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Qualifying Cruise
- Thread starter BobJ
- Start date
jfoster
New member
Phil MacFarlane
New member
This is a post I made on another website during the Long Pac. I stand by it and my point is being proven here.
I remember a tag along on one of my trans pacs and I didn't treat him any different than anyone else. I enjoyed talking with him on the VHF when close enough and I didn't think of him as a free loader. I enjoyed having a beer at the tree with him, and I really enjoyed the trip back to America with him.
It is a fact that this race has become more expensive and more difficult to qualify for. I own an expensive radio that I never use because someone got dehydrated. I still don't understand how my having to buy a radio and check in would stop me from being dehydrated.
In all my racing with the SSS I never questioned the rules. I accepted them because I wanted to play. With the addition of MORE RULES EVERY TRANS PAC my guess is it will have an effect on participation.
Below is the post from the other site.
Since the subject has been brought up, I’ll put my two cents in.
I like watching the tracking but a don’t want to use one when I go again.
It seems that every SSS Trans Pac has more rules and requirements than the last one.
Rules like laws never go away. More just get added. It’s almost like every race committee has to make up some new rules and or requirements to leave their mark on the race.
Yes the Coast Guard loves it and I see that as totally big brother. That really bothers me.
I’m not sure if I will enter another trans pac or just tag along, with out all the rules and check ins and hauling my empty cans that held my chili and so on.
More and more control and less and less freedom. What are we doing to our self’s.
Phil MacFarlane
Sail a Vie #184
I remember a tag along on one of my trans pacs and I didn't treat him any different than anyone else. I enjoyed talking with him on the VHF when close enough and I didn't think of him as a free loader. I enjoyed having a beer at the tree with him, and I really enjoyed the trip back to America with him.
It is a fact that this race has become more expensive and more difficult to qualify for. I own an expensive radio that I never use because someone got dehydrated. I still don't understand how my having to buy a radio and check in would stop me from being dehydrated.
In all my racing with the SSS I never questioned the rules. I accepted them because I wanted to play. With the addition of MORE RULES EVERY TRANS PAC my guess is it will have an effect on participation.
Below is the post from the other site.
Since the subject has been brought up, I’ll put my two cents in.
I like watching the tracking but a don’t want to use one when I go again.
It seems that every SSS Trans Pac has more rules and requirements than the last one.
Rules like laws never go away. More just get added. It’s almost like every race committee has to make up some new rules and or requirements to leave their mark on the race.
Yes the Coast Guard loves it and I see that as totally big brother. That really bothers me.
I’m not sure if I will enter another trans pac or just tag along, with out all the rules and check ins and hauling my empty cans that held my chili and so on.
More and more control and less and less freedom. What are we doing to our self’s.
Phil MacFarlane
Sail a Vie #184
John Hayward
New member
Hi All,
Thanks to Bill for a great reply and synopsis of the situation. Well done!!! Having said that, I also hear Phil about more and more rules which generally translates to more and more expense. When I was preparing last year, it rather bothered me to have to buy an MRUD system (~$1400) for my boat since if the skeg hung rudder comes off, I will be far more concerned about the hole in the hull and the water rushing in. I started to inquire about getting an "exemption" and quickly found out it wouldn't happen, so I have an MRUD and I just looked at it as part of the entry fee. I would ask all the racers to enquire about changes at this stage, but once the rules for this race are in place, let's just accept them be they equipment or currency or whatever. If you find them too onerous, then go on your own. I honestly believe that each race committee is looking at new technology or lessons learned in other races and walking a very fine line between safety and too many rules and too much expense. I believe the race will continue to get more expensive but I don't see a way around it. Reasonably avoidable loss of life (or even boats) is unacceptable. If I am comm boat, I will not refuse to talk to anybody out there after the checkins and if I hear of a boat in distress, I will certainly go and help whether they are a tag along or just another boat on the ocean in distress. I will not demand a resume to determine if the distress was avoidable. I *would* be unhappy if this caused me to miss my finish since the tree is a large part of the race festivities, but there would be no hesitation in my response.
Boating is an expensive hobby inherently, but to cross an ocean in safety things that can be ignored on the bay will quite possibly kill you out there. New technology makes it safer but also more expensive. The safest boat 20 years ago doesn't compare to the safest boat today. I personally think the race is more about preparing you and your boat to spend two weeks alone in safety and reasonable comfort than it is about sailing skills. We sail the slot, we know about wind.
My thoughts, worth what you paid for them.
