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Surprise!
- Thread starter BobJ
- Start date
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Elmer* helped build a boat...
When I replaced the electric halyard winch, I saved the box that covered the old motor because it was kind of cool. Well, most of it was - apparently Elmer didn't think anyone would ever see the part of the box that lived up in the overhead. I set the box on a shelf in the garage waiting for a Grand Idea. In the meantime I've been tempted to cut the top off square, just because.
On Thursday I got the Grand Idea for how I could reuse the box so I pulled it off the shelf and went after it. Cutting anything with my Harbor Freight jigsaw is like driving a '62 Chevy Impala with bad shocks, but it turned out pretty well. I learned a term from Rob: "That's PFC." Rob must have been in the Army.
Alas, I discovered yesterday that my Grand Idea for using the box wouldn't work. It's back on the shelf in the garage, but now it won't bug me.
* With apologies to anyone named Elmer who is a good boat carpenter.
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When I replaced the electric halyard winch, I saved the box that covered the old motor because it was kind of cool. Well, most of it was - apparently Elmer didn't think anyone would ever see the part of the box that lived up in the overhead. I set the box on a shelf in the garage waiting for a Grand Idea. In the meantime I've been tempted to cut the top off square, just because.
On Thursday I got the Grand Idea for how I could reuse the box so I pulled it off the shelf and went after it. Cutting anything with my Harbor Freight jigsaw is like driving a '62 Chevy Impala with bad shocks, but it turned out pretty well. I learned a term from Rob: "That's PFC." Rob must have been in the Army.
Alas, I discovered yesterday that my Grand Idea for using the box wouldn't work. It's back on the shelf in the garage, but now it won't bug me.
* With apologies to anyone named Elmer who is a good boat carpenter.
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So, Drake's Bay didn't work out so good, as I stubbornly waited until 5PM to pull the plug on Saturday, with 20 miles of motoring before anchoring in DB well after dark.
Let's try it again, but in HMB, eh? I've got 2 new sparky fire sticks and a half dozen virgin fly swatters.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
It's a date.
Sorry you didn't bail out as early as the rest of us. Of course if you'd finished, you'd have made us look like the flakes we are.
You missed out on my chicken street tacos with special sauces. I'm not cooking in HMB - once per season is enough of that cooking stuff!
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Sorry you didn't bail out as early as the rest of us. Of course if you'd finished, you'd have made us look like the flakes we are.
You missed out on my chicken street tacos with special sauces. I'm not cooking in HMB - once per season is enough of that cooking stuff!
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Oops. We're all just glad that your head didn't soften that gybe.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Regarding that soft attachment (above), I'm not sure what to do here. I've used Harken "Loups" for a long time and I've never come close to breaking one - but Surprise! is a bigger boat.
For the HMB race, I replaced the bent SS bail with a 9mm Loup in "basket" mode, rated for 7,200# MWL. Doubling it over and putting both ends onto the block's shackle pressed hard into the ends of the Loup. It didn't appear to break any strands but HMB was a light air race. So I bought a new 10mm Loup - here it is in "vertical" mode. This single-pass configuration is rated at 5,400# MWL and looks exactly like the photo in Harken's catalog. For reference, the block is rated at 5,000# MWL and shows no wear after three years. The shackle is a Harken 8 "HR" rated at 5,130# MWL. A bow-style shackle might be wide enough to double the Loup but bow shackles don't come in HR versions and they have a much lower MWL (bored yet?)
Also, the inside edges of the boom are smooth but with hard corners, so I'm wondering if I should put spacers, nylon washers etc. between the Loup and the sides to reduce chafe. One good thing is that I can keep changing the chafe points with this arrangement. Suggestions welcome.
Other stuff from yesterday: I tested Ragtime!'s spinnaker net on Surprise! and it should work fine. I bought that net for the 2006 SHTP - it has a Spinnaker Shop label from when Synthia worked for Sally Honey. Then I hoisted one of Joe Barry's J/105 kites in a sock to test as a backup kite. I pulled out the famous (only in this thread) cockpit-mounted Zeus3 MFD and am awaiting a replacement that won't shut down whenever it receives an alarm. A fishing boat sank at North Farallon while we were racing to Drake's Bay. The boat sent multiple DSC alarms but just at those times when you want the chartplotter to record the position, it shuts down. Shallow water alarms also cause it to turn off - maybe it can't handle the stress. B&G has agreed to replace it under warranty.
