solosailor
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What he said +1
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Safety at Sea Seminar
- Thread starter Phil MacFarlane
- Start date
Phil MacFarlane
New member
me 2 + 1
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
SSS put together a 4 hour class last year and had a lot of participants, in fact it essentially sold out. They are a pretty big logistical item to set up plus you have to "hire" the approved instructors. There was an assumption, given the 5 year lifetime, that virtually all would have been able to attend one of these in the last 3 years. Also, it was stated by YRA that YRA, and US Sailing, and NCORC, were going to construct an online course. That seems to have fallen into oblivion. Maybe we, as the SSS, should go the route of BAMA. They have a required reading list, most of which is likely already read by those reading any of this thread. I find their approach adequate. Bob N. has even done a bit of monitoring of site activity and knows that at least folks are hitting up the articles now and then. So, lets consider taking BAMA's efforts and declaring them, "or equivalent". That clears up the problems.
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
Phil,
Consider the ZYC challenge as an ocean target race. Destination to be announced. It is un associated with anything except the start line, between the USCG pier and Blackaller. One only need to show up at the start time. Trophies are passed out at an undisclosed bar/grill somewhere along the San Francisco water front and tend to come from a collection of previous years trophies, donated by participants. Compliance with USCG rules are of course in order.
Brian
Consider the ZYC challenge as an ocean target race. Destination to be announced. It is un associated with anything except the start line, between the USCG pier and Blackaller. One only need to show up at the start time. Trophies are passed out at an undisclosed bar/grill somewhere along the San Francisco water front and tend to come from a collection of previous years trophies, donated by participants. Compliance with USCG rules are of course in order.
Brian
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
It appears an online version of the course is nearing completion. I just spoke to Chuck Hawley. It sounds as if major sections are complete. Will it be ready in time for SHTP Farallon's ? yet to be determined. If I find out more I will post it here. I suspect this will be a US Sailing online set up of some type.
Brian
Brian
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
The Half-Day Coastal SAS seminar is confirmed for Saturday, April 9th at 0900. It will probably appear on their seminar page at some point. Links to other show information are at the top:
http://strictlysailpacific.com/seminars/
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
From the SSS "About" page:
Mission
The Singlehanded Sailing Society was conceived to provide a forum where sailors and others interested in the sport of singlehanded sailing could share their ideas and experiences. It is the intent of the SSS to make it possible for such sailors to compete in seaworthy sailing vessels of various types and designs on a fair and equitable basis. The purpose of the races is to provide an organized arena in which ideas, equipment, designs, and vessels specifically created, built, modified, or equipped for long distance singlehanded racing may be tested and evaluated through friendly sportsmanlike competition. The development of personal skill in singlehanded sailing is encouraged through sailing events and seminars.
"Once this equipment is tested and evaluated, and personal skill is developed, refer to the USSER for the equipment and training you're actually required to have."
Oh wait - it DOESN'T say that.
.
Mission
The Singlehanded Sailing Society was conceived to provide a forum where sailors and others interested in the sport of singlehanded sailing could share their ideas and experiences. It is the intent of the SSS to make it possible for such sailors to compete in seaworthy sailing vessels of various types and designs on a fair and equitable basis. The purpose of the races is to provide an organized arena in which ideas, equipment, designs, and vessels specifically created, built, modified, or equipped for long distance singlehanded racing may be tested and evaluated through friendly sportsmanlike competition. The development of personal skill in singlehanded sailing is encouraged through sailing events and seminars.
"Once this equipment is tested and evaluated, and personal skill is developed, refer to the USSER for the equipment and training you're actually required to have."
Oh wait - it DOESN'T say that.
.
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I had previously asked the question about the school course vis a vis requiring a substantial "qualifier". Are there any races that require both? The SHTP is the only one that I know of. Then Bob pointed out that the Farallons race was a "qualifier" for the Long Pac. Why would that race require a qualifier? I can qualify for the SHTP without a LongPac.... Seems as if we're getting all wound up. Not that I should care since I've done my last SSS race. The continual progression of pre=race requirements is very interesting to me tho. Sort of mirrors the situation where our government gets bigger and bigger in the unending search for solutions to problems, real or imagined. Pretty soon the pre-race requirements may become more difficult that the race itself.....????
