Big thanks to Tom as RC and keeping the cats all herding nicely together. Skip, if we think about it ahead of time, we should be able to set up a steaming video or at least a Skype connection for those who'd like to listen in. I'll see what I can do to facilitate this.
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LongPac Updates
- Thread starter tboussie
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Big thanks to Tom as RC and keeping the cats all herding nicely together. Skip, if we think about it ahead of time, we should be able to set up a steaming video or at least a Skype connection for those who'd like to listen in. I'll see what I can do to facilitate this.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
I plan to post race details but I still can't organize my brain. And I'm still bouncing - the physical effects feel more post-SHTP than post-LongPac. This one was a doozy!
Returning to RYC after the finish, I literally couldn't dock the boat. Dock mates were stationed at all four corners and on the third or fourth try, I got it lined up enough to get into the slip.
Yesterday I did a thorough boat clean-up and damage assessment. Damage minor: Jib furling line nearly chafed through, lower shrouds very loose, head area wet due to a leaky hatch, a minor rub from the plastic dock rail (which cleaned right up) and of course, no autopilot. I hope to talk through the AP issues today with Eric Steinberg. After studying the sequence of error codes it appears I may have just worn out the old Robertson drive.
Thanks to the R/C, dock mates and all my friends in the SSS. More to come.
Returning to RYC after the finish, I literally couldn't dock the boat. Dock mates were stationed at all four corners and on the third or fourth try, I got it lined up enough to get into the slip.
Yesterday I did a thorough boat clean-up and damage assessment. Damage minor: Jib furling line nearly chafed through, lower shrouds very loose, head area wet due to a leaky hatch, a minor rub from the plastic dock rail (which cleaned right up) and of course, no autopilot. I hope to talk through the AP issues today with Eric Steinberg. After studying the sequence of error codes it appears I may have just worn out the old Robertson drive.
Thanks to the R/C, dock mates and all my friends in the SSS. More to come.
dolfinbill
New member
Great job Bob on first leading the race and then dealing with the autopilot and sleep issues. I hope this means you will be sailing to Hanalei Bay next summer.
Daydreamer
SAILOR
Just to show how whacked out I was,
I'm still flabbergasted!
I'm still flabbergasted!
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
I've tried in vain to organize the race into an ordered commentary, so I'll just post recollections as they come to mind. Here are a few about being forced to hand-steer for long stretches:
Surprise! is fast. Her speed comes from low wetted surface/prismatic coefficient and a short-chord keel and spade rudder. She lacks the directional stability of say, a Cal 40 with it's much longer keel. She balances well but you simply can't let go of the helm, even briefly.
Having placed an over-reliance on her supposedly robust hydraulic linear drive, I hadn't set up an alternative sheet-to-steering arrangement or backup cockpit AP. The Pelagic I saved from Ragtime! was on the workbench at home. So I had two options: Hand-steer or heave-to. I hove-to three times on the way back, evident from the track. The first time was to attempt to restore the AP and failing that, to communicate with the R/C and prepare for 14-18 hours of hand steering to get home. I moved everything I thought I'd need into the cockpit, made/ate a sandwich and used the head. Then I got back underway.
The second heave-to was after seeing and talking with Sea Wisdom. I had to take a break, eat and get some rest. I no longer considered myself to be in the race and was just focused on getting home without assistance. I set my alarm for 90 minutes and got up at 0130, feeling pretty good and thinking I might be able to gut it out the rest of the way. I was wrong.
I don't remember how long it was, but it was still dark when I hove-to the third time. I was starting to push the tiller the wrong way and accidentally jibed a couple times in the strong wind. I'd had a canned, high-caffeine drink and concentrated as hard as I could on the compass, but I couldn't stay with it. So I called VTS on Ch. 12 to see if they could locate me on AIS. That team is great. They knew right where I was and although they couldn't make any promises, they said I could stop for awhile without being in the path of any ships. In fact, they said the next ship shouldn't be transiting that area until the next day around 1300. When I awoke it was getting light and I was shocked at the amount of wind and the size and steepness of the waves. "I have to start sailing in THIS?"
On a lighter note:
I got cold at one point, not quite shivering but needing more layers. Everything was out of reach in the cabin and I didn't want to heave-to again. What could I do? The telescoping boat hook was within reach in the cockpit locker so I extended it and poked around in the pile of clothes below and speared another mid-layer. With one hand always on the tiller it was a chore to get the foulies off, don the mid-layer and put everything back on. Peeing was a total PITA for similar reasons.