For the HMB race, I replaced the bent SS bail with a 9mm Loup in "basket" mode, rated for 7,200# MWL. Doubling it over and putting both ends onto the block's shackle pressed hard into the ends of the Loup. It didn't appear to break any strands but HMB was a light air race. So I bought a new 10mm Loup - here it is in "vertical" mode. This single-pass configuration is rated at 5,400# MWL and looks exactly like the photo in Harken's catalog. For reference, the block is rated at 5,000# MWL and shows no wear after three years. The shackle is a Harken 8 "HR" rated at 5,130# MWL. A bow-style shackle might be wide enough to double the Loup but bow shackles don't come in HR versions and they have a much lower MWL (bored yet?)
Also, the inside edges of the boom are smooth but with hard corners, so I'm wondering if I should put spacers, nylon washers etc. between the Loup and the sides to reduce chafe. One good thing is that I can keep changing the chafe points with this arrangement. Suggestions welcome.
Other stuff from yesterday: I tested Ragtime!'s spinnaker net on Surprise! and it should work fine. I bought that net for the 2006 SHTP - it has a Spinnaker Shop label from when Synthia worked for Sally Honey. Then I hoisted one of Joe Barry's J/105 kites in a sock to test as a backup kite. I pulled out the famous (only in this thread) cockpit-mounted Zeus3 MFD and am awaiting a replacement that won't shut down whenever it receives an alarm. A fishing boat sank at North Farallon while we were racing to Drake's Bay. The boat sent multiple DSC alarms but just at those times when you want the chartplotter to record the position, it shuts down. Shallow water alarms also cause it to turn off - maybe it can't handle the stress. B&G has agreed to replace it under warranty.
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Jonathan Gutoff
New member
The best would be a strop around the end of the boom. The setup shown looks weak as the middle of the bolt takes the load and has chafe points.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Agreed, that would be best. I had strops around the boom on Ragtime! On this boat the sheeting angle is such that the mainsheet needs to attach at the very end of the boom where a strop would interfere with the outhaul and reefing lines.
I've considered various attachment options and it looks like the best is to change the Loup to "choker" mode, spreading the load along the bolt and also shortening the Loup to reduce the chafe points. The MWL of the Loup is reduced but it would still be within an acceptable load range.
While gybing the asymmetric spinnaker singlehanded, I have to let the main gybe "all standing." In bigger breeze it puts an unacceptable amount of shock on the gear. So the other piece of the puzzle is to add a boom brake or preferably a combination boom brake and preventer. I've never used one of these - any recommendations?
Update: After watching some videos, I ordered a Wichard Gyb'Easy. I'll play with it and report back.
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I've considered various attachment options and it looks like the best is to change the Loup to "choker" mode, spreading the load along the bolt and also shortening the Loup to reduce the chafe points. The MWL of the Loup is reduced but it would still be within an acceptable load range.
While gybing the asymmetric spinnaker singlehanded, I have to let the main gybe "all standing." In bigger breeze it puts an unacceptable amount of shock on the gear. So the other piece of the puzzle is to add a boom brake or preferably a combination boom brake and preventer. I've never used one of these - any recommendations?
Update: After watching some videos, I ordered a Wichard Gyb'Easy. I'll play with it and report back.
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Critter
Desert Ratfox
I've been thinking of adding a boom brake too. I balked at the cost of the Wichard Gyb'Easy, but then on one of the Facebook sailing groups I saw that someone was using a rock-climbing descender, obviously working on the same principle. So I got one myself. It's going to take some fiddling to rig it efficiently, but at under $20 I'm willing to go through the ordeal!
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
One of the videos demonstrated a brake similar to yours, with one primary loop. The brand was "Capt. Don." (Not sure if he's related to Capt. Ron.)
The reviews said it didn't add enough friction when the wind went over 10 knots, which is when you need it. Defender currently has the Gyb'Easy at about half price including the line, so I sprung for that.