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Ken, the SHTP hasn't changed that much. Most of the changes have been for our local coastal races. This is the first time a Safety-at-Sea class has been required for the SHTP - my feelings about that have been expressed above (it's silly).
However the SHTP has required a 400-mile qualifier for as long as I can remember (which is not as long as you can remember). You haven't had to do a qualifier because the SHTP itself is a qualifier for the next SHTP, and you keep coming back. I've done R/C a couple times (and the Pacific Cup) since my last SHTP so now I have to do a qualifier.
Regarding the pre-race requirements becoming more difficult than the race - many of us believe the LongPac (or equivalent qualifying sail) is harder than the SHTP in some years.
However the SHTP has required a 400-mile qualifier for as long as I can remember (which is not as long as you can remember). You haven't had to do a qualifier because the SHTP itself is a qualifier for the next SHTP, and you keep coming back. I've done R/C a couple times (and the Pacific Cup) since my last SHTP so now I have to do a qualifier.
Regarding the pre-race requirements becoming more difficult than the race - many of us believe the LongPac (or equivalent qualifying sail) is harder than the SHTP in some years.
pogen
Sailing canoe "Kūʻaupaʻa"
An online version , with some checking included , would be a very good alternative.
I understand and appreciate all the criticism on this thread , but it is coming from the point of view of very experienced, high-skill sailors. Of course you would all be fine without a class or credential. But think of it from the point of view of newbies, or people who responsible running a race that includes newbies.
We have definitely had instances in the SHTP of seriously under-prepared boats and skippers, and it was tough on them and does not reflect well on the event as a whole.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
I've thought about that David. We were all newbies once, and I'm only one dumb mistake away from feeling like one every time I go out.
Education has always been a cornerstone of SSS's purpose and program, and much of its training is specific to shorthanding. Most of it takes place in the SHTP seminars but it used to happen at skippers and awards meetings too. If we outsource this to SAS, we force newbies to take courses that are only partially relevant. But most important, SSS gradually loses its ability to do its own training.
It's the same issue with the equipment requirements. We used to have a body of members who wrestled through the requirements periodically, keeping them relevant and up-to-date and questioning the need for each item. It kept us sharp and informed - it was another cornerstone of the SSS. If we outsource our requirements to US Sailing, we've lost that cornerstone. Before long we're just another club that runs races.
SSS was respected and provided leadership to the entire racing community. I'd hate to see us lose that position by giving in and following the herd. What they're doing is NOT better, it's just easier.
Education has always been a cornerstone of SSS's purpose and program, and much of its training is specific to shorthanding. Most of it takes place in the SHTP seminars but it used to happen at skippers and awards meetings too. If we outsource this to SAS, we force newbies to take courses that are only partially relevant. But most important, SSS gradually loses its ability to do its own training.
It's the same issue with the equipment requirements. We used to have a body of members who wrestled through the requirements periodically, keeping them relevant and up-to-date and questioning the need for each item. It kept us sharp and informed - it was another cornerstone of the SSS. If we outsource our requirements to US Sailing, we've lost that cornerstone. Before long we're just another club that runs races.
SSS was respected and provided leadership to the entire racing community. I'd hate to see us lose that position by giving in and following the herd. What they're doing is NOT better, it's just easier.
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
"Was respected " ?
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
I haven't heard anything positive (or negative) in the last 3-4 years, have you?
I am interested in hearing whether anyone agrees with me or even gives a crap. If not, we'll let US Sailing dictate what equipment we carry and SAS can be our skipper training. I'll stop caring about where SSS is headed and folks won't have to read my posts about this stuff.
I am interested in hearing whether anyone agrees with me or even gives a crap. If not, we'll let US Sailing dictate what equipment we carry and SAS can be our skipper training. I'll stop caring about where SSS is headed and folks won't have to read my posts about this stuff.
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
I tossed the question out there because I am not sure what you mean. Why not outline what equipment changes you would like to see ? I think that is your #1 concern ? Or SAS requirements ? How should that change ? I have suggested something, no apparent takers. THere have been extensive reviews of requirements for the offshore races by SSS. The consensus opinion is adopted in what has emerged as the rules. A variety of differing view points emerged in several cases, but the majority opinion was used to arrive at a decision. EX: I question the need for DSC handhelds when we all carry EPIRBs. As far as following the USSailing outline of rules, which is similar to ISAF, I find it makes it easier to sail in both OYRA and SSS as the lists are super easy to correlate.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Equipment changes: I'd like us to go back to our own, shorthanded-specific requirements as we had before NorCalORC. USSER can require what it wants for crewed racing (it IS better than the ISAF OSR's for crewed racing), but we engage our own members in the process and continue to learn by maintaining our own rules.
