Tracker type comparison for use in the SHTP

[brianb]

Tracker Type Comparison:

Yellow Brick (YB), DeLorme(DL)
Common features:
Both use Iridium satellites for 100% coverage of the course. Both provide hourly position updates. Both are self contained. Both have mapping services for online viewing.

Differences:
YB are rented units, DL is purchased.
If DL were to be selected the sailors would own the units once the race was over.
DL's "In Reach" unit has built in short message service via a Bluetooth link to a smart phone or computer. YB's base unit does not provide this feature.
YB provides a website accessible by all that shows hourly reports. DL has a website service for groups that shows global position at a premium price.
YB units will run for about 30 days and possibly longer. DL would likely achieve 20 days but would need testing. In reality DL would have to include a small external battery to assure run time over the race course.
YB is waterproof and mountable on the boats rail. DL is watertight but to accomodate a battery it would have to be housed in a small Otter Box and attached to the rail, at a small cost.
DL's quarterly service would allow initial costs to be similar to YB but the added battery and cost of the Enterprise mapping service would drive the per boat cost well above the YB service.
In summary DL, while attractive would not be turn key for the user or the committee, and would lack affordable website position reporting.

 

[BobJ]

At least YB knows how to project the results using TOD now. I corrected all the ratings and did the math for them in 2012 - I hope they saved the formulas.

(No, I'm not indicating acquiescence . . .)

 

[brianb]

Understood.........you are still in the no way Jose column.

 

[WBChristie]

How many would be competitors for next year already own a DL...?

 

[Mewes]

When I want to look at YB, I have to buy each race.

The racers I know with DL's do not mount them on the rail, they mount them at the nav station. They also use them for messaging and with other interfaces.

RC needs only 12 hourly position reports, not hourly.

Bob, what do you mean you did the TOD for YB in 2012?

While DeLorme charges extra for its group mapping service, I understood that this can be done in-house, an outside service is not necessarily required.

 

[brianb]

To make DL bullet proof we the RC need to do the following:
1 Supply a waterproof box and an extra battery for the unit. This is to allow external mounting, else the skipper could accidentally take the DL offline. The battery is to assure operation all the way.
2 Test the lifetime once a battery choice is made.
3 Set up mode of operation for all units prior to install.
-- if skipper wants to use the messaging service than we will have to enable bluetooth in the setup. Bluetooth battery use will have to be tested.
4 Construct a mapping site and debug this prior to race start.

Seems like too much effort when we can go turn key with YB, almost no effort.
BB

 

[brianb]

We don't know how many competitors have a DL, because we only have 3 entrants and of that number we know one has a Spot.

 

[[email protected]]

I have the DeLorme SE that I used offshore last year. I had it mounted below at the nav station. A nice feature is that the tracking website posts the text messages you send on the track whare and when you sent them. While a connection to a laptop makes texting easier, it can be done directly from the unit. I can assure you it does not need to be on the rail. I can charge from the ships system or it can operate on the batteries. I sent and received texts from my students and family easily. DeLorme offers a 'seasonal' subscription that costs me about $40.00 a month for a three month period. The cost of the subscription depends on the amount of texting you are planning on doing.Access to the tracking website was easy for the people watching. I am really impressed with the unit. My wife uses it on her backpacking trips. This is a piece of gear that has really performed flawlessly and is easy to use.

 

[brianb]

I have the DeLorme SE that I used offshore last year. I had it mounted below at the nav station. A nice feature is that the tracking website posts the text messages you send on the track whare and when you sent them. While a connection to a laptop makes texting easier, it can be done directly from the unit. I can assure you it does not need to be on the rail. I can charge from the ships system or it can operate on the batteries. I sent and received texts from my students and family easily. DeLorme offers a 'seasonal' subscription that costs me about $40.00 a month for a three month period. The cost of the subscription depends on the amount of texting you are planning on doing.Access to the tracking website was easy for the people watching. I am really impressed with the unit. My wife uses it on her backpacking trips. This is a piece of gear that has really performed flawlessly and is easy to use.

Hi SD,
Sounds great. In speaking with DL sales they tell me to get a "fleet" map, that is with more than two users, they require the purchase of an "enterprise" acct. They admitted that this would not be cost effective compared to other commercial mapping providers for 20 users who also have to purchase a 4 month subscription. The enterprise account will be a large expense. TO do the mapping function for the fleet we are then left to fend for ourselves as a club. That leaves us with having to duplicate what YB provides at no extra cost. Presently, unless DL were to alter their plan, the YB approach is lower cost and bullet proof for the sailors, their onlookers/loved ones, and the SSS committee. I have a few more questions pending at DL but it doesn't look like the best approach.

 

[Harrier]

How about eliminating the "Tracker" requirement from the race instructions....???

 

[Philpott]

How about eliminating the "Tracker" requirement from the race instructions....???

As a Blue Star mom, I would never argue with a general.

