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Satellite Tracking of AIS signals, can this be a tracker solution ?

I agree that allowing the entire planet to track a vessel's progress is a little creepy, though ever since the invention of radiotelegraph long distance racers have been reporting in with their positions, and those positions were then printed in newspaper articles. I suppose it's the immediacy of technology that causes concern.

I'm not drawing any comparisons with trackers and sextants, which I agree are two separate topics. I am only observing that resistance to modern navigation and safety technologies is a matter of personal taste - not philosophical defensibly. It's like arguing that "blue" is better than "orange." I personally believe it's best to be skilled at both modern and ancient methods. I have GPS and a sextant/almanac/accurate clock aboard. Since I work in a related field of technology, I am probably the last person to defend the invulnerability of GPS. It can and has failed. As long as the Earth's magnetic field doesn't significantly change (not apt to happen soon) and the Earth stays in it's current orbit, there's nothing more reliable than a good compass and the position of the objects I can sight in the sky. Beyond sight of land, I want backups to anything that depends on electronics. For reliability: use a sextant. For accuracy: use GPS.

As far back as 1968, when nine sailors set off on the first single-handed circumnavigation of the globe nonstop, those competitors closely followed one another’s progress from radioed position reports. From those reports, they developed a deep bond with their fellow competitors. I don’t feel that knowing another sailor’s progress reduces competitiveness, but instead enhances comradery. But that may illustrate a deeper difference in our outlooks: When I sail, I feel I am competing only with myself and my ability to interpret nature’s challenges.
 
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You should enter the race and among other things, compete for the Navigator's Trophy. It sounds like you could win it.

Not taking anything away from your posts here, but we've found that discussing these topics with those who have not done the race is rarely fruitful. Like the Infiniti commercials: (Race the SHTP once) "and you'll understand." Way back in the archives you can find me railing against SSB's. They are no longer required BTW, but now that I've done the race a couple of times I realize how much an SSB adds to the overall experience.
 
What does Jackie think? Given the sensible and reasonable safety requirements already in place, the yellow brick represents a costly and unnecessary addition to the requirements (as entertaining and/or reassuring it may be for family and friends). If people want their families and friends to see them offshore, perhaps they can go-pro themselves and upload the video via Sat Phone. As far as I can tell, that is essentially what the yellow brick offers, given the safety requirements already in place. Currently each boat is required to have a vhf radio with masthead coaxial, a handheld radio with gps capacity, a liferaft, SSB or satphone and an epirb. The yellow brick should be an optional piece of equipment rather than mandatory unless someone can prove that it is necessary for the safety of the sailor (rather than his/her boat). I don't see what additional safety quality it offers the sailor, and that should be the point of mandatory regulation. Was Dirk happy to get his boat back? Sure. Did the yellowbrick notify the authorities? No. Not to belabor the point, but wouldn't he have been better off heeding the advise of Dr Weaver and had antiobiotics on hand?

Another detail is that, @ a recent board meeting it was suggested that the yellow brick had a more expensive overall price tag than $300/boat. We should certainly know what the true expense of it is before we even consider making it mandatory for any race.
 
For those who want tracking, the Delorme products cost about $300, use the same Iridium satellite constellation as the Yellowbrick, and have the ability to send and receive text messages. You can also pair them with a smartphone via Bluetooth, or use the InReach SE model standalone. http://www.inreachdelorme.com/product-info/inreachse.php. They claim the product is immersible, though I haven't tested that claim.

I have the InReach SE on my boat (I don't trust smartphones around sea water) and both the tracking and messaging have so far worked flawlessly. I bought it at REI. I have it attached to an interior bulkhead where it locks up GPS and transmits just fine through the cabin roof fiberglass.

The downside is: they only run continuously for about 4 days without a recharge. I use a USB charger to keep mine continually recharged. I built the 5 volt regulator for the charger using a switching-mode regulator because it saves about 3 watts over using an ordinary analog off-the-shelf 12 volt automotive USB charger. If you don't care about saving 3 watts, you can use any USB charger. Yes, if my vessels loses all electrical the beacon will stop after 4 days (after the week it would take for my 500 A/H of batteries to go dead). By then, something really bad has happened since I have ample PV power generation and in such extremes I'll have probably set off the EPIRB anyway.

