Thread for discussion of the SSS - doublehanded / singlehanded question

[AlanH]

Yeah, I always make SSS races a "whole weekend".... .sail up Friday, Race Saturday, sail home Sunday...... but not everybody can, or wants to do that. I get it.

I have to agree with Brian and Bob on this. Having a 15 minute discussion about "Be Nice Out There" at a meeting, which only 1/5th of the fleet attends, is kind of pointless. Polite suggestions to people who aren't even there, will not make a difference.

 

[AlanH]

I like Daniel's outlook here, that we should not see this as an "us vs. them" situation. I think the thing to do here is to think of fixing the growing problem by either A.) minimizing contact on the race course, by **pick your method*... B.) making some rules changes that will .... let's go all newage talk here "De-incentivize" some folks from coming out for SSS races, or C.) talk about ways to change behavior.

I hope this discussion doesn't die down, AND I hope the Board is watching! ...if not participating

 

[AlanH]

I'll also say this...if I were on a boat that somehow wound up in a situation that resulted in another boat going up on the rocks, I for damn sure would stop racing and try to help. I would respond on the available venues about it...radio, phone, web, whatever it might be. Even if I had "right of way", wouldn't matter. If a fellow competitor gets in that situation, and I'm involved somehow, I'm not going to try to duck responsibility. I find it infuriating that the two people who were on that unknown boat have not stepped up. I can't imagine that they don't know what happened.

 

[DaveH]

I agree that this should not devolve into a Us vs Them discussion.

While that was my original complaint; with a few days to decompress and a bit of emotional distance I'll walk that back a tiny bit.
Yes, the type A sailing exhibited by some is certainly part of the problem.
And to Alan’s point above, basic seamanship would say you stop and render assistance if at all possible; at the very least my personal code of conduct would indicate owning up to your part in something like this.
Having said that, I do acknowledge that part of the reason I wound up in the position I did I was pushing things a bit too hard; as is manifestly evident.

I don't see excluding DH boats from our events as a viable path forward, and while encouraging protests and DSQ's may well change behavior it doesn't address the core issue of congestion.
On Saturday it was crowded enough at the start that a boat motoring past me, or rather between me and a J105, strummed my shrouds. I shit you not. And I didn't even get more than an "oops" – but that’s mostly another subject.

What we have is, I think, a high-class problem.
As has been stated, we appear to be a victim of our own success in putting butts in boats.
As has also been mentioned, the wider sailing world is finally realizing that what we have been leading the way on; eg that varied courses and shorthanded sailing is flat out more fun than buying sandwiches and beer for 6+ crew and sailing endless sausages (IMO; I've done both, and wouldn't necessarily swap my years sailing with a tight knit crew around laid marks- I learned a lot & made lasting friendships doing that).
I think the spirit of the discussion should be how do we manage this success and keep things safe and fun for everyone.

OK, having said all that, it appears to me that what we are talking about is ways to manage congestion and separate the single and double handed boats.
Separate starts and courses would be my vote at this point, also perhaps moving away from rolling 5 minute sequences to 10 minute intervals to spread things out more; these all have their own challenges, and I’m mostly thinking out loud now.
I also agree that we should find ways to encourage more single handing... maybe have participating in at least one single handed event a bonus for your double handed season score?

OK, that's my .02, for now.

DH

 

[Travieso]

I'm all for encouraging more single handing as well, I probably do about half and half every year since I can't compete for the season standings any more. I mostly do DH because my crew loves to get out (even travels from SEA to do it) and I happen to like hanging out with the guy. But we have a poor history of encouraging DH to go SH, my personal story is that a few years ago I lost the DH season championship because 'some' complained that I had done one of the DH races SH.... Go figure... This might have been corrected now on the SSI's, but I haven't looked at the season scoring in a while.

But realize that a race with 130 SH boats will be even more problematic than a race with 100 DH and 30 SH boats.... Careful what we ask for.

I think the start sequence for the race on Saturday had the right idea, the first (albeit small) restart didn't help, but you can't plan for that. There have been some good suggestions in the thread for incremental improvements.

 

[Willpower]

I agree the issue is not us vs then but maybe just some separation along the course. Blossom had some bumper cars the year I was race chair and tacking up the city front is alway tough SH against DH.

What if we keep it simple with a SH course and a DH course. Same start and finish but have the SH round the GGYC buoy and DH round Blossom for the Corinthian. SH still need to tack up the city front but hopefully out of DH traffic from Blossom.

We could also try this separation in Round the Rock, having SH course shorter by rounding Point Stuart or Red Rock with DH staying with rounding Harding and Brothers. Might have an added benefit of helping slower SH finishing....Just my two cents...Rick

 

[DonMartin]

Thank you all for your comments. I have received a few emails pointing me to this discussion and I have been following it. I registered for the race but did not sail because I was on RC. So, I have little first-hand knowledge of the conditions. I will open up the Awards meeting for a discussion of the issues touched upon in this thread.

