Surprise!

[BobJ]

Down below things are smelling better. These lockers were full of head hoses which I'm convinced were installed before the head cabinet assembly went in! Now I have to figure out how to run the new ones. A bucket is looking like a good solution.


.

 

[Philpott]

Down below things are smelling better.
.

This fascination with alternatives to toilets, is it intrinsic to men whose ancesters wore kilts? Alan, what say you?

 

[BobJ]

Actually, women have more alternatives - the SquatShot, the SheWee, etc:

"The only leak you want on your boat."

But be sure to hold onto your phone:

The threat is real!
.

 

[jamottep]

Actually, women have more alternatives - the SquatShot, the SheWee, etc:

"The only leak you want on your boat."

But be sure to hold onto your phone:

The threat is real!
.

Gee ... The life lines should be renamed the stay away lines ... Or something like that ...

 

[hodgmo]

Surprisingly shiny stuff, but aren’t those outboard anti-siphon loops just below deck level a concern? They will not stop siphoning if they are below the waterline, as in when that side of the boat has its rail in the water. The bucket doesn't have these issues, but there are limitations to its use in civilized areas.

I just finished replacing the toilet and associated plumbing on Frolic, and the boat hasn't sunk or stunk yet, so I'm feeling pretty good (cuts, bruises and back pain aside). On Frolic I have the discharge anti-siphon under the sink cabinet, as high and inboard as possible. I got rid of the intake anti-siphon loop by teeing the water intake into the sink drain sea cock – the open sink drain acts to prevent siphoning. This also makes it easier to pickle the system. The new throne… https://photos.app.goo.gl/1qfkPLaKY6HXkFiS6

Anyway, during the process I took a deep dive into the options, and on the way came upon Peggie Hill's book on the sometimes dreaded head, and really recommend it:

https://www.amazon.com/New-Get-Rid-Boat-Odors/dp/1892399784/

Peggie is a frequent contributor to the Cruiser’s Forum and very approachable - I sent here message via Cruiser's Forum and she replied, and in the end, she gave me a lot of good advice (including the intake tee mentioned above), most of which I followed.

 

[BobJ]

Thanks Steve. I discovered some of Peggie's CF posts just last night. I didn't know she'd written a book.

I've bought most of the parts to put the system back together, including an expensive chunk of Sealand's Odor-Safe hose. It's quite stiff so my choice of locations for the Y-valve and discharge loop will be driven mostly by what's possible with the hose. I'll use a heat gun to soften it but Sealand/Dometic says to go easy with that.

It won't be hard to improve the system. TPI (builder) installed a holding tank of a brand that Practical Sailor said wouldn't hold even minimum pressure without leaking. Moreover, the boat was owned by four partners and had no sending unit on the tank, which was installed where it was hard to inspect - a bad combination. ("Did you empty it?" "No, I thought YOU did!" etc.) The hoses were run where they could have multiple low spots that could trap effluent. Poor joints, loose hose clamps etc.

I keep reminding myself that this is a low-priority project for a singlehander so I'll take it slow and try to do it right.

 

[AZ Sailor]

It won't be hard to improve the system. . . . Poor joints, loose hose clamps etc.

One thing my last boat taught me is that if you have a rigid holding tank, it needs to be very securely mounted. The tank in that boat was held down by wooden chocks that did not completely immobilize the tank in a seaway. The little bit of movement of the tank relative to the boat gradually weakened the fittings. Departing Avalon harbor early one morning, I noticed that the cabin sole was wet and quickly realized it was neither sea water nor fresh. The joint between the output hose bib and tank had parted and the compartment in which the tank resided had become a rather imperfect containment vessel for what had been the contents of the holding tank.

I fashioned a hold-down system for the replacement tank with straps from a pottery supply house that were designed to hold the two halves of a casting mold together. I cut the straps to the length needed, and had a rigging shop sew in to each end the kind of low-profile eye straps that you’d use to install hiking straps in a dinghy. The clamp/lever closures allowed the straps to be pulled very tight, and the new tank never moved as far as I could see in the remaining years I owned that boat. No further leaks.

 

[BobJ]

Thanks Lee. The new tank is narrower than the old one and the wood chocks don't support it in all directions. Those straps look like a good solution.

I wish the new tank could go in the bilge like that. Surprise!'s hull doesn't have enough deadrise to provide much space under the cabin sole.

 

[AZ Sailor]

The picture is a little confusing. The tank was in a compartment under the starboard settee. The bottom of the tank was level with the cabin sole. I would definitely go with the straps again if I had a rigid tank to tie down.

 

[Lanikai]

I'll take it slow and try to do it right.

And when you're done, you'll get to make a potpourri from the panoply of holding tank treatments, and you'll be reminded of the allegiances people have to their favorites. I'll go first: Baygreen, the mobile pumpout people, turned me on to Happy Campers. It is aptly named.

 

[BobJ]

Yes! What's funny is that two of the owners were the CEO and VP/Product Info for West Marine.

After emptying out the boat, my locker at RYC is full of that stuff. Come on over and pick your poison.
.

 

[BobJ]

Glacially slow progress.

I'm trying to convince myself that the hailing port lettering is straight. Meanwhile I now know what a "joker valve" is. There's nothing funny about it.

 

[AlanH]

reading, bemused look on my face....

 

[Gamayun]

That's a serious bottom sanding job.....

 

[BobJ]

Don't use Hydrocoat if you ever want to get it off. It's hard as nails, doesn't work, and you can't put another paint over it.

