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Late Pacs
- Thread starter Philpott
- Start date
LIBRA turned back at 0915 today, with nearest point of land, Pt. Sur, bearing 70 degrees mag., at 162 nm. As noted above by Dirk, forecast NW winds, 10-15 knots should fetch him home nicely. Good going, Sir.
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Wow, someone actually did that? I'm shocked. Dealing with all the traffic in the bay would leave me exhausted after all those laps.
Well, that's a bit snarky and the "lesson" completely unnecessary. (Had to learn to do conversion in my head while flying. Aviation seems to intermingle statue and nautical miles with somewhat greater regularity than the sailing world does.)
At least it's nice to know that the rules operate on assumptions rather than specifications. And what is this sextant thing you mention?
Care to inform us what happened with regard to bizirka's qualifier issue regarding statute/nautical miles and distance sailed and whether the cruise was acceptable or not? (See posts 63 through 68 of this thread.)
OWL turned for home at 1653 hrs., Monday afternoon, reaching 116 nm offshore Pigeon Point, bearing 062 m. LIBRA should be finishing her qualifier sometime this afternoon, Tues. Winds in their vicinity are ~WNW, 10 knots.
AD ASTRA is underway from Half Moon Bay, and making good progress to the SW.
https://share.delorme.com/AdAstra
AD ASTRA is underway from Half Moon Bay, and making good progress to the SW.
https://share.delorme.com/AdAstra
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brianb
Olson 34 Driver
Hi John,
It was meant to be critical as we don't want participants to start shaving the rules. I actually thought you were joking. The intent is quite clear. The entire event, as with every sailing event I have ever entered, is measured in NM, as you know. I decided to take the critical approach in an attempt to blunt a notion that statute miles were acceptable. Regarding the other entrant who posted a FB photo showing miles we discussed the total distance sailed and resolved that he had completed the qualifier.
Have fun on the qualifier. Maybe in 2018, for the first time we will state that it must be nautical miles, and Shell Oil road maps, or Google Earth photos, are not allowed for charting the event.
Regards,
Brian
It was meant to be critical as we don't want participants to start shaving the rules. I actually thought you were joking. The intent is quite clear. The entire event, as with every sailing event I have ever entered, is measured in NM, as you know. I decided to take the critical approach in an attempt to blunt a notion that statute miles were acceptable. Regarding the other entrant who posted a FB photo showing miles we discussed the total distance sailed and resolved that he had completed the qualifier.
Have fun on the qualifier. Maybe in 2018, for the first time we will state that it must be nautical miles, and Shell Oil road maps, or Google Earth photos, are not allowed for charting the event.
Regards,
Brian
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AD ASTRA reached 57 miles offshore before turning back. "Weather window will close too early" Tough call for him. Offshore NW winds increasing to 15-25 knots by tomorrow, Wednesday, and further increasing through Friday, 25-35.
Spinnaker Cuppers should have a fast ride and get to Monterey in time for chowder Friday evening.
Spinnaker Cuppers should have a fast ride and get to Monterey in time for chowder Friday evening.
dhusselman
New member
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Last Wednesday night I went over to sail out of Richmond with Chris Case on Fugu and we walked over to take a looksee at Mary and Rich's new boat. Wow. That's what we both kept saying out loud. We didn't touch it, because there were no smudges on it anywhere and we didn't want to get in trouble. It looks to be made for single/doublehanding, with all those lines led aft. I remember Racer X's red steering wheel, which seemed a whimsical touch. Maybe the same person who ordered that wheel ordered the nectarine orange mainsheet? It was for sure a thing of beauty. Have fun, kids!
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
I thought you didn't touch it because it's new name is CAN'T TOUCH THIS.
It's not a shorthanded boat in its current configuration, and you'd have to be Magilla Gorilla to work the loads. They plan to race with full crew and maybe keep the J/105 for doublehanding, SSS, etc. (Did you walk all the way over to KKMI to see it?)
Back to the thread - it looks like Gregory just passed the Lightbucket.
It's not a shorthanded boat in its current configuration, and you'd have to be Magilla Gorilla to work the loads. They plan to race with full crew and maybe keep the J/105 for doublehanding, SSS, etc. (Did you walk all the way over to KKMI to see it?)
Back to the thread - it looks like Gregory just passed the Lightbucket.
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Oh, maybe there is another J88 in the Richmond YC marina? Brand new. And YEEEEAAAAA! Greg! Littlest boat, brave guy!
dhusselman
New member
Looks like Libra is back in port. Great job completing the qualifier!
Owl is sailing WSW to get some extra miles. He probably will turn back during the night and could be back in port tomorrow afternoon.
Owl is sailing WSW to get some extra miles. He probably will turn back during the night and could be back in port tomorrow afternoon.
Good job, LIBRA!
And OWL. I temporarily had to stop watching OWL due to dizziness until I realized John was attempting to sign the boat's name with his track.
