Satellite Tracking of AIS signals, can this be a tracker solution ?

[brianb]

Hello SHTP Board:

AIS tracking is now in place with LEO (low earth orbit satellites). This may allow combining the SHTP need from tracking with the requirement for an AIS transponder. Potentially this could lower cost for the boats as they need not rent Yellow Bricks, but would have to include the AIS transponder. I say potentially because the type of transponder may be a full power unit and satellite coverage may not be complete. VesselTracker.com shows coverage throughout the Pacific, so it is worth asking a few questions. There would be a subscription service for the club to access that tracking data. If you see any value in this let me know.

Here is a description from VesselTraffic.com.

What is Satellite AIS ?

Satellite AIS (S-AIS) is an emerging technology designed to detect wide area maritime vessel movements on a global scale. S-AIS extends the range of the existing maritime Automatic Identification System. Where previously, detecting vessels only occurred within a relatively short range from shore, S-AIS allows maritime agencies and commercial organizations to obtain a more complete picture of their Areas (or vessels) of Interest, resulting in an improved ability to identify potential threats, better monitoring of traffic patterns, and a more cost effective use of other assets.
How a Satellite Collects Data ?

Satellite-based AIS is feasible because VHF signals from AIS transponders are able to travel the 400 or so miles into space to reach a low-Earth-orbiting satellite. The satellite receives the signal, and then forwards it to a ground station for processing and storage. From here the information can be delivered in a variety of electronic formats to any number of computer systems and displays.
How we receive the Data from the Satellite ?

A satellite orbits the planet and collects data as it travels, transmitting that data when it is in sight of a compatible earth station (also often referred to as a ground station, antenna or dish). A satellite typically passes within sight of an earth station in 10 minutes. Once data is downlinked from a satellite to an earth station, it is transmitted to the top-tier data processing centre(DPC). The DPC system receives all data downlinked at the earth stations and in only a few minutes, processes the data to extract every possible AIS message. In the next few seconds, you can see the resulting messages(vessel positions) in our systems.

 

[BobJ]

A "solution" gone searching for a problem. How about we see you when we get there?

Pretty soon we'll be singlehanding the way everybody rides Bart or the elevator - with a death grip on our electronic tether of choice.


Problem is, the people who agree with me (and there are plenty) tend to not post on computer forums.

 

[brianb]

Bob,

I don't quite get the point. The USCG now demands we have trackers. So we can all rent a Yellow Brick for $300, or purchase an AIS that is already mandated, at least the receive side, and end up with a system that will meet the future requirements of offshore racing (and you know we are going to be required soon to have full AIS transponders).

As for the value of trackers - I was not a fan of same. However, there were two incidents that convinced me otherwise: 1) Bella Bartok 2) My own crisis when upon leaving Kauai my crew broke two ribs a day away. Upon my return to Kauai, as I approached the Bay, the lifeguards met me with a PWC, and on the beach were Ken, Lee Roper and RUbin, who had arranged the transport of the injured party to shore with the life guards. They knew something was up as I had turned back.

Bottom line AIS my be a complete solution, why spend more $$'s on a tracker from Yellow BRick ?

BB

 

[BobJ]

Brian, I'm not aiming this at you personally. I appreciate your contributions to these electronic and technology subjects, plus I think you're a good sailor and all-around good guy.

But your response shines a bright light on the real problem. In fact NO, the USCG does not demand we have trackers. For ocean races out of San Francisco Bay the CG requires we have EPIRB's - that's it. Nor are AIS transponders required for our race. We have required AIS receivers in the last two SHTP's; in fact I'm the one who conducted a poll on this very forum and based on the results, added the AIS receiver requirement in 2010.

The 2012 SHTP Race Chair decided it might be easier to get the race's event permit if he could tell the CG that trackers were being required. He originally told the racers they would not be required, and there were at least a couple of participants who were none-too-pleased they were required at the last minute. Here it is from the horse's mouth: http://www.sfbaysss.net/showthread.php?891-Tracking-the-race-Discussion&p=5496#post5496

I had no trouble obtaining the 2010 SHTP event permit without requiring trackers.