The reviews said it didn't add enough friction when the wind went over 10 knots, which is when you need it. Defender currently has the Gyb'Easy at about half price including the line, so I sprung for that.
Intermission
Member
The reviewer needed to add another wrap or two.
I would also like to point out that a rescue eight cost $60 at Defender and $16 at R.E.I..
And what do Harken loups cost versus climbing slings, I wonder?
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BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Wichard's Gyb'Easy allows you to increase or decrease the friction by passing the bight in the line through more or fewer rings - there's no need to have access to one end of the line to add wraps. Since one or both ends will be led to blocks and then aft, the Gyb'Easy's design should be a big help when I want to make adjustments.
The Harken Loups are bloody expensive. They are the correct lengths and load ratings for the application so I've decided they're worth it. Ryan Nelson (Rogue Rigging) built similar layered dyneema loops for Ragtime! that were specific to their applications. They were beautifully made.
If the boom-end Loup pictured above gave way at the wrong time, like during a heavy-air gybe in the ocean, it could take down the rig. This isn't an area where I want to take chances by cobbling things together.
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The Harken Loups are bloody expensive. They are the correct lengths and load ratings for the application so I've decided they're worth it. Ryan Nelson (Rogue Rigging) built similar layered dyneema loops for Ragtime! that were specific to their applications. They were beautifully made.
If the boom-end Loup pictured above gave way at the wrong time, like during a heavy-air gybe in the ocean, it could take down the rig. This isn't an area where I want to take chances by cobbling things together.
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Intermission
Member
Certainly, custom dynema to the purpose is best; no argument.
Climbing gear is all rated; they tend not to skimp on strength either.
Adding another wrap to a rescue eight is as simple as pulling the bight out over the ears.
Economical redundancy or repair.
Climbing gear is all rated; they tend not to skimp on strength either.
Adding another wrap to a rescue eight is as simple as pulling the bight out over the ears.
Economical redundancy or repair.
Jonathan Gutoff
New member
I use low tech stretchy line for my traveler to help with the shock loads on a jibe. Like you we just fling the boom across. It make a loud bang but have only broke it once. (Ditch Run)
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Good idea - we did the same when we replaced the traveler lines a while back.
While I was testing lead angles for the boom brake, Dave Hodges walked by. Dave keeps Timber Wolf (see Skip's thread) nearby and is a great resource. He quickly described how he sets up to gybe solo, using the traveler position, autopilot and one trip around the boat to gybe the pole and then help the main across at just the right moment. I'd have to modify his procedure for my asymmetric kite but it reminded me that a lot of this can be solved with technique!
Here's the Loup again - we'll try this and see how it holds up. I'm still amazed at these layered dyneema loops. In "basket" mode you could lift Surprise! with this one.
While I was testing lead angles for the boom brake, Dave Hodges walked by. Dave keeps Timber Wolf (see Skip's thread) nearby and is a great resource. He quickly described how he sets up to gybe solo, using the traveler position, autopilot and one trip around the boat to gybe the pole and then help the main across at just the right moment. I'd have to modify his procedure for my asymmetric kite but it reminded me that a lot of this can be solved with technique!
Here's the Loup again - we'll try this and see how it holds up. I'm still amazed at these layered dyneema loops. In "basket" mode you could lift Surprise! with this one.
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Critter
Desert Ratfox
I figure on adding more wraps than shown in the illustration, then adjusting the drag by tensioning the line more or less. Still, it's hard to know how much drag is enough until you're out in serious wind.
Bob, I noticed that Wichard provides the line to go with the Gyb'Easy. What's special about it?
Max
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
It's blue?
I don't know but they call it "GybeFlex" line and they make a pretty big deal about it in the ads. Just the line is $165 at Landfall. Defender had the whole thing including the line for $215.
It's supposed to arrive on Friday so I'll play with it next weekend and let you know what I observe.
I don't know but they call it "GybeFlex" line and they make a pretty big deal about it in the ads. Just the line is $165 at Landfall. Defender had the whole thing including the line for $215.
It's supposed to arrive on Friday so I'll play with it next weekend and let you know what I observe.