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Transport...

J

Jerome

New member
Dear all,

I know we have talked about it in previous threads, but can't find the information anymore.

It would be great if we could get a better understanding of the transport situation/agreement with the shipping company, for those who intend to ship their boats back:

- which shipping company is partnering up with the SHTP? Pasha or Matson?
- what is the contact information of the person we should talk to at the selected shipping company?
- where do we drop off our trailers?
- where will we be able to haul our boats out of the water in Kauaii?
- where are boats and trailer being shipped back? My understanding is that it could be done in Los Angeles as well (for those who are outside the bay).

Also, in 2012, a crate was shipped with additional materials and outboard motors. Any ideas on this point?

Thanks a lot,

Jerome
biohazard
 
Hi Jerome -
to my knowledge the "same deal as Pac Cup" applied to Matson only, and predates the new sponsorship arrangement between Pac Cup and Pasha.
You'll have to ask the committee, but to my knowledge there is no standing shipping sponsorship with SHTP and either company.
Also, to my knowledge, Pasha does not service the outer islands... I could be mistaken though.
I did have a conversation with Matson some months ago in which they said that they could ship a boat to LA, but it would be cross loaded in Oahu.
there is direct service to Oakland with Matson

re haul out in Kauaii; This has taken place in Nahwiliwili, and is accomplished with Larry Coklin's crane [which is the one-&-only crane on the island].
there are NO haul out facilities on Kauai.

DH
 
DaveH said:
Hi Jerome -
to my knowledge the "same deal as Pac Cup" applied to Matson only, and predates the new sponsorship arrangement between Pac Cup and Pasha.
You'll have to ask the committee, but to my knowledge there is no standing shipping sponsorship with SHTP and either company.
Also, to my knowledge, Pasha does not service the outer islands... I could be mistaken though.
I did have a conversation with Matson some months ago in which they said that they could ship a boat to LA, but it would be cross loaded in Oahu.
there is direct service to Oakland with Matson

re haul out in Kauaii; This has taken place in Nahwiliwili, and is accomplished with Larry Coklin's crane [which is the one-&-only crane on the island].
there are NO haul out facilities on Kauai.

DH
Click to expand...

Does it make sense to arrange this as a group of skippers that are planning to ship back?
It would be great to have a skippers meeting once a month to discuss these topics.
The seminars are great but there are many other folks there as well. It would be nice to have a dedicated skippers meeting. I'm happy to host....

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK
 
dhusselman said:
Does it make sense to arrange this as a group of skippers that are planning to ship back?
It would be great to have a skippers meeting once a month to discuss these topics.
The seminars are great but there are many other folks there as well. It would be nice to have a dedicated skippers meeting. I'm happy to host....

Dirk "TIJD" - First 30JK
Click to expand...

Perhaps so. As a novitiate, I would greatly profit from meeting those more experienced in a concentrated setting.

Also, I would like to ship some non-racing luxury items over so that they could be available for the delivery back to the mainland. So, does it make sense to share a shipping container?

Signed,
The Who from the s/v Owl
 
I was not at the February meeting seminar meeting for "The Return Trip" and it seems like we do not have any presentation material, though I heard that someone recorded video and might post it to YouTube.

In past years, smaller boats that already owned their own trailers were able to get the trailers to Kauai, haul with the crane (the only crane) and de-rig themselves, and then were able to get the boats sent home from there. I know TAZ and other Express 27s and Moores have done this, relatively painlessly. I know that Outsider one year had to sail from Kauai to Oahu, which is a pretty tough beat, in order to load at Keehi Marine in Oahu.

If you have a bigger boat and need the yard to de-rig/load, need to rent a trailer and get it over there, etc. etc. this can be very expensive. Rates at Keehi for everything are very high. And then putting the boat back together once in California is also a big yard task. The actual fee to Matson for shipping is only part of the expense. One thing that Matson has done in the past is that they do not include the length of the mast in calculating the overall load volume, and it is not part of the very strict limit on size -- particularly loaded height. My boat has high topsides, and on a trailer I think it barely made the 15' max limit for RoRo.
 