I'm off to visit the skipper of one of the smallest boats to complete the SHTP, the Cal 20 BLACK FEATHERS, in 2008. If you haven't read the book Black Feathers, it's a great story. Robert and Jeanne now live in Forest Hills, east of Auburn in the Sierra foothills, where he builds Taiko drums.
And OWL. I temporarily had to stop watching OWL due to dizziness until I realized John was attempting to sign the boat's name with his track.
I'm off to visit the skipper of one of the smallest boats to complete the SHTP, the Cal 20 BLACK FEATHERS, in 2008. If you haven't read the book Black Feathers, it's a great story. Robert and Jeanne now live in Forest Hills, east of Auburn in the Sierra foothills, where he builds Taiko drums.
At my age, my memory no doubt dims...but I'm fairly sure that when I qualified for the '84 SHTP, I sailed out 200 miles (actually more, since there was no sun there to take my required sextant shots) and then back from whatever distance. I believe the 200 miles offshore was a requirement...total "at least" 400 NM. Perhaps the rules have changed. Perhaps I was just being hard on myself...after all, it was 32 years ago!
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Sir, when you met up with the Transpac racers after the 1978 race you were coming from, forgive me if, at my age, my memory with no doubt dims, Tahiti. Or was it Rangoon? Or Fatu Hiva? Or Venezuela? I think sailing 200 miles offshore was a mere walk in the watery park for you. See you in Kauai!
Results of my shakedown cruise.
While I hoped to complete the qualifying cruise, the sail would have required I stay out through Thursday to make the required 400 miles. The forecast I obtained on Tuesday called for 12 to 14 foot seas on Thursday. The swell period forecast was 9 seconds - worse than the conditions under which I intentionally sail. So I turned around to avoid pointlessly burning up another two vacation days. Instead, since the conditions were very typical offshore, I used the sail as a shakedown to observe my boat's performance while heavily loaded. With cold, unemotional analysis, I've come to this conclusion: I need a bigger boat.
I'm posting my results here in case someone can find a fault in my logic. Having spent a significant chunk of time and life savings preparing for the race, I'd be happy to hear of any gross errors on my part. I know smaller boats have completed the cruise in 21 days. Black Feathers did it, and I admire the skipper. But my early 60s vintage boat with it's modified full keel - while stable and sturdy - clings tenaciously to the water and defies proper balancing when an extra 1,000 pounds are added in the only available space.
----
Conclusion: Assuming moderate wind, seastates and significant time spent sailing on a reach point of sail with ahead to abeam seas, the race could not be completed within the required 21 days. The boat was clearly overloaded. The shakedown sail was conducted with a load representing two-thirds the weight of consumables, to bias results toward performance in the first third of the cruise. Without clear skies for solar power production, sufficient power for the boat would not be available from the water generator at speeds below 4.8 knots, requiring use of the gasoline generator, in turn requiring more fuel than the 6 gallons carried. Downwind sailing in following seas may require use of a drogue device to manage yaw stability, adversely affecting speed.
Conditions:
Mild to moderate seas. Sustained winds 8 to 11 knots, maximum gusts of 16 knots. A close reach (50 to 60 degree apparent wind angle) point of sail was chosen on both tacks with head to abeam seas. Along with a full inventory of sails, 200 pounds of leadshot was added to simulate stores. When embarking, the total stores over basic empty weight would be:
Batteries: 300 pounds (358 A/H)
Gasoline generator: 40 pounds
Full sail inventory: 60 pounds
Life raft: 65 pounds
Unconsumed food, water, (simulated by lead shot) and spares: 300 pounds
Fuel for generator (6 gallons): 36 pounds
Myself: 200 pounds
Total: 1,001 pounds
Cargo weight percentage of boat empty weight: ([1,001 / 5120] X100): 19.5%
The 200 pounds of lead shot simulating 20 gallons of water plus 40 pounds of food and gear was placed at sole level in the forward cabin as far aft as possible - just forward of the main bulkhead under the mast step. Actual placement of those stores would be less optimal. To minimize adversely affecting roll stability, the life raft was placed on the forward sole (the only space available).
Stats:
Time underway: 32 hours 40 minutes.
Distance traveled: 135.9 miles (130 miles under sail)
Average speed (without engine during return): 3.9 knots.
Extrapolated time to Hawaii at average speed (2,300 actual miles assumed): 590 hours (24.6 days)
I estimate the same sail without the stores on board would have yielded an average speed of 4.8 knots.