Surprise! is fast. Her speed comes from low wetted surface/prismatic coefficient and a short-chord keel and spade rudder. She lacks the directional stability of say, a Cal 40 with it's much longer keel. She balances well but you simply can't let go of the helm, even briefly.
Having placed an over-reliance on her supposedly robust hydraulic linear drive, I hadn't set up an alternative sheet-to-steering arrangement or backup cockpit AP. The Pelagic I saved from Ragtime! was on the workbench at home. So I had two options: Hand-steer or heave-to. I hove-to three times on the way back, evident from the track. The first time was to attempt to restore the AP and failing that, to communicate with the R/C and prepare for 14-18 hours of hand steering to get home. I moved everything I thought I'd need into the cockpit, made/ate a sandwich and used the head. Then I got back underway.
The second heave-to was after seeing and talking with Sea Wisdom. I had to take a break, eat and get some rest. I no longer considered myself to be in the race and was just focused on getting home without assistance. I set my alarm for 90 minutes and got up at 0130, feeling pretty good and thinking I might be able to gut it out the rest of the way. I was wrong.
I don't remember how long it was, but it was still dark when I hove-to the third time. I was starting to push the tiller the wrong way and accidentally jibed a couple times in the strong wind. I'd had a canned, high-caffeine drink and concentrated as hard as I could on the compass, but I couldn't stay with it. So I called VTS on Ch. 12 to see if they could locate me on AIS. That team is great. They knew right where I was and although they couldn't make any promises, they said I could stop for awhile without being in the path of any ships. In fact, they said the next ship shouldn't be transiting that area until the next day around 1300. When I awoke it was getting light and I was shocked at the amount of wind and the size and steepness of the waves. "I have to start sailing in THIS?"
On a lighter note:
I got cold at one point, not quite shivering but needing more layers. Everything was out of reach in the cabin and I didn't want to heave-to again. What could I do? The telescoping boat hook was within reach in the cockpit locker so I extended it and poked around in the pile of clothes below and speared another mid-layer. With one hand always on the tiller it was a chore to get the foulies off, don the mid-layer and put everything back on. Peeing was a total PITA for similar reasons.
mike cunningham
Freedom 30 "Jacqueline"
Man, does that sound familiar. In 15 the wind wasn't nearly as bad as you all experienced this time but the sleep issue and hand steering sucked. I wish I had done what you did and hove to for awhile to get some sack time.
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pogen
Sailing canoe "Kūʻaupaʻa"
Glad to see you and everyone made it home safe. Congrats to all!
As to the 'robust' drive fallacy, the exact same thing happened to us on PacCup 2012 -- putting all the eggs into one hydraulic basket which failed at the race mid-point, due to operator error. Very tough hand steering so far.
In the run up to the 2018 SHTP a friend on the dock asked if I had a backup to my hydraulic below-deck AP. No, said I, smug in the knowledge that the Monitor wind vane would be my primary means of self-steering. I explained that I had used the Monitor successfully virtually every time off shore for more than a year, including for all of my qualifier in March.
Then in the race, of course, I did not set the vane after clearing the Gate, and instead let the AP steer the boat -- until it died during the SSB morning roll call on day 3. And only then did I realize that in all my supposedly vast experience with the Monitor I had always relied on the AP to steer while rigging the vane's steering lines to the the wheel adapter and setting the air paddle to the present course. So stooopid to have not thought of that until that moment. It is not so easy to set up the vane alone at sea with no AP.
Even after getting the Monitor in operation the first time there were several times over the first half of the race where I sorely missed the AP. The system I had used for connecting the steering lines to the wheel adapter worked quite well in typical So Cal conditions but wasn't up to the rigors of the trade winds and large seas, and had to be re-set a number of times. The worst episode was at 3 AM local time, mid ocean, when both steering lines unwrapped from the wheel adapter in 25+ wind and 10+ seas. Trying to hand steer in those conditions while simultaneously struggling to get the system back together was rather challenging.
Hats off to Bob J for enduring considerably worse.
My hydraulic AP has since been restored -- the computer had failed, and the factory was able to repair it for about $300. And my system for the Monitor's steering lines is now as close to bomb-proof as I think it can be. But I will not set off to cross an ocean again without a second AP on board.
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
Hi Carliane, A note on streaming video or audio from past experience at SSS meetings, and a lot of biz meetings:
We will need a microphone or two that are fed into the streaming system.
More importantly a discipline will have to be established that all questions are taken via a mic., and failing that the question should be repeated by the host, into the mic.
All responses must follow the same protocol.
Side conversations, if near the mic. need to be inhibited.
If this equipment isn't available and the protocol can't be established then the streaming audience won't be able to tell what is going on.