SAS requirements: Any of us can always attend an SAS class. I'm hoping to go again this year not because I have to, but so I can see if the class is more relevant than the Pacific Cup group hug which was the SAS seminar I last attended in 2010. Again, instead of requiring someone else's generic class, we get back to educating our members in shorthanded-specific safety requirements and techniques. It makes our club stronger.
Otherwise we're just running races and not providing leadership to the sailing community.
SAS requirements: Any of us can always attend an SAS class. I'm hoping to go again this year not because I have to, but so I can see if the class is more relevant than the Pacific Cup group hug which was the SAS seminar I last attended in 2010. Again, instead of requiring someone else's generic class, we get back to educating our members in shorthanded-specific safety requirements and techniques. It makes our club stronger.
Otherwise we're just running races and not providing leadership to the sailing community.
Phil MacFarlane
New member
Hey guys, I was just asking where I could find some classes. I certainly didn’t mean to come in here after being AWAL for close to a decade and stir up anything.
I have never been one to complain about the rules of a game we play for fun. I have always just tried to comply. Not saying that’s the right way to be but that’s who I am. God bless those of you who are passionate enough to fight it out. That said, I have never been a fan of more rules and requirements but it seems like there always is and always will be more. I was really unhappy when after racing to Kauai in 2000 with only a VHF I had to install an SSB for the next race. Silly to my mind. Still is. But what are you going to do?
From an outsiders’ point of view, because that’s who I am now. The SSS is still my first choice for information and training. You have seen me at every 2016 SHTP seminar so far. And I aint even doing the race! They are just as good as they were when I started attending them in the mid 90’s and as then, I thank all those who are making them possible.
So now we can still attend the great SSS “classes” and we have to take another “parent” class also. I’m really ok with it I’m sure I can learn something there too. It would just be nice if it was easier to do. The online thing sounds good. I probably wont be ready for the Farallones anyway.
But…
Brian, you have suggested two things. To consider the reading BAMA’s required reading list as equivalent. I found those here :
http://www.sfbama.org/2015/DHF/nr.pdf
with links on page four. I will certainly reread these and if that works to get me in the Farallones entry list that’s great.
Then as I said I probably wont be ready by then anyway so you suggested the ZYC race. This sounds like fun. I hope I would not be the only one there though.
Then I guess there’s the chance the online course could be ready soon…
Anyway I’m really looking forward to sailing on Sail a Vie in the Ocean again.
I have never been one to complain about the rules of a game we play for fun. I have always just tried to comply. Not saying that’s the right way to be but that’s who I am. God bless those of you who are passionate enough to fight it out. That said, I have never been a fan of more rules and requirements but it seems like there always is and always will be more. I was really unhappy when after racing to Kauai in 2000 with only a VHF I had to install an SSB for the next race. Silly to my mind. Still is. But what are you going to do?
From an outsiders’ point of view, because that’s who I am now. The SSS is still my first choice for information and training. You have seen me at every 2016 SHTP seminar so far. And I aint even doing the race! They are just as good as they were when I started attending them in the mid 90’s and as then, I thank all those who are making them possible.
So now we can still attend the great SSS “classes” and we have to take another “parent” class also. I’m really ok with it I’m sure I can learn something there too. It would just be nice if it was easier to do. The online thing sounds good. I probably wont be ready for the Farallones anyway.
But…
Brian, you have suggested two things. To consider the reading BAMA’s required reading list as equivalent. I found those here :
http://www.sfbama.org/2015/DHF/nr.pdf
with links on page four. I will certainly reread these and if that works to get me in the Farallones entry list that’s great.
Then as I said I probably wont be ready by then anyway so you suggested the ZYC race. This sounds like fun. I hope I would not be the only one there though.
Then I guess there’s the chance the online course could be ready soon…
Anyway I’m really looking forward to sailing on Sail a Vie in the Ocean again.