What Pogen says is all, to my knowledge, accurate.
I would add that there is a limit to what Larry's crane can pick. I Have a call in to him about what it is, but from memory I believe its 6000 lbs.

In the past, the Matson "deal" that mirrored the Pac Cup boiled down to free outbound shipping of the empty trailers.
Again, no knowledge if that will be the case this year.

I agree with Dirk that the shipping / logistics questions would benefit from a more focused group than we seem to have time for at the seminars.
If nothing else, I think it would help to distill what peoples needs and expectations are and perhaps designate a few people to deal with some specific research items [eg calling Matson, the crate, etc] in order to avoid a lot of duplicated effort.

This is just my .02, but the history of the race favors self sufficiency, and I don't see that burdening the committee with the needs of a sub-set [in which I may include myself] that wants/ needs additional support is legit.

DH
 
Matson charges by the cubic foot -- literally, max width X height X length, including your bow pulpit, anything hanging off the back, the tongue of the trailer, etc. So having your mast length not included is actually a big deal -- be sure to ask in advance.


Here is some contact info from 2012, shipping Oahu >> SF


From: "Tony Souza at PHX x5119" <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, September 06, 2012 4:29 pm
To: "Tony Souza at PHX x5119" <[email protected]>,

David,

Here are the dims: 51’ L x 9’ 3” W x 14’ 5” H.

Please let us know who you want to release this to.
Mahalo,
Tony Souza
Matson Navigation Company
Conventional Group Team Lead
888-362-8766 (ext) 5119
480-736-9589 (fax)
[email protected]
www.Matson.com
Click to expand...
 
Transport: GROUP EFFORT

ladies, gentlemen,

I am swamped, but I believe we will only benefit from a group effort for logistics.

I have worked with Pasha since 2012. Never had an issue and I have been lucky to talk to the same person for the past 4 years.

I volunteer to gather the information and deal with PASHA for those who want to use their services.

If you do, email me the following information by the end of the week.

See below a Dropbox link with two documents which i was asked to fill in in 2012 and 2013 (race from los angeles). They may have changed, but that's a start. One document is to gather the information of your trailer, empty for the westbound voyage. The other document is boat on trailer, for the eastbound voyage.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/uwirp3i5433oku0/AAC9inmaXZGcY5ZaOqypW11_a?dl=0

I talked to Pasha a few months ago and the deal is same as pac cup.

I am happy to help but won't wait past Monday March 21st to submit the information to Pasha so please be kind to email me the 2 forms completed to [email protected]

ps: if you want to ship anything else to hawaii, please describe in your email with dimensions (outboard for example).

Thanks

jerome
 
sounds great...

I am still going to confirm shipping for my boat (and another guy in so. cal.) on monday with Pasha...I just don't want to wait last second to do it.

Cheers
jerome
 
Pasha doesn't ship to NorCal as far as I can remember. Matson is easy..... price included the trailer shipping over. Trailer drop is in Oakland. The barge in Kauai is a newer development and costs extra for the barge ride to Oahu and the crane.

You need to have the boat well strapped down..... by the time I hit the inspection for the 3rd time I had over 50k lbs in straps holding the boat onto the trailer. I also had to "box" in the keel which consisted of 4x6 beams bolted to the keel tray.
 
Pasha's deal with Pacific Cup YC includes trucking to Oakland. At $15 X Beam X Boat LOA, it's a better rate than Matson has been. Therefore I respectfully disagree that this is the individual skippers' deal to negotiate. If the SSS can get Pasha to extend the Pacific Cup deal to the SHTP fleet it would be a big benefit.

Regarding barging from Nawiliwili to Honolulu, my recollection was it added $500 per boat, but that was with Matson. I assume if you're shipping to the mainland with Pasha a change in terminals would be required in Honolulu (from Matson's to Pasha's). That could change all the numbers.

Having sailed from Hanalei to Honolulu on my 5,500# boat, I would do that again if I could get the Pasha shipping rate back to Oakland (you do like to sail, right?) Unless of course Matson sweetens its deal to match Pasha's. IMO, one of the Kahunas needs to work this out on behalf of the fleet.
 
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I just called Matson. They were helpful although the lady I talked to said they didn't have the preferred "racing" rate entered in the system yet. She asked me to call back in 2 hours to check again. I will post whatever I found on the forum for everyone's information.
 
