IOR & MORC event in SF?

[Philpott]

Anyway,to get back to the original question, would be interested in MORC, but no have the $$ to fulfill the Coast Guard requirements for playing in the ocean.

Thank you for that incredibly articulate explanation, Alan. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is an example of the depth of knowledge represented by this club. Deep.

By the way, though, those safety requirements were not imposed by the Coast Guard. Following the Low Speed Chase tragedy they were hammered out by representatives of local yacht and sailing clubs.

 

[AlanH]

It's worth noting that when the IOR was proposed in the very late 1960's, it was supposed to address unsavory issues in yacht design created by CCA designers working "to the rule" rather than to "what makes a good racing boat". It's kind of funny in retrospect that the IOR turned out much less seaworthy boats than the CCA ever did. The main complaint nowadays about CCA-type boats is that they are initially tender, and have to heel a fair bit until a certain percentage of the hull is immersed and the weight of the ballast moves significantly out of the line of bouyancy of the boat. This works against them being comfortable cruising boats, and it must be admitted that CCA-stype boats do have rather slack bilges and not a whole whole lot of initial form stability. Comparing the hull cross-section of a CCA-type boat like an Pearson Vanguard or Alberg 30 to a similarly-sized, strictly cruising post-CCA boat like a Farallone29/Bodega 30 or a even moreso, a Westsail 32 will reveal a big difference.

There's another online explanation of all this alphabet soup, written in a well-known cruising forum. The author clearly knows a lot but claims that the CCA in its later years created some really bad boats. I'm very much not so sure about that.

The CCA, as an organization, still exists. However, the membership includes a significant proportion of powerboats and the group is pretty small, now. The "rule" is long defunct. However, if you want to look over a design review of what is maybe a truly classic, near-ultimate example of a CCA yacht, you can review this document about the Sparkman and Stevens Impala.

https://cruisingclub.org/pdfs/bws_impala.pdf

lovely boat....certainly not the most efficient use of space, I suppose.

I guess I should also say that Charley Morgan, while he designed a number of CCA-type boats, had a LONG career and designed a mess of IOR boats as well. The Morgan 27 is a really good example. I thought about buying a Morgan 27 a couple of years ago, but the keel setup and the eenxy main/enormous foretriangle convinced me to take a pass.

 

[Lanikai]

By the way, though, those safety requirements were not imposed by the Coast Guard. Following the Low Speed Chase tragedy they were hammered out by representatives of local yacht and sailing clubs.

Not to hijack -- well, sort of, since it's MORC and therefore NCORC related -- but does Dura Mater have a lower set of bars on her pulpit & pushpit? This thread inspired me to review my "can I race where the whales are yet" to-do list, and realized my bow pulpit fails NCORC requirement 2.4.3: no more than 14.2" open vertical space "between the vertical portion of stanchion pulpit and any part of the boat", which I assume means the aft part of the pulpit (as opposed to the roundy bit up front).
I suppose I could just tie some Dyneema on and tick the box, but I'm inclined to get lower bars welded on to match the lower lifeline (aside: can a welder just do it at the dock? know any near Brisbane?). Nearly falling through the deceptively large chasm in the 2-27 pulpit a couple times made me realize these rules aren't just "the man, man", but do harbor some wisdom.

-Adam

 

[AlanH]

Tenk yew velly mooch Ms. DM.

About the offshore requirements.... I thought that it went something like this.

Bad things happened...Daisy, Low Speed Chase and another boat loss that I'm not remembering right now.
Bad publicity...threat of lawsuit.

Sailing organizations responded with conversations about safety, recommendations about what to carry, safety-at-sea seminars, etc.

Coast Guard took those conversations about safety and equipment suggestions and made them requirements, as in, "If you guys don't put these requirements into your rules, we won't issue you an event permit".

Sailing organizations codified the earlier "discussions" and "recommendations" into "rules" which were in line with the Coasties requirements. If they didn't there would be no organized racing outside the Gate.


.....But I was kind of out of the room when all of this happened, so I might have it wrong. Mind y'all, while I don't agree with common sense of all of the equipment requirements, I don't object to efforts to make things safer. I'll just have to save my pennies and borrow / buy used when I can.

 

[BobJ]

Thankfully that's not how it went down Alan.

The only item formally added by the CG was a "406 device" after the loss of DAISY. Then there are the same basic CG requirements we've had for years for all boats (PFD's, etc.) Everything else required for our local ocean races was determined by consensus among members of the NorCalORC. The NorCalORC list was later absorbed into the USSER (US Sailing Equipment Requirements). SSS had three representatives on the NorCalORC when the original list was hashed out, so our interests were represented.

My only complaint is that SSS gave up its own shorthanded-specific equipment requirements (for its ocean races*) as part of that process. In so doing I think we lost some of our autonomy and the leadership role we used to have in the local racing community. On the plus side, the standardized rules arguably make it easier to do various ocean races without needing to comply with multiple equipment lists.