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
You won't be alone in the ZYC race. It is the fastest growing race in the Bay area: 2014 had 3 entries, 2015 had 8, if this growth rate keeps up we will surpass the 3BF in less than 10 years. Keep in mind it doesn't really exist.
Daydreamer
SAILOR
As a newbie around here, I became acquainted with the SSS about the time the SAS seminars were becoming required.
I understand it was implemented in response, mainly, to the Low Speed Chase incident.
When I joined SSS, My goals were, and are, to learn more, be safe, race the bay and coastal waters, and eventually do a SHTP.
I accepted the equipment and seminar requirements and proceeded to fulfill them.
I took the half day class at Strictly Sail 2014. The half day class is fairly entry level, teaching the proper way to use a life jacket, harness, tether, VHF/MMSI radio, MOB drills, reading swell and waves.
They covered quite a bit for a half day class, and I have wanted to attend a two day class ever since.
Nothing like hands on training.!
A lot of the required equipment is not geared toward self rescue, but being able to assist someone already in the water.
The equipment is top of the line with features to assist rescuers in locating us, i.e. DSCw/GPS integrated.
I understand many of you have been doing this much longer than I have and your boats are set up for previous races, and, that having to upgrade equipment that is still useful is aggravating.
It is also frustrating to have an outside entity telling you what to do.
From my limited perspective, I want to be as safe as possible, which stems from my training and growing experience, learning to stay out of trouble and stay on the boat. Next is to be of maximum use in assisting in rescue of my fellow racer. This is where more of the equipment comes in. The down side I am beginning to see is that I am running out of room to pack stuff on my vest! and the limited real estate on the back of my boat! I have not found an ideal place to carry my handheld VHF.
Looking at the History page and seeing how the SSS has grown from a grass roots movement to a club that hosts the largest regatta in North America, the TBF, lends me to think we need to be on the cutting edge of safety.
Maybe we should generate our own 2 day hands on class geared around the solo racer's self rescue, ( getting into a liferaft from the water or reboarding a boat) and helping to rescue someone else from the water, solo.
Lets take what the sailing community has given and refine it.
That is how we remain respected as leaders in the racing community.
All that said, I'm sorry this still does not help Phil find a class / solution.
I understand it was implemented in response, mainly, to the Low Speed Chase incident.
When I joined SSS, My goals were, and are, to learn more, be safe, race the bay and coastal waters, and eventually do a SHTP.
I accepted the equipment and seminar requirements and proceeded to fulfill them.
I took the half day class at Strictly Sail 2014. The half day class is fairly entry level, teaching the proper way to use a life jacket, harness, tether, VHF/MMSI radio, MOB drills, reading swell and waves.
They covered quite a bit for a half day class, and I have wanted to attend a two day class ever since.
Nothing like hands on training.!
A lot of the required equipment is not geared toward self rescue, but being able to assist someone already in the water.
The equipment is top of the line with features to assist rescuers in locating us, i.e. DSCw/GPS integrated.
I understand many of you have been doing this much longer than I have and your boats are set up for previous races, and, that having to upgrade equipment that is still useful is aggravating.
It is also frustrating to have an outside entity telling you what to do.
From my limited perspective, I want to be as safe as possible, which stems from my training and growing experience, learning to stay out of trouble and stay on the boat. Next is to be of maximum use in assisting in rescue of my fellow racer. This is where more of the equipment comes in. The down side I am beginning to see is that I am running out of room to pack stuff on my vest! and the limited real estate on the back of my boat! I have not found an ideal place to carry my handheld VHF.
Looking at the History page and seeing how the SSS has grown from a grass roots movement to a club that hosts the largest regatta in North America, the TBF, lends me to think we need to be on the cutting edge of safety.
Maybe we should generate our own 2 day hands on class geared around the solo racer's self rescue, ( getting into a liferaft from the water or reboarding a boat) and helping to rescue someone else from the water, solo.
Lets take what the sailing community has given and refine it.
That is how we remain respected as leaders in the racing community.
All that said, I'm sorry this still does not help Phil find a class / solution.
pogen
Sailing canoe "Kūʻaupaʻa"
I think that we respect ourselves; hopefully that counts. We are well below the radar as far as the worldwide sailing community goes. And that's OK.
I still think that a uniform equipment standard and training requirement is a good thing. Otherwise we will be back in the world of "oh shit, it says I need a 200' anchor rode and I just bought a 180' rode for the last race I did".