John
Dream Chaser
Thanks to Bill for a great reply and synopsis of the situation. Well done!!! Having said that, I also hear Phil about more and more rules which generally translates to more and more expense. When I was preparing last year, it rather bothered me to have to buy an MRUD system (~$1400) for my boat since if the skeg hung rudder comes off, I will be far more concerned about the hole in the hull and the water rushing in. I started to inquire about getting an "exemption" and quickly found out it wouldn't happen, so I have an MRUD and I just looked at it as part of the entry fee. I would ask all the racers to enquire about changes at this stage, but once the rules for this race are in place, let's just accept them be they equipment or currency or whatever. If you find them too onerous, then go on your own. I honestly believe that each race committee is looking at new technology or lessons learned in other races and walking a very fine line between safety and too many rules and too much expense. I believe the race will continue to get more expensive but I don't see a way around it. Reasonably avoidable loss of life (or even boats) is unacceptable. If I am comm boat, I will not refuse to talk to anybody out there after the checkins and if I hear of a boat in distress, I will certainly go and help whether they are a tag along or just another boat on the ocean in distress. I will not demand a resume to determine if the distress was avoidable. I *would* be unhappy if this caused me to miss my finish since the tree is a large part of the race festivities, but there would be no hesitation in my response.
Boating is an expensive hobby inherently, but to cross an ocean in safety things that can be ignored on the bay will quite possibly kill you out there. New technology makes it safer but also more expensive. The safest boat 20 years ago doesn't compare to the safest boat today. I personally think the race is more about preparing you and your boat to spend two weeks alone in safety and reasonable comfort than it is about sailing skills. We sail the slot, we know about wind.
My thoughts, worth what you paid for them.
John
Dream Chaser
Now we're getting somewhere. It was worth saying something close to controversial just to hear from Sail-La-Vie. The only Tag Alongs I object to would be the ones that choose do it to spite the race committee. Someone who doesn't have the bucks for required equipment joining the fun - fine with me. Someone who just happens to stumble on the radio check-in and wants to join - fine with me. I'm fine with just about anyone tagging along as long as the tagging along isn't a political statement.
Hi Phil, I got close to selling Ergo then I re-discovered what a great ocean boat she is on the LP.
The race committee is currently wrestling with the rules again and for what it's worth, we are trying to shrink/simplify them.
Bill Merrick
Hi Phil, I got close to selling Ergo then I re-discovered what a great ocean boat she is on the LP.
The race committee is currently wrestling with the rules again and for what it's worth, we are trying to shrink/simplify them.
Bill Merrick
Hi John,
Did I hear you volunteering for comm boat duties? I'll let Bob & Rob know right away. Thank you.
As I recall I was the bearer of the bad news about the emergency rudder. Thank you for accepting it so gracefully. I'd point out to those not sailing big boats or pocket rockets that you'd better think in terms of at least two weeks getting to Hanalei.
Bill Merrick
Did I hear you volunteering for comm boat duties? I'll let Bob & Rob know right away. Thank you.
As I recall I was the bearer of the bad news about the emergency rudder. Thank you for accepting it so gracefully. I'd point out to those not sailing big boats or pocket rockets that you'd better think in terms of at least two weeks getting to Hanalei.
Bill Merrick
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
That sounds to me like an offer. But no whanging your head on the whisker pole this time, okay John?
Phil, I was also concerned about "regulation creep" so I printed out the rules from the 2002 race and compared them rule-by-rule to 2008's. The only major new requirement over those years was storm sails, and I'll suggest that looked like a wise addition during the 2004 race. (I posted this same comment in another thread but now I can't find it.)
Maybe one of you could do the same comparison and see if I missed anything major.
I hope to do the race again (2012?) so I'm on your side with this stuff. I also have no compelling desire to add my personal "stamp" to the race rules. There are a couple of things I'm concerned about from 2008 though, and a couple of things I hope to remove.
I'm getting some good input from the committee members and have reversed course on a couple of things. I admit it's not an entirely democratic process but it appears to be yielding a good review of the rules.
Hang in there folks - we'll have this done so we can go through them at the seminar on the 21st.
Phil, I was also concerned about "regulation creep" so I printed out the rules from the 2002 race and compared them rule-by-rule to 2008's. The only major new requirement over those years was storm sails, and I'll suggest that looked like a wise addition during the 2004 race. (I posted this same comment in another thread but now I can't find it.)
Maybe one of you could do the same comparison and see if I missed anything major.
I hope to do the race again (2012?) so I'm on your side with this stuff. I also have no compelling desire to add my personal "stamp" to the race rules. There are a couple of things I'm concerned about from 2008 though, and a couple of things I hope to remove.
I'm getting some good input from the committee members and have reversed course on a couple of things. I admit it's not an entirely democratic process but it appears to be yielding a good review of the rules.
Hang in there folks - we'll have this done so we can go through them at the seminar on the 21st.
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A lot of this discussion is waaaay over my head (see quotes from dead non-sailors for an example) but it seems to me that proof you have been sailing sometime in the last few years is not a onerous one.
I'm not referring to dicking about for an afternoon where the biggest worry is keeping your sandwiches dry and not getting sun-burnt - but keeping your hand in by sailing, by youself, off soundings for at least a few days.