I don't want to debate the pluses and minuses of trackers - that's not the point of my post. But I don't want to see misinformation spread on this subject. We simply must stop bidding against ourselves on the level of equipment required. The Coast Guard requires an EPIRB and the minimum equipment listed in the CFR's (PFD, fire extinguishers, backfire flame arrestor if a gas engine, etc.) If we up the ante and offer trackers to get the permit, the CG will start requiring trackers. If we offer a Jibeset link to all of your personal information to get a permit (and we do), they will start requiring it.

This just happened to me when getting the permit for HMB. No link? No permit. That has never happened before. I hope Ray Irvine keeps breathing in and out and pays his web hosting bills, because it would be very hard to duplicate what we've been providing the USCG through Jibeset - without them ever having asked for it.

People, I don't wear a tin foil hat - really I don't. This is a real problem.

 

[JimQuanci]

Brian - on a side note - not replying to what I think is a misnomer about what the Coasties will and will not require (I really think they they will ever care whether or not we have AIS... lots of small boats with AIS can be a nuisance due to too many targets) - AIS is not the answer because its dependent on your boat's batteries - which we all know cannot be depended upon. If you want to track, it needs to be reliable - which means standalone (not hooked up to house batteries).

On another side note - I like trackers - mostly because it keeps the home fires warm (ie keeps wife, mother and a few other family members happy - and several more entertained). The added safety is really "bonus points"' (for me).

Last...
This "where is my honey?" thing is getting pretty cheap...
Iridium phone at $1200 to buy - or $500 to rent for 2 months with 2 hours of talk time.
DeLorme (location and text) at $250 to buy - and another $100 or so for a year - with a rumored ability to rent that might take the whole cost down to $100 or so for the whole race and return.

This tracking thing is going the way of paper maps/charts... when you can now purchase a GPS for not much more then the cost of a single paper chart. Never mind the cost of a real sextant.

[Bob - sure you can navigate traditionally to Hawaii with a sextant, Nautical Almanac, HO249, paper and pencil... but folks doing that are getting few and far between... how many SHTP folks don't use a GPS? Though I remember when folks doing races to Hawaii though SatNav and then GPS was "unsportsmanlike". Tracking is going down this same technology path. And frankly it makes the race more accessible to more people.... tracking takes people that dream of going alone but have doubts and gets them "over the hump" and making that decision to "do it". In the end, one can always sail to Hawaii - whether alone or with a crew - any time one wants - without an EPIRB too!. Doing the passage as part of an organized race is inherently and all about sharing the experience with others. Having a small device on a stanchion sure doesn't change the "going alone" experience any for the racer... we lost the feeling of "real independence" when we made EPIRB a requirement. Adding a tracker doesn't make the experience any less "independent" then having an EPIRB. You don't have to tell your family and friends there is a web site they can keep track of you on. ]

At least that's IMO.

 

[BobJ]

Well again, my point is not to debate the pros and cons of tracking. I lost that battle a long time ago. Most of you know where I stand. I think ocean races are forever changed and while I'm okay with it for crewed races, I think it changes the dynamic of a solo race to Hawaii, and not for the better.

"I really (don't) think they will ever care whether or not we have AIS..."

I agree the CG doesn't care about us having AIS transponders, especially given their limited range, but my personal experience in getting event permits this year tells me that if we offer the CG mandatory tracking, they will require it from now on. There will be no going back. If you don't understand why that's a problem, go read some of the great voyagers again.

 

[brianb]

YEs, Bob, "required" may have been the wrong word. It would be nice to get the Race Chair to chime in. I had the distinct opinion that USCG was thought to be of the frame of mind not to issue without a tracker system of some kind.

Brian

 

[brianb]

Jim, I have to disagree with your primary argument. An AIS could easily be placed on a small backup battery that engages when all else has failed, this is trivial and inexpensive.

I suggested this as a means of saving yet another several hundred dollars. I think the Delorme is the cheapest, capable tracker and rings in at $295 plus an annual subscription fee. Why not see if that $300 or so can't be put toward something that is likely going to be mandated in some future season ? 12 boats on the open ocean will not clutter AIS just as 75 boats won't clutter Iridium.

