done a little over year ago.

At this time I really want to get on the water ... maybe I'll satisfy myself with puttering around the harbor ... Some say it could take up to April for the channel entrance to clear ...

There's gelcoat repair and more sail repair/checks still waiting for me ... I just taped my first micro tear on a spinnaker, right at the edge of the luff tape. Not sure it'll last. The gelcoat repair I don't look forward to ...

 

[Steevee]

Gel coat? That boat has been painted. Don't even worry about it. Maybe just brush on a couple layers of 2 part epoxy on the rail ding, sand it and paint it. The scuff on the hull...leave it alone unless you plan painting the whole boat. Go sailing.

 

[WBChristie]

Ill give you a dollar

You reminded me that I have this Brookhouse mux. The digital display was an option and can be plugged into the mux to help diagnose issues. I ended up not using it and now Rags is almost entirely NMEA 2000. Will sell for a modest contribution to the boat kitty.

View attachment 2183

 

[AlanH]

If there was a "thumbs up" smiley, I'd used it here!

April? Really? Yuck.

 

[Lanikai]

Like Steevee says, I wouldn't even bother with the 2nd one. You're bound to earn a couple more anyway.
For the one at the deck joint, just tear away the broken bits, sand it, and glob on some putty (Marinetex is nice, but the cheaper polyester stuff will also do just fine), then sand the glob after it cures. You could leave it as is, but personally I'd spend the 15 minutes on that one because it looks like a potential snag or tear hazard to lines, sails, and hands.