There are monthly usage charges.
 
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BobJ said:
You should enter the race and among other things, compete for the Navigator's Trophy. It sounds like you could win it.

Not taking anything away from your posts here, but we've found that discussing these topics with those who have not done the race is rarely fruitful. Like the Infiniti commercials: (Race the SHTP once) "and you'll understand." Way back in the archives you can find me railing against SSB's. They are no longer required BTW, but now that I've done the race a couple of times I realize how much an SSB adds to the overall experience.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bob. I may do just that. All my long distance sailing single handed thus far has been in the gales of the Baltic and scraping ice off the deck in the environs of the Stockholm archipelago (burrrrr!). It'd be nice to have a warm and relaxing sail to Hawaii. Now if I can only find lifeline stanchions that don't force me to poke holes in my cabin deck....

As a long time Ham, I don't know what I'd do without SSB on board. After a few days of solitude, I either call out a CQ or start talking to a volleyball named Wilson.
 
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pbryant said:
I have the InReach SE on my boat (I don't trust smartphones around sea water) and both the tracking and messaging have so far worked flawlessly. I bought it at REI. I have it attached to an interior bulkhead where it locks up GPS and transmits just fine through the cabin roof fiberglass.

The downside is: they only run continuously for about 4 days without a recharge. I use a USB charger to keep mine continually recharged. I built the 5 volt regulator for the charger using a switching-mode regulator because it saves about 3 watts over using an ordinary analog off-the-shelf 12 volt automotive USB charger. If you don't care about saving 3 watts, you can use any USB charger.
Click to expand...

I just ordered the Inreach SE for permanent installation on Beetle, and am very pleased to learn that it worked when mounted below-decks on your boat. I bought mine through Cabela's (REI was sold out, Delorme didn't have any), it arrives next week.

I will also be powering the unit from the microUSB cable (Delorme states they are working on a 'charging sleeve', but don't have one yet). Can you show me how to make your switching regulator? Or point me in the right direction to get one?

thanks much!

- rob/beetle
 
pbryant said:
Now if I can only find lifeline stanchions that don't force me to poke holes in my cabin deck....

I've had this idea of using a router with a bit of the same height as the core material that you insert into the drilled out hole and then gouge out the core leaving the top and bottom GRP and creating flanges that are then filled with epoxy and then re-drilled for the exact size for the mounting hardware. Plunge routers can be had in various sizes as well as stops for other micro power tools like a Dremel. I would make up a template which would make the work go faster with allot less stress.

mark:cool:
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks Mark. That sounds much more elegant than using a bent nail in an electric drill to remove the coring. But I still feel that I'd experience less emotional trauma from drilling holes in my own cranium than in my pristine 51 year-old deck.
 
I think the Olson's and Santa Cruz's have their stanchions installed that way (into holes in the gun'l). Perhaps give Ron Moore or Elkhorn Composites a ring?
 
pbryant said:
Thanks Mark. That sounds much more elegant than using a bent nail in an electric drill to remove the coring. But I still feel that I'd experience less emotional trauma from drilling holes in my own cranium than in my pristine 51 year-old deck.
Click to expand...

Ok, the router bit is called a Rabbeting bit and maybe you just need to hire or trade with some one to do the work and get it over with...
best wishes,
mark
 
Following along Mark's idea: a FRP tube with the inner diameter = to the diameter of the Stanchion can be fitted into the routed holes and a nice flange created at the deck surface. One epoxies it all into position and the stanchions than can be sealed in the resulting tubes. This is similar to the SC boats.

Brian
 
This may not be allowed, but I've been wondering about an engineered solution that involves bonding the stanchion base to the deck without a penetration? We know that modern adhesives are amazingly strong.
 
re: "I dont trust smartphones"

pbryant said:
For those who want tracking, the Delorme products cost about $300, use the same Iridium satellite constellation as the Yellowbrick, and have the ability to send and receive text messages. You can also pair them with a smartphone via Bluetooth, or use the InReach SE model standalone. http://www.inreachdelorme.com/product-info/inreachse.php. They claim the product is immersible, though I haven't tested that claim.