Observations:
The boat was sluggish. While not in motion, the boat was balanced and "on its lines," though loaded was 3 inches lower at the water line. The static pitch balance was level (no up or down pitch at the slip), but the bow pitched down as speed increased and was down 3 to 5 degrees above 4 knots, demonstrating positive dynamic pitch instability. The bow buried in head seas causing considerable speed loss in swells compared to its normal performance. There was also a significant pitch down affect and detectable adverse yaw in light following seas. Moderate following seas would probably require use of a drogue device to maintain yaw stability. There was no noticeable affect on roll stability, but with actual stores placed higher than the leadshot at sole level, roll stability may be affected. The water generator (Hamilton Ferris) produced minimal power at speeds below 4.8 knots. Acquiring weather charts from saildocs via SSB caused the chartplotter to malfunction. It was restored with a reboot. The autopilot (Raymarine tiller pilot) was unaffected, while it was operating in wind-follow mode (the chartplotter failure would have cascaded to the autopilot had it been in coupled-operation with the chartplotter). All other systems performed as expected. 8 foot cross-seas were encountered during part of the sail which required running a jackline across the cabin overhead to permit standing upright. Light rain fell for 10 hours. No water was brought aboard and the bilge remained dry.
While I hoped to complete the qualifying cruise, the sail would have required I stay out through Thursday to make the required 400 miles. The forecast I obtained on Tuesday called for 12 to 14 foot seas on Thursday. The swell period forecast was 9 seconds - worse than the conditions under which I intentionally sail. So I turned around to avoid pointlessly burning up another two vacation days. Instead, since the conditions were very typical offshore, I used the sail as a shakedown to observe my boat's performance while heavily loaded. With cold, unemotional analysis, I've come to this conclusion: I need a bigger boat.
I'm posting my results here in case someone can find a fault in my logic. Having spent a significant chunk of time and life savings preparing for the race, I'd be happy to hear of any gross errors on my part. I know smaller boats have completed the cruise in 21 days. Black Feathers did it, and I admire the skipper. But my early 60s vintage boat with it's modified full keel - while stable and sturdy - clings tenaciously to the water and defies proper balancing when an extra 1,000 pounds are added in the only available space.
----
Conclusion: Assuming moderate wind, seastates and significant time spent sailing on a reach point of sail with ahead to abeam seas, the race could not be completed within the required 21 days. The boat was clearly overloaded. The shakedown sail was conducted with a load representing two-thirds the weight of consumables, to bias results toward performance in the first third of the cruise. Without clear skies for solar power production, sufficient power for the boat would not be available from the water generator at speeds below 4.8 knots, requiring use of the gasoline generator, in turn requiring more fuel than the 6 gallons carried. Downwind sailing in following seas may require use of a drogue device to manage yaw stability, adversely affecting speed.
Conditions:
Mild to moderate seas. Sustained winds 8 to 11 knots, maximum gusts of 16 knots. A close reach (50 to 60 degree apparent wind angle) point of sail was chosen on both tacks with head to abeam seas. Along with a full inventory of sails, 200 pounds of leadshot was added to simulate stores. When embarking, the total stores over basic empty weight would be:
Batteries: 300 pounds (358 A/H)
Gasoline generator: 40 pounds
Full sail inventory: 60 pounds
Life raft: 65 pounds
Unconsumed food, water, (simulated by lead shot) and spares: 300 pounds
Fuel for generator (6 gallons): 36 pounds
Myself: 200 pounds
Total: 1,001 pounds
Cargo weight percentage of boat empty weight: ([1,001 / 5120] X100): 19.5%
The 200 pounds of lead shot simulating 20 gallons of water plus 40 pounds of food and gear was placed at sole level in the forward cabin as far aft as possible - just forward of the main bulkhead under the mast step. Actual placement of those stores would be less optimal. To minimize adversely affecting roll stability, the life raft was placed on the forward sole (the only space available).
Stats:
Time underway: 32 hours 40 minutes.
Distance traveled: 135.9 miles (130 miles under sail)
Average speed (without engine during return): 3.9 knots.
Extrapolated time to Hawaii at average speed (2,300 actual miles assumed): 590 hours (24.6 days)
I estimate the same sail without the stores on board would have yielded an average speed of 4.8 knots.
Observations:
The boat was sluggish. While not in motion, the boat was balanced and "on its lines," though loaded was 3 inches lower at the water line. The static pitch balance was level (no up or down pitch at the slip), but the bow pitched down as speed increased and was down 3 to 5 degrees above 4 knots, demonstrating positive dynamic pitch instability. The bow buried in head seas causing considerable speed loss in swells compared to its normal performance. There was also a significant pitch down affect and detectable adverse yaw in light following seas. Moderate following seas would probably require use of a drogue device to maintain yaw stability. There was no noticeable affect on roll stability, but with actual stores placed higher than the leadshot at sole level, roll stability may be affected. The water generator (Hamilton Ferris) produced minimal power at speeds below 4.8 knots. Acquiring weather charts from saildocs via SSB caused the chartplotter to malfunction. It was restored with a reboot. The autopilot (Raymarine tiller pilot) was unaffected, while it was operating in wind-follow mode (the chartplotter failure would have cascaded to the autopilot had it been in coupled-operation with the chartplotter). All other systems performed as expected. 8 foot cross-seas were encountered during part of the sail which required running a jackline across the cabin overhead to permit standing upright. Light rain fell for 10 hours. No water was brought aboard and the bilge remained dry.
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