Finally, and this is important: Both the NorCalORC (what's left of it) and US Sailing encourage race organizers to tailor the equipment list to their specific races. If SSS wants to add or remove a requirement, it should feel free to do that. I won't belabor this but we inquired of our insurance agent (who is one of the pioneers of regatta liability insurance), and he did not believe modifying the equipment requirements would change SSS's potential liability arising from a race. With reference to the subject of this thread (MORC, etc.), substantial pruning of the USSER would be necessary to get those boats back into the ocean. This COULD be done.

*The Singlehanded TransPac continues to have its own equipment requirements and hopefully it will stay that way. LongPac uses the USSER (Coastal) but that race includes doublehanders, so maybe that's okay.

 

[Gamayun]

Great thread Thanks to everyone who contributed. I really appreciate the tutorial on Sailboat Racing 101 and knowing more about the evolution of the sport.

 

[BobJ]

...one of those boats, with most of the internal ballast taken out and a new modern keel bolted on, is still racing quite happily out of the Alameda Marina. It's been revived and painted sparkle-bronze and if I could remember the boat/owners name, I'd write it here.

JOYICITY fka FUN: Link

View attachment 1833

 

[Philpott]

Wow. That's a beauty.

 

[AlanH]

Linky to a rather typically Ted Brewer curmudgeonly article about rating rules, going 'waaaaay back.

http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/ratingrules.php

============

"Fun", back in the day, probably about 1978

same boat on her trailer, back in the day.

Not sure which boat this was ... even though it says "Scorpion" on the side of the boat. Note that Fun and this boat look TOTALLY different from the Farr 727, but yet both are quarter-tonners. EDIT: this is apparently a Peterson half-tonner...

Hindquarters-end view of the Farr 727, also a quarter-tonner to illustrate the radical changes that took place during the development of the IOR quarter-ton class.

=======================

Bob, thanks for the clarification on the evolution of the "out the Gate" equipment requirements...

 

[AlanH]

Anyway, to get back to the original point...is there interest in a MORC / IOR series...

I can't get excited about the SSS running such a thing, so I'd say it would have to be someone else. In terms of ratings, I don't know where the MORC rating database is, though I believe it exists (or used to) and finding a certified MORC measurer these days is essentially impossible. Someone could volunteer to get trained, I suppose, but I can't get excited about paying $$$ to have my boat rated. If I could pay $25 and get a stock rating for an S-2 7.9 then, OK.

I have no horse in the rating discussion...MORC, PHRF, doesn't really matter to me, personally.

 

[Black Jack]

Anyway, to get back to the original point...is there interest in a MORC / IOR series...

I can't get excited about the SSS running such a thing, so I'd say it would have to be someone else. In terms of ratings, I don't know where the MORC rating database is, though I believe it exists (or used to) and finding a certified MORC measurer these days is essentially impossible. Someone could volunteer to get trained, I suppose, but I can't get excited about paying $$$ to have my boat rated. If I could pay $25 and get a stock rating for an S-2 7.9 then, OK.

I have no horse in the rating discussion...MORC, PHRF, doesn't really matter to me, personally.

I now may have a little help in my desire to having CCA/1/2 ton racing return to the San Francisco Bay. I am getting those who can make this a reality together. Will try to flush out more when i get firm commitments and facts. As many pointed out, this is not likely a SSS event and may be rolled into one of the other popular YRA bay venues.

I am excited to be racing another Mull 30, Lively Lady in the TBF at the end of this month. PHRF set by the YRA and all - which I am cool with. Baby steps I know. Its been decades since these two boats faced each other in a bay race. In the months to come, we will have Bruce out with us making 3 with the Shadow. For those who would like to sail like it was the old days, in our returned class and among friends, i would hope you'd please join us.

 

[Boulouf]

More than happy to do a revival for the Quarters in the SF bay!
I got the Summertime Dream from Scott Owens (designed by Carl Schumaker)!

Here a good link for any one to navigate with the acronyms and more:

http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/index 2.HTML
http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/E86 pretty penny.htm

 

[AntsUiga]

The prospect of getting 1/4 tonners out and racing seems like a fun event. I am not sure there is a need to recreate all the former conditions - for example, where are you going to find a Kaypro or Osborne computer and the rating programs. It seems all the boats that race have a PHRF rating. If anyone can figure out how a current PHRF rating differs from a MORC rating - good luck.

For the size of the group, it seems everyone would be aware of boat modifications that impact speed.

Good luck and get them out there.

I remember looking at buying one of the boats that had an onboard fire in the early 90's. Between relocating to Southern CA and trying to figure out a rebuild, I wisely avoided the purchase. The boat (sorry, I don't recall name) has since been rebuilt and is out racing.

I did have my fun with Eclipse, a Britton Chance 3/4 tonner that I bought.

Enjoy,

Ants