Don Martin
Commodore SSS

 

[AlanH]

Now I have extra incentive to show up for this meeting!

 

[Hadlock]

The 3BF is just a quirky thing, people like it, we should keep doing it.

What I DO miss, and care about is the sense of community within the SSS that has been seriously diluted for many reasons. The Corinthian YC was open to us for dinner after the race on Saturday. That was announced here on the board. A few of the RC members stuck around, afterwards, but the "SSS Members for Dinner" was three people. .....but that's a little off-topic

My experience sailing in Texas was we would trailer boats from lake to lake for regatta events, there was ALWAYS a great big party (ala great vallejo or delta ditch) saturday night afterwards... a lot of these events have a "social chair" to promote dinner/beverages afterwards. 80% stayed for at least an hour... 60% usually at least an hour after dinner.

I think I read about a possible raft-up in some of the literature leading up to the race. I think there is interest in doing that here but needs work to get out the word, and then also post photos of the post-race party where people can see it.

 

[Philpott]

Wonderful idea and welcome to the SSS! Congratulations, Singlehander in Training, you have found your niche in the SSS. Dura Mater and I will come to your first post-race party with leftover July Four sparklers. Will that be Texas barbeque?

 

[tboussie]

This is Tom Boussie. I am SSS Race Chair for the 2020 season and the Corinthian race was my first experience running a big fleet race. I wanted to first thank everyone who volunteered on the race deck: Greg, Kristen, Don, Joe, as well as Jim Vickers who did all of the work setting up the race. It is a madhouse starting and finishing 130 boats and we definitely needed all hands on deck!

I have been following the discussion on the forum regarding ideas to mitigate SH/DH conflicts at the start and on the course as our fleets grow and, in particular, the number of DH boats increases. These include (among others): 10 min starts, separate SH/DH courses, separate SH/DH race days, eliminating SSS races as season-counters for one design fleets, and better educational outreach to the DH sailing community. As the Round The Rocks race has historically attracted nearly as many entrants as the Corinthian, I think that we need to consider these options as soon as possible.

In addition to opening up the Corinthian awards meeting to this discussion, I would like to form a small working committee of experienced SSS skippers to formulate specific options for consideration by the SSS Board and myself. If you are interested in participating in this effort, please PM me on this forum or contact me via email at tboussie at gmail dot com.

On a side note, I personally think this is more about density of dissimilar boats rather than strictly SH/DH conflicts. There were several protests and two collisions in this race, with equal fault on SH and DH sides. I am confident that we can make adjustments to our racing format to increase the safety and enjoyment of our races, while at the same time making our series welcome to the widest possible audience (with particular emphasis on our foundational SH community). I welcome everyone’s help in making this happen.

 

[Cklammer]

I must add my experience at Blossom of blatant disregard for a singlehander by a doublehander. When I called for room the response was a yell laden with fear, maybe due to the fact that they were still getting the spin down at a crowded mark, “you better make this clean Palapa!”, I called for room again as I had not received any yet and informed him I was solo, the response was, “I don’t care, you better make it clean Palapa”. Well it was clean, and as I was putting in my reefs, sounds of yelling wafted over, I looked back at the mark to see the same angry yeller being barreled down on by a much larger boat, it looked like a collision from my perspective but I’m not sure. At the time I just chalked it up to “this is racing”, having been in the situation many times before in fully crewed races. So, I’m happy to hear that the distinction should be made in a short handed race. This sure would make me feel safer. After reefing I contemplated my next move but was distracted by the radio chatter of this boat getting hit and that boat getting hit. Imagining blackaller to be an even worse scenario, that’s when I too dropped out.

That all being said, I still had a blast. It was exhilarating and I learned a lot.

 

[DonMartin]

The Corinthian Awards Meeting on March 18 has been postponed due to virus concerns.

Don Martin
Commodore SSS

 

[Hadlock]

Wonderful idea and welcome to the SSS! Congratulations, Singlehander in Training, you have found your niche in the SSS. Dura Mater and I will come to your first post-race party with leftover July Four sparklers. Will that be Texas barbeque?

I wholeheartedly volunteer as the Party Planning Committee chair

Hopefully this whole virus thing blows over, hopefully by July 4, so we can all have a healthy supply of sparklers. There will definitely be Texas Barbecue.

 

[AlanH]

I immediately volunteered to work on a committee about this problem, but have not heard back. I know we can't meet, now but that doesn't mean we can't make some progress on the issue. Anyway, it's now been 18 days and no response, so I'm rescinding my offer.