 

[BobJ]

I just read most of the 2012 thread on this subject (linked in my long post above). Whitall Stokes and John Hayward did a better job than I did explaining why some of us don't like the constant tracking in this race. I also had an e-mail exchange with Jim Quanci about the competitive aspects, and how trackers diminish the SHTP as a race.

I ran across this post, making it clear that we're doing this to ourselves - it's not the Coast Guard:

http://www.sfbaysss.net/showthread.php?891-Tracking-the-race-Discussion&p=5539#post5539

 

[brianb]

Bob, a quote from a reader on the Trans Pac Race at PRessure-Drop regarding keeping track of the race on their Yellow Brick Web Page,
"Thanks J - this will be fun to watch. Dare I say, more fun than that local deal going on? This is a great TP fleet! ".


Apparently some key local racers find the tracking function good as a means of watching the event unfold, me included. I just have an issue with the cost of the level of redundancy we carry aboard. In the TP they delayed the reports six hours, seems like 24 would be better.

Jim, some of the systems like Delorme depend on external power so will suffer from the "boat" electricity issue you raised. If we allow a few system types then we can all decide on the largest cost benefit for our boats. I think the Long Pac combined several sources of position data ??

I sent some requests onto the vesseltracker firm asking for costs of using their system. If we have no interest in using AIS I will drop the inquiry.

BB

 

[BobJ]

Brian, right, and of course that was me. In an e-mail to Jim earlier today, I said "as an observer, I like tracking. As an SHTP skipper, I hate it."

When I was SHTP co-chair my mantra was "Everything we do is for the racers - this is their race, their experience." This was partly in response to a prior SHTP chair who once told the racers in no uncertain terms "this is MY race!"

So if the racers get together and agree they want trackers and are willing to pay for them, great. But so far we don't have any racers, and these mandates are being discussed.

 

[tiger beetle]

I'll put in my two or three cents on the discussion of AIS transponders and send-ashore tracking (Delorme Inreach SE, Yellow Brick); they serve two different purposes, and can overlap when an AIS position makes it ashore via a satellite-based AIS receiver.

The AIS transponder is useful to the skipper, the tracker is useful to the race committee and shore-side people.

An AIS transponder is of immediate value to the TransPac competitor as it provides an awareness to shipping traffic that you are in their vicinity. The transponder is expensive - the Vesper WatchMate Vision Class B transponder I recently installed ran $1400 by the time it was all done. The transponder consumes power, though in small amounts. It provides situational awareness to me when sailing in limited visibility of the big shipping around me - and I like that. I've received calls from SF Vessel Traffic service advising me of ships not in the shipping lane that was coming too close for their liking. I've spoken with ships offshore that were pleased that I had a transponder as it helped them to take early action to avoid me.

I'm not at all convinced that an AIS transponder, at the current price point, should be a requirement of the SSS TransPac race. When the bulk of the fleet already has one then it probably should be made a requirement. An AIS receive-only device comes in at a much lower price point and there is a fair bit of value to the skipper, and perhaps a receiver should be a requirement - I'd possibly lean in that direction, though I'd want to know more about the display capabilities for such a receiver.

For purposes of promoting the TransPac a tracker is a super thing when positions are periodically updated on a public-facing race website, along with little tracks and things like that - and contributes nothing to the skipper's race (assuming that fleet tracker positions are not allowed to be relayed back to the fleet). A tracker is a headache for the skippers as they must be configured, installed, powered, protected, fussed over, and shipped back when it's all over. A tracker should not be a requirement of the race unless the race committee is going to supply the tracker at no additional cost to the racer, simply because the tracker does nothing for the skipper and does everything for the race committee. If the cost to enter the race needs to be raised to pay for the tracker, then so be it, but it is not fair to make the skippers pay for tracking when they don't need it and don't benefit from it.