I have the InReach SE on my boat (I don't trust smartphones around sea water) and both the tracking and messaging have so far worked flawlessly. I bought it at REI. I have it attached to an interior bulkhead where it locks up GPS and transmits just fine through the cabin roof fiberglass.

The downside is: they only run continuously for about 4 days without a recharge. I use a USB charger to keep mine continually recharged. I built the 5 volt regulator for the charger using a switching-mode regulator because it saves about 3 watts over using an ordinary analog off-the-shelf 12 volt automotive USB charger. If you don't care about saving 3 watts, you can use any USB charger. Yes, if my vessels loses all electrical the beacon will stop after 4 days (after the week it would take for my 500 A/H of batteries to go dead). By then, something really bad has happened since I have ample PV power generation and in such extremes I'll have probably set off the EPIRB anyway.

There are monthly usage charges.
Click to expand...


Hi folks,
Not to hi-jack the thread, but I have an equipment endorsement, in view of this ongoing discussion, that some might find helpful re smartphones total lack of ability to withstand immersion. I sank my 36 foot tri three weeks ago, tin which I have been toying with the idea of entering the 2014 shtp if time/money/ permitted. I tend to read the forum as it provides info on the race and the hardware from people that have experience behind their opinions. In any case, I started a race on Saturday 8/17 at 2 p.m. I used the iphone stopwatch to start, and then threw it down on the nav table, along with my wallet, and forgot to stop the stopwatch function. The boat was salvaged from 15 feet of salt water in Lake Pontchartrain after a little more then three full days of being in the boat at the bottom of the lake. I asked the salvage guy to look for the boat, and my wallet since my apple care insurance requires that the corpus delicti be produced before they will replace the phone, and I didnt really want to spend $600 replacing it. At 9 pm. on on Tuesday night the salvor called me up and called me to come get the phone and the wallet. When I arrived, he commented that I probably needed to charge the battery. The stopwatch was showing 81 hours and counting, with a very low battery symbol. The phone was in the waterproof Otter case that I had purchased that was submersible when I bought the iphone 5 from the AT&T store, at a cost of $100. Best money I could have spent.
And all the money and cards were in the wallet too.
Jim Bate
 
I have a two iPhone stories involving a Iphn3 and an Iphn4. The former died when in my foulie's waterproof pocket when I took a big roll on a wave and flooded the cockpit, The later died in my waterproof gear bag when swimming across Hanalei bay as the bag apparently had developed a pin hole leak. Apparently the Iphn5 is much better !!! I have moved onto the darkened world of Androids.
 
pbryant said:
The short answer is "no, tracking vessels with Class B AIS via satellite is not yet reliable or feasible"..
Click to expand...

Two commercial firms, and the NSA would disagree with this statement. VesselTraffic Inc has indicated that they have proven the ability to track Class A and B reliably. I am not aware of their satellite technology but it would nt surprise me that they can use spatial antenna techniques to discriminate patches of ocean to isolate signals. In addition the AIS protocol includes a signal collision avoidance scheme which would help to a degree for nearby vessels. In any case the guys at vessel traffic are working up a proposal and quote for fleet and individual use of their system over a 2 month window. I at least have a personal interest in using the technology and hope that others may also. If the SSS can find a means of mixing tracker data, as they did in the LongPac, then their may be a couple tracker solutions that can be employed by all.
 
My wife laundered my Samsung 4g Lte after longpac. It was in the secret zipper pocket of the 2011 long PAC red jacket (nice participant gift, hint hint). To my surprise it was still on. Only lost the camera feature. Side load washers can get musty but they don't drown things. But, never wash a cushion pfd in one.
 
Update on Satellite tracking of AIS:
I have communicated with two AIS tracking companies. One of the two has responded with interest in providing a short term service of interested parties. They would like to conduct a test with a sampling of vessels that may be involved. In about 3 weeks, around the time of the Vallejo 1/2, they have asked if I could supply a group of MMSI numbers that they could input to their system and track over several days. The vessels don't need to be moving. I am asking for a few volunteers to turn on their AIS Class B transponders over a few days during the test. I would need the MMSI numbers for entry into the service providers system. Please let me know if any of you would have an interest in trying this out.
Regards, Brian
 
FYI "brianb has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."

I'll participate. Have to update my MMSI on my transponder first as changed boats/mmsi. John
 
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