OK - I called Matson and spoke with Rachel to start the conversation;
she is routing an inquiry to their pricing people for confirmation, but preliminary indication is that the previous "deal" will apply - eg Free Transport of empty trailer to Nawiliwili return will be cube of the boat and trailer, excluding the mast.

Outbound Route is OAK [or LB]-Oahu-Nawiliwili
Return is the same, the pivot point being Oahu

SO- for the SoCal contingent - the answer is yes, you could drive a boat up to the bay area, put in at Alameda, consign the trailer to Matson in Oakland and ship it to Kauai, then return Boat and Trailer to Long Beach

Dimensional Restrictions for Matson - 14.5' Height [including the trailer wheels], 13' width

I also discussed Sailing schedules with Rachel - this info is preliminary, as they are not officially posted yet, but probably true within a day or so.
Relevant outbound Sailings from OAK - 6/17 & 7/1 - it is a total of 2 weeks transit time; trailers would arrive Nawiliwili on 7/1 & 7/15 respectively

I also spoke with Larry Conklin who has been speaking with George and Brian
There is a plan to coordinate a sail around the island from Hanallei to Nawiliwili on the 22nd or 23rd; Awards Ceremony would be the Evening of the 23rd at Nawiliwili YC.
Boats to de-rig and pull on the 23rd-24th and be consigned to the Matson yard in Nawiliwili.
He reports that George and him are coordinating an info sheet regarding what his crane can and cannot do [and other details] that should be out shortly.

Return -
Next available outbound barge to Oahu is 7/29, then sailing from Oahu to OAK on 8/5 and LA on 8/6. Boats presumably available on 8/12 in both locations.

@ Jerome - I would be curious what Pasha has to say... to my knowledge they have no office on Kauai, where as there is a Large Matson yard at the port.

I will update with actual rates when I hear back from Matson.

hope that helps

DH

EDIT, was writing this as Jerome was posting... sounds like we need a coordination meeting, but its good to have the confimation
EDIT EDIT - and just refreshed to read Bob's post - OK, I'm out
 
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for what it's worth, I sailed my Moore 24 US 101 to Oahu (twice, actually) after the SHTP 2012 and shipped back on Matson. They honored the Pac Cup deal and I was able to ship my trailer to hawai'i for free and ship the boat home for about $2,800 or 3 grand. They were pretty good to work with. the main reason i went Matson instead of Pasha was because Pasha only shipped to So Cal, if i recall correctly. they quoted me slightly less money, but with Matson shipping back to Oakland, so close to Alameda, it was just a no brainer for me to go with Matson.

I've seen people launch fairly large boats at boat ramps here in Hawaii. Moore 24's and Express 27's, with their sub-5' draft should be able to get around paying for a crane, no? I don't know, i've never ramp-launched a sailboat with only one hull and a keel, but i would think it would be pretty do able.

aloha

ronnie

EDIT: When I checked in 2012 with Pasha, they were also helpful on the phone and agreed to honor the Pac Cup deal.... also, i agree with Bob, i've crossed the Kauai Channel upwind (and down) a number of times. It's really not that bad... Just reef her deep and leave from Hanalei so you have more room to fall off. By the time you're really hating life, you start getting into the lee of Barber's Point and can enjoy a morning coffee before drinks and lunch at the YC.

EDIT #2: The Kauai Channel race should be just a couple weeks after the SHTP awards. In 2012, I sailed 101 upwind to Oahu and then raced back downwind to Nawiliwili before sailing back to oahu again and shipping the Moore home. Racing in the Kauai Channel race was one of the best and most memorable experiences I ever had with the boat and I would very highly recommend it. I am always shocked that no one stays around to do any real sailing or racing once they are here. This place rocks.
 
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I am always shocked that no one stays around to do any real sailing or racing once they are here.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a great race! Most competitors have a hard enough time getting time off just to do the race and for the same reason many who want to sail home can't justify the extra weeks off.
 
BobJ said:
That's great Dave. Maybe you are the SSS Shipping Kahuna and don't know it!
Click to expand...

as tempted as I am to reply with the W.T. Sherman