That said, I will be installing a Delorme Inreach SE on board Beetle, specifically to make my parents happy (Mom pointed at that when asked where her kids were, she could provide my lat/lon position!) and Kristen likes that she could utilize the two-way SMS text messaging if necessary. The tracker becomes another tool in the communications kit, which currently includes a hi-gain WiFi antenna, a cellular modem hotspot, an SSB radio and Pactor modem, and the VHF radio (I don't have a sat phone, though I sure thought about adding one to the boat - the cost to operate is so high that I would be likely to avoid using it whenever possible, therefore it's silly for me to have one). I have no personal problem with carrying a tracker as it is makes people happy that are important to me.

The one place that an AIS can behave like a tracker was demonstrated by Nereida's position reporting via ExactEarth's satellite AIS receiver and associated web page - I believe that ExactEarth sponsored this tracking, and it worked out fairly well at picking up her Class B transponder. I have no idea what the cost would be to hire Exact Earth to do this for all boats in the fleet, and I know that cost to equip all boats witih an AIS transponder is significant.

We are in a hyper-connected culture at this time, people seem to be freaked out that someone might not have a cell phone, or might not be reachable by email, or they might not know where someone is - and I find that odd. I find it particularly weird that someone going for a day hike or out camping feels the need to post position plots of where they are in near-real-time. Delorme touts the SOS feature of their unit; I carry an EPIRB and that's a much better built unit than a Delorme for offshore use, I'd rather have that than a Delorme any day of the week. Delorme touts the ability to provide mapping services when using the device with a smart phone - I already have really good, redundant charting systems on the boat, right down to paper charts (egad! - paper, really?). The Delorme, for me, is a relatively inexpensive automatic way to let people not on board know the yacht's position, and that can have value (such as for promoting the SSS race, or making your parents happy).

For the race I would fall back to what we have done in the past - share positions between skippers via an SSB radio roll call (this has value to the skippers, they know where the other boats are and get to talk through problems if they choose to), and race committee provides trackers if race committee is willing to pay for the trackers. If trackers are too expensive, then forego trackers.

- rob/beetle

 

[tiger beetle]

As an SHTP skipper, I hate it."

Hi Bob -

Why do you actively dislike a tracker when you're on the TransPac? The little box sitting on the stern pulpit doesn't bother me, it just sits there and I don't even think about it (unless I'm worried that it is going to fall off into the water - then I wish I didn't have to worry about it). If there are winky lights and such that are distracting, wrap it in tape to make the transponder into an inert box, hopefully sitting there next to the fishing line skipping behind the boat.

- rob/beetle

 

[BobJ]

"I liked to sail alone. The sea was the same as a girl to me - I did not want anyone else along." - E.B. White

 

[JAMcDonald]

Just a quick comment from someone who has a class B AIS transponder (and obligatory radar reflectors). It was a great relief to me when I was spotted via AIS (and presumably radar but didn't inquire) when crossing the outbound shipping lane in dense fog and almost no wind on a collision course with a fast moving container ship. I was able to call the bridge via MMSI and the skipper altered course & speed. I had little ability to alter course, as I would have had to deploy my outboard. This is not a comment on tracking; but my wife was relieved to follow our progress during the Long Pac via the twice daily position reports. If AIS would work, seems like a reasonable solution. My transponder uses a splitter and the masthead VHF antenna (NOT to start another electronic controversy!).

 

[brianb]

I'm not at all convinced that an AIS transponder, at the current price point, should be a requirement of the SSS TransPac race. When the bulk of the fleet already has one then it probably should be made a requirement. An AIS receive-only device comes in at a much lower price point and there is a fair bit of value to the skipper, and perhaps a receiver should be a requirement - I'd possibly lean in that direction, though I'd want to know more about the display capabilities for such a receiver.

>> I would agree, at $1400 it should not be a requirement for SSS or OYRA, but there are units down to $599. Rather than a requirement maybe SSS could accommodate two position reporting systems ? Assuming they become a requirement at all.