 

[pogen]

I'm not that familiar with DeLorme, but from the discussion above and what I have seen from Yellowbrick on many races in the past they have a very easy to use system from the point of view of both the competitors and those whose job it is to get tracking info to the public. The YB unit is completely self contained and imposes no additional work load on the competitor after install. The YB unit should be mounted on the rail for use -- this is mandated in the SIs for other races. I am concerned that if one is operating the Delorme below decks (possibly below the waterline) without a deck-mounted antenna that it may not be as reliable as YB. YB also has a good track record the last few years as the tracker for Transpac, Pac Cup, Cabo Races, etc. and I understand customer service is good.

Even if we were to make the fairly radical change to use tracker data in place of daily manual position reports, we would still be faced with the same DL/YB system choice. Neither, I believe, gives feedback to the sender that his message has been received.

In the 2012 PacCup, one acceptable method of daily position reporting was to send an SMS via satphone to a certain shoreside phone number, and a few minutes later one would get a pingback text confirming message receipt. I think this worked well. Note that for PacCup and other races, if satphone is an essential part of your comms for position reporting, then a deck level antenna is required.

So all in all using what we know today, I would support Yellowbrick as the choice if a tracker is to be mandated.

 

[Harrier]

I'd agree with the previous post, IF trackers are mandated. I also think that, if trackers are not mandated, then SatFone
transmitted position reports should be enabled as an alternative to SSB reports, which may not always be suitable due to propagation problems.

 

[ronnie simpson]

because we only have 3 entrants .

who are the 3 entrants?

i am a huge fan of the yellowbrick trackers over any other alternative - if trackers are mandated.

and i am a huge fan of trackers being mandated. it's 2014. the technology is there and it works. it is positive in every single aspect except for the matter of cost.

last year alone it saved me from penalties of not checking in when i had absolutely no battery power in the race. hand steering a moore with a chute up, i didnt really want to have to text on a sat phone either. instad, the brilliant little automatic, bulletproof reliable, beacon mounted on my pulpit did it all for me. and it allowed me, a sponsored entrant- to be viewed by sponsors and supporters. the yellowbrick format makes the race infinitely more attainable, viewable and entertaining to anyone not actually sailing on a boat. in this day and age of social media, we should be doing what we can to keep the race vibrant and relevant and the yb format is brilliant.

and then after the race the tracker allowed me and my really cool friend ruben to go on a fun boat ride in maui and help a sick shtp entrant get his house back.

in a solo ocean race, i very much like to simply be able to sail my boat and not do much else but sail my boat. even checking in is a burden if you are focused on sailing. i skipped many check ins in 2010 because only 1 per day was required. and last year when i physically didnt have the ability to check in and was totally focused on sailing, the tracker allowed me to remain focused on sailing.

 

[BobJ]

This race isn't to feed the social media. It has never been a popularity contest or a means to build a sailing career.

For years we have been able to get the position information sent ashore and put up on a web page. The volunteer effort required to get that done is part of what keeps us together as a club. Yes, it takes some work - both on the part of the skippers and a couple of folks here at home who love the race and want to support it with their time and efforts. Do we no longer have any of those people?

Indeed, some years skippers had power problems which caused them to miss check-ins. They paid a time penalty for it. It's supposed to work that way to encourage good preparation. That's why we have seminars, we help each other, give advice, etc.

The problem is that most of you lack the long-term history and perspective on this race.

 

[Harrier]

Bob: Your last comment could be arguable, to say the least!

Used to be that those competitors who were ham licensed picked up VHF positions when possible and sent tham back to a Ham in the Oakland Yacht Club. Probably less than half the fleet got their positions reported to RC. But on we went. I still am adamantly against penalties for not reporting. With race being probably the most expensive W. Coast race, it seems to me that garnering a 1 hour penaly per day in the event of failure of a piece of Japanese radio equipment is shameful!

So, at least, the Yellow Brick in last year's race eliminated that problem. So if the RC is going to require mandatory daily checkins...or else!...I vote for the Yellow Brick. "IF" is the operative word. I'm more inclined to not require checkins. Enable them, encourage them, but don't penalize us for electronic failures. As I recall, your mentioned once that , as Race Chairman, you were worried that competitor "X" could not communicate positions. I'd say: Don't be.

 

[Lightspeed]

Lightspeed is one of the three signed up and here are my thoughts:

1. I hope the final decision will be made by the majority of the racers.
2. I vote for Yellow Brick.
3. Lightspeed had YB in last year’s Pac Cup and it worked flawlessly, clip it on the stern and go.
4. The race is a personal challenge but many of my family and friends have worked hard to help Lightspeed. They want to see the race and YB tracking is a simple way to do that.
5. Technology is moving so fast that the device you own/buy today will most likely be obsolete in 3 to 4 years so rent YB.
6. Last, Ronnie is right. Things can get out of control and YB’s simplicity makes it my vote.

Rick/Lightspeed

 

[Critter]

Bob, what do you mean you did the TOD for YB in 2012?

As I recall, at some point, during or shortly after the race, the scoring was totally wrong. YB apparently didn't understand how to do TOD scoring.

 

[pogen]

I'm pretty sure if we can coordinate with YB with enough advance notice, providing them the exact formula etc., and possibly doing some dry-run testing beforehand, we can get the real-time scoring estimate to work.

 

[brianb]

I wonder if the live scoring guess should be left to the committee and not the satellite service provider ? After all it is just a guess until all boats have arrived. A daily spread sheet could be put up to show standings for those onshore.