Hi BobJ
Congrats getting SURPRISE! home safe and sound! Several of us here at CBC watched your NWerly outbound route with interest, and tried to imagine conditions nearly closehauled. Your telescoping boathook clothing
retrieval method is giving all a good chuckle.
A couple of questions when you have time.
1. With new rigging, was the apparent cause of the slack lower rigging stretch? Starboard side only, or both sides?
2. What was your method of heaving to for rest? It appeared from the tracker SURPRISE! would drift downwind at 2-4 knots.
3. DAZZLER and I wonder if the AP issue could have been due to lowered voltage to AP.
4. Several Cal-40's with the newer rudders have "spin out" issues when the tiller is released. It is because the rudder design is overbalanced. A fine line between 2 finger control and having to concentrate on steering every moment..Do you think the short-chord keel was a proximate cause of not being able to let go of the tiller when hand steering. Or could rudder balance also have played a part?
Best from Capitola!
-sleddog
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Hahaha! Inhibit singlehanders? I’ll bring my little Lumix videocam on its tripod and my iphone. Just ordered new micro discs. No wifi needed. And might Mr Hedgehog still have access to that fancy hi tech equipment? We’ll have sense surround!
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BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
1. With new rigging, was the apparent cause of the slack lower rigging stretch? Starboard side only, or both sides?
Scott is on his way to race Pyewacket in the TP so I'm awaiting a reply. The lowers are relatively short so the amount of stretch is surprising - it appears to be about an inch on the port side and just a bit less on starboard. Do swages ever slip? Needless to say, I'm not going to merely tighten them and keep sailing, and will probably replace them (and maybe the mids) with rod, like the uppers.
2. What was your method of heaving to for rest? It appeared from the tracker SURPRISE! would drift downwind at 2-4 knots.
Heaving-to is a lifesaver. The boat calms down dramatically and other than the luffing main, becomes quiet and stable. Yes, you are drifting downwind at a rapid rate in that much wind (25-30k).
I come up to close-hauled and ease the main to start slowing down, then grind in the jib as flat as possible. While there's still enough way-on to tack, I tack over, ease the main more and when nearly stopped, lash the tiller fully to leeward. Getting the jib flat reduces the oscillation as the boat balances between the backed jib and the slight forward push from the back of the main. There's little wear-and-tear on the jib because it's not luffing, but it did cause the furling line to chafe on the bow pulpit - that's getting fixed. It's hard on the main in that much wind though. I'll take it over to North for inspection and repair.
3. DAZZLER and I wonder if the AP issue could have been due to lowered voltage to AP.
No. I replaced the house bank just before the race (it was 12 years old and wouldn't fully recharge). I monitored the voltage and SOC constantly and ran the engine as needed.
4. Several Cal-40's with the newer rudders have "spin out" issues when the tiller is released. It is because the rudder design is overbalanced. A fine line between 2 finger control and having to concentrate on steering every moment..Do you think the short-chord keel was a proximate cause of not being able to let go of the tiller when hand steering. Or could rudder balance also have played a part?
It probably played a part. It's funny because I already have the famous Schumacher rudder upgrade - it came with the boat!
5. Best from Capitola!
Best to you as well. I'm almost ready for you to come and sail the new-and-improved Surprise!
Scott is on his way to race Pyewacket in the TP so I'm awaiting a reply. The lowers are relatively short so the amount of stretch is surprising - it appears to be about an inch on the port side and just a bit less on starboard. Do swages ever slip? Needless to say, I'm not going to merely tighten them and keep sailing, and will probably replace them (and maybe the mids) with rod, like the uppers.
2. What was your method of heaving to for rest? It appeared from the tracker SURPRISE! would drift downwind at 2-4 knots.
Heaving-to is a lifesaver. The boat calms down dramatically and other than the luffing main, becomes quiet and stable. Yes, you are drifting downwind at a rapid rate in that much wind (25-30k).
I come up to close-hauled and ease the main to start slowing down, then grind in the jib as flat as possible. While there's still enough way-on to tack, I tack over, ease the main more and when nearly stopped, lash the tiller fully to leeward. Getting the jib flat reduces the oscillation as the boat balances between the backed jib and the slight forward push from the back of the main. There's little wear-and-tear on the jib because it's not luffing, but it did cause the furling line to chafe on the bow pulpit - that's getting fixed. It's hard on the main in that much wind though. I'll take it over to North for inspection and repair.
3. DAZZLER and I wonder if the AP issue could have been due to lowered voltage to AP.
No. I replaced the house bank just before the race (it was 12 years old and wouldn't fully recharge). I monitored the voltage and SOC constantly and ran the engine as needed.