The one place that an AIS can behave like a tracker was demonstrated by Nereida's position reporting via ExactEarth's satellite AIS receiver and associated web page - I believe that ExactEarth sponsored this tracking, and it worked out fairly well at picking up her Class B transponder. I have no idea what the cost would be to hire Exact Earth to do this for all boats in the fleet, and I know that cost to equip all boats witih an AIS transponder is significant.

>>> This was precisely my point. If you have AIS it can be used for tracking out to Hawaii. There are at least two firms supporting AIS LEO Sat. tracking. Orbcomm is launching a 17 satellite galaxy and expect to have full coverage in 2013. Several sats are up. I have contacted them and VesselTracker to see what costs would be for fleet tracking. They can filter the data stream by MMSI number so the data stream received is only vessels of interest.


For the race I would fall back to what we have done in the past - share positions between skippers via an SSB radio roll call (this has value to the skippers, they know where the other boats are and get to talk through problems if they choose to), and race committee provides trackers if race committee is willing to pay for the trackers. If trackers are too expensive, then forego trackers.

>> in the past the RC had contestants pay, as I recall about $300 or so.

- rob/beetle

See response embedded. >>

BB

 

[Mewes]

Boy, I'm late to this party! Though I can't say I haven't been having the dscussions.

Bob, Mr Wonderful ... And others want to bring back the VHF arrival announcement of the earlier races.

Our 2006 race was magically posted online, often with fish reports, meal reports, macramé and so forth for all to see whenever. I think Rich Ray and maybe Greg Nelsen did a bunch of it. But I was sinking under the day-to-day operations. (Apologies to those who created the magic.)

That was well before trackers had any reliability, and it was handled through the Communications Boats. And SSB. Cell phones and sat phones did the trick.

That race had a once every 36 hour required check in, that resulted in a penalty.

If I could have the same communications and position reporting this year....with some eager "on the water contributors" posting log reports, I'd really prefer that.

Families stayed connected with the race as did the rest of a world wide audience.

 

[Submarino]

Less communications technology the better. The SHTP, like local ocean regattas, seems to be a diminishing experience as society feels the need to be secure & wired. Every few years that go by, it feels like an important layer that makes up the thrill/experience/challenge is shaved away from ocean racing.

I hope the SHTP does not become like the "Himalaya" tourist climb.

 

[pbryant]

The short answer is "no, tracking vessels with Class B AIS via satellite is not yet reliable or feasible". AIS was intended for line-of-sight propagation within a short range ad hoc time-sharing network. While transmitters can and are being received by satellite, at the altitude of even low-earth-orbit sats, the Class B transmitters are very difficult to discern in the cacophony of Class A transmitters. Reception of Class B transmitters via satellite is at best intermittent.

A way to describe the reception challenge is imagine a noisy party in a crowded room. If you stand near a few people speaking, you can follow the conversations. But for a satellite, the situation of receiving a Class B AIS transmitter is analogous trying to follow the conversation of one person whispering in that room using a microphone mounted at the room's ceiling. You'd only hear them during rare moments of silence. You can read more about the challenges here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Identification_System#S-AIS.

I personally feel that some of the more general arguments I see in this thread against using technology aboard vessels is specious: unless there are adherents who are using only sextants and mechanical clocks (even that is "technology") for navigation, then they are only arguing issues of degree and personal taste. We no longer sail seas where sighting another vessel - and the risk of collision - is exceedingly rare, and assuming we are mere mortals who actually sleep while underway, then AIS with an automatic alarm is a way of keeping a "continuous (electronic) watch" as required by prudence, good seamanship, and the navigation rules. It helps to alleviate the (somewhat deserved, IMO) impression that racers are a bunch of dangerous hyper-competitive loose canons out on the water who pose a general hazard to navigation.

 

[BobJ]

Those are two entirely different things. As you suggest, I use a receive-only AIS with alarm to alert me to approaching ships.

Having hundreds of people following my every move from their desk at home is what removes a great deal of the adventure from the SHTP experience. Unless they're more honest than most, it also removes a measure of the competitiveness from the race.

Those who compare not having trackers to going back to sextants and Bowditch are greatly distorting the point.


I also notice that so far, one planned SHTP competitor has weighed in on the subject and he agrees with me.