 

[Wylieguy]

3 out of the 4 large boats I've owned were "porta pottied." I know some (many?) recoil at the porta potty idea, but I've found it reasonable compared to the complications of an installed head: no thru hulls, no valves, no hoses, no stink. And no CG "Courtesy Inspection" probs.

Almost all my sailing is daysailing or an overnight to HMB or Drakes Bay, so toilet use is sort of minimalized

#1: I carry an old hospital male urinal in the head compartment for guy use. It helps keep the head compartment smelling reasonably sane since the urinal's neck is an easier target when everything swinging around (if you know what I mean) and the toilet bowel is moving, too. A quick dump into the bowl and things are over. Some women who've sailed with me used a feminine device that's similar, but most, just use the potty. I use a travel trailer enzyme product in the holding tank. No formaldehyde or chemical smell.

#2: Inshore it's the porta potty. Offshore it's the porta potty or a bucket with a fitted seat. On the way to Hawaii it was a toilet seat attached to a bracket that fit into the outboard receiver and hung over the transom (no, I don't have a picture!). Using the head on any boat is a semi-private venture no matter what. Even Jim Quanci's "Throne" (the best I've used) makes noise. And ventilation is always a problem in a small cabin.

Clipper YH has a dedicated porta potty dump station, so a quick stop and a hose out gets the porta potty ready for the next sail. I suppose growing up on a farm where we had a "two holer" part of the time and now living for nearly 50 years in a house with a septic tank has prepared me for the job?

 

[BobJ]

For me, a big part of this hobby/pastime is learning new things. I'm an accountant but my dad was a mechanic and machinist, and my mom was pretty handy too. I learned to look at how something was put together, figure out what was wrong with it and if possible, build it back better. This head/holding tank project is like that.

The book Steve recommended is helpful and even entertaining. It clued me in to two major problems with the existing system: the improper routing of the hoses and the poor venting of the tank. So when it's all back together it will be better and it won't stink. But as you suggest, the pee bottle will still be primary and the built-in system may not get used much.

 

[BobJ]

No photos yet, but another project is the transducers. The PO tried to make things better but it's taking a rework to resolve the issues. Example: Boat speed shows 3.5 knots on one tack and 6 knots on the other, even after tweaking the angle of the speed sensor which is too far up on the side of the hull. The depth sensor has been replaced with a tilted-element version that matches the hull's deadrise. The wind input seems pretty good so I'm keeping the stock B&G masthead birdie for now. The heading sensor is an old unit and not mounted in an ideal location (understatement!)

We're installing an excellent "Hall Effect" speedo on the centerline (which is proving to be a challenge due to the thickness of the cored hull), and I have plans for the heading sensor and autopilot components. Once finished this will be a very good system that can be properly calibrated.

 

[mike cunningham]

3 out of the 4 large boats I've owned were "porta pottied." I know some (many?) recoil at the porta potty idea, but I've found it reasonable compared to the complications of an installed head: no thru hulls, no valves, no hoses, no stink. And no CG "Courtesy Inspection" probs.

Almost all my sailing is daysailing or an overnight to HMB or Drakes Bay, so toilet use is sort of minimalized

#1: I carry an old hospital male urinal in the head compartment for guy use. It helps keep the head compartment smelling reasonably sane since the urinal's neck is an easier target when everything swinging around (if you know what I mean) and the toilet bowel is moving, too. A quick dump into the bowl and things are over. Some women who've sailed with me used a feminine device that's similar, but most, just use the potty. I use a travel trailer enzyme product in the holding tank. No formaldehyde or chemical smell.

#2: Inshore it's the porta potty. Offshore it's the porta potty or a bucket with a fitted seat. On the way to Hawaii it was a toilet seat attached to a bracket that fit into the outboard receiver and hung over the transom (no, I don't have a picture!). Using the head on any boat is a semi-private venture no matter what. Even Jim Quanci's "Throne" (the best I've used) makes noise. And ventilation is always a problem in a small cabin.

Clipper YH has a dedicated porta potty dump station, so a quick stop and a hose out gets the porta potty ready for the next sail. I suppose growing up on a farm where we had a "two holer" part of the time and now living for nearly 50 years in a house with a septic tank has prepared me for the job?

I took all my head plumbing out along with holding tank. This created a ton of additional room. The bloody hoses took up a huge amount of space. I left the bowl in place and poured an epoxy plug to seal the the drain opening. I use WAG bags exclusively. No muss no fuss. Used bags are stored in a sealed Home Depot bucket stored in the lazarette. Bags are trashed when I get ashore. Ladies can use them for #1 and 2, I use a bottle for #1. Works great, cheap and super clean,

 

[AZ Sailor]

No photos yet, but another project is the transducers. The PO tried to make things better but it's taking a rework to resolve the issues. Example: Boat speed shows 3.5 knots on one tack and 6 knots on the other, even after tweaking the angle of the speed sensor which is too far up on the side of the hull. The depth sensor has been replaced with a tilted-element version that matches the hull's deadrise. The wind input seems pretty good so I'm keeping the stock B&G masthead birdie for now. The heading sensor is an old unit and not mounted in an ideal location (understatement!)

We're installing an excellent "Hall Effect" speedo on the centerline (which is proving to be a challenge due to the thickness of the cored hull), and I have plans for the heading sensor and autopilot components. Once finished this will be a very good system that can be properly calibrated.

Sounds like Surprise! is right on schedule for the 2020 SHTP. Is that the plan, possibly, maybe?