4. Several Cal-40's with the newer rudders have "spin out" issues when the tiller is released. It is because the rudder design is overbalanced. A fine line between 2 finger control and having to concentrate on steering every moment..Do you think the short-chord keel was a proximate cause of not being able to let go of the tiller when hand steering. Or could rudder balance also have played a part?
It probably played a part. It's funny because I already have the famous Schumacher rudder upgrade - it came with the boat!
5. Best from Capitola!
Best to you as well. I'm almost ready for you to come and sail the new-and-improved Surprise!
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
Hey Bob,
I would love to look at the hydraulics on your boat and see what might be wrong. The Robertson setup is pretty bullet proof but anything will wear out. Keep us posted. BTW, before installing the Pelagic, if you are going to drive the below deck hydro, call me. That is a different setup than the above deck tiller drive.
Brian
I would love to look at the hydraulics on your boat and see what might be wrong. The Robertson setup is pretty bullet proof but anything will wear out. Keep us posted. BTW, before installing the Pelagic, if you are going to drive the below deck hydro, call me. That is a different setup than the above deck tiller drive.
Brian
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Yes, please! I talked to a reputable shop yesterday and they're booked until November! I have a call into another one - skilled labor is hard to find these days.
For a 38'er the boat is fairly light (12,000#) and easy to balance, so I planned to mount the Pelagic in the normal way and drive the tiller. Except for one drive, my Pelagic is an early version. Should I buy a new one first?
For a 38'er the boat is fairly light (12,000#) and easy to balance, so I planned to mount the Pelagic in the normal way and drive the tiller. Except for one drive, my Pelagic is an early version. Should I buy a new one first?
Thiings are becoming slightly clearer on the waterfront. Good news from observers at KKMI: SEA WISDOM's rudder is intact and more or less in place having dropped downward approx. 4" There are going to be repairs to the upper bearing mount needed, which is where the steering failure began, possibly from whale strike. Also repairs to the lower bearing area and top of the skeg. Basically, the under deck, upper bearing support broke off and the rudder was held in place almost solely by the rudder tube and dislodged lower bearing.
This is fortunate indeed and attests to the strength of SEA WISDOM. In this circumstance, the lower rudder bearing can become levered out of position and dislodged, causing a leak into the boat. Around the World race boats often have a watertight bulkhead just forward of the rudder shafts to prevent the boat from sinking if a rudder is compromised. Or their rudders are transom mounted and either breakaway or kickup for such eventuality.
There are no obvious marks or damage apparent from whale contact, either on SEA WISDOM's keel or rudder. Hitting a sunfish (mola mola) can also cause loss of steering, and has done so in several Sydney2Hobart. Mola Mola can be as big as 8-10 feet across and weigh a ton.
We look forward to Philpott's video interview with Will Lee, skipper of SEA WISDOM.
This is fortunate indeed and attests to the strength of SEA WISDOM. In this circumstance, the lower rudder bearing can become levered out of position and dislodged, causing a leak into the boat. Around the World race boats often have a watertight bulkhead just forward of the rudder shafts to prevent the boat from sinking if a rudder is compromised. Or their rudders are transom mounted and either breakaway or kickup for such eventuality.
There are no obvious marks or damage apparent from whale contact, either on SEA WISDOM's keel or rudder. Hitting a sunfish (mola mola) can also cause loss of steering, and has done so in several Sydney2Hobart. Mola Mola can be as big as 8-10 feet across and weigh a ton.
We look forward to Philpott's video interview with Will Lee, skipper of SEA WISDOM.
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Update from the LongPac RC:
After getting some rest, Dan Willey on GALAXSEA studied his chart plotter and concluded that he mistakenly turned early, short of the 126 deg 40 min mark. Kudos to him for taking the self-reporting seriously and withdrawing from the race.
We are re-scoring the remaining finishers and will be posting the results on Jibeset as soon as possible. We will post the results here as well. More drama and excitement!
Tom
After getting some rest, Dan Willey on GALAXSEA studied his chart plotter and concluded that he mistakenly turned early, short of the 126 deg 40 min mark. Kudos to him for taking the self-reporting seriously and withdrawing from the race.
We are re-scoring the remaining finishers and will be posting the results on Jibeset as soon as possible. We will post the results here as well. More drama and excitement!
Tom
WBChristie
New member
Re: autopilot “worn out”.. unless it’s leaking oil from the cylinder, it probably just the brushes that need replaced. Those do wear out, but it’s not a good reason to toss the whole thing, unless of course it’s the shotgun approach! Sometimes worth it for peace of mind.
Congrats to all for making it back safely
Congrats to all for making it back safely