There are always some rules that may not make a lot of sense, or have little to do with sailing (like the famous 'garbage' rule of '08) but sometimes you just have to 'go along to get along' Or, you can just sail to Hawaii by yourself......kind of fun being part of the SHTP however - and it provides a somewhat structured venue for people for whom it is their first solo ocean passage. Sort of an 'I'll-hold-your-hand-while-you-get-ready' kind of experience
As an aside - how many skippers used a previous SHTP (or any other organized event) as their 'first' offshore experience ??? Or more interestingly, how many haven't?????
A small kick at the (never-ending) SSB/satphone controversy - it was my understanding that is was instituted for the first time for the '02 race. Current thinking, at the time, was to provide a method for skippers to communicate on-the-course, in the hope that keeping them in touch twice a day with each other might prevent a repeat of the Space Cowboy event.
I admit that you can dial up anyone you wish ashore on a satphone for a chat - but the chance of them being able to relate to the actual experince you are having out there, as opposed to sharing your grief and misery with another race participant - who just blew up his spinnaker and found half his drinking water had leaked into the bilge.....are slim.....Shit!!! - Here comes another squall, gotta go reef!!!
Jim/Haulback
I'm not referring to dicking about for an afternoon where the biggest worry is keeping your sandwiches dry and not getting sun-burnt - but keeping your hand in by sailing, by youself, off soundings for at least a few days.
There are always some rules that may not make a lot of sense, or have little to do with sailing (like the famous 'garbage' rule of '08) but sometimes you just have to 'go along to get along' Or, you can just sail to Hawaii by yourself......kind of fun being part of the SHTP however - and it provides a somewhat structured venue for people for whom it is their first solo ocean passage. Sort of an 'I'll-hold-your-hand-while-you-get-ready' kind of experience
As an aside - how many skippers used a previous SHTP (or any other organized event) as their 'first' offshore experience ??? Or more interestingly, how many haven't?????
A small kick at the (never-ending) SSB/satphone controversy - it was my understanding that is was instituted for the first time for the '02 race. Current thinking, at the time, was to provide a method for skippers to communicate on-the-course, in the hope that keeping them in touch twice a day with each other might prevent a repeat of the Space Cowboy event.
I admit that you can dial up anyone you wish ashore on a satphone for a chat - but the chance of them being able to relate to the actual experince you are having out there, as opposed to sharing your grief and misery with another race participant - who just blew up his spinnaker and found half his drinking water had leaked into the bilge.....are slim.....Shit!!! - Here comes another squall, gotta go reef!!!
Jim/Haulback
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John Hayward
New member
Bob and Bill,
We will think about being the Comm Boat again?? First of all, I have to do a new HF radio installation as my radio died on the way home last year. I sent it to Icom and they said they fixed it and sent it back. It failed again within 24 hours. I sent it back again and they said they couldn't duplicate the problem. Knowing it would fail again, probably in the middle of the ocean, I gave it to a friend for a land based base station. Sooo am going to do an entirely new installation. I hope to have this ready for HF email, weather fax, Grib and even voice comm but don't want to volunteer until it is done and checked out. Also, being comm boat took more time than I had expected and since I am actually planning to "race" from the git go this time I will have to think about that aspect.
We can see how things go as the time gets nearer.
John
Dream Chaser
Bob - Glen Hansen is taking care of re-rigging the whisker pole and car and track so I won't have to wear a football helmet this time.
We will think about being the Comm Boat again?? First of all, I have to do a new HF radio installation as my radio died on the way home last year. I sent it to Icom and they said they fixed it and sent it back. It failed again within 24 hours. I sent it back again and they said they couldn't duplicate the problem. Knowing it would fail again, probably in the middle of the ocean, I gave it to a friend for a land based base station. Sooo am going to do an entirely new installation. I hope to have this ready for HF email, weather fax, Grib and even voice comm but don't want to volunteer until it is done and checked out. Also, being comm boat took more time than I had expected and since I am actually planning to "race" from the git go this time I will have to think about that aspect.
We can see how things go as the time gets nearer.
John
Dream Chaser
Bob - Glen Hansen is taking care of re-rigging the whisker pole and car and track so I won't have to wear a football helmet this time.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Thanks Lou!
Ya know, disconnecting your autopilot from your SSB was a good idea - I'll bet both units work better. Maybe that's why your autopilot sounded like it was speaking Chinese.
(Kidding of course - I remember what you went through in '06 with the RFI from the SSB messing with your AP when on 8 band.)
Ya know, disconnecting your autopilot from your SSB was a good idea - I'll bet both units work better. Maybe that's why your autopilot sounded like it was speaking Chinese.
(Kidding of course - I remember what you went through in '06 with the RFI from the SSB messing with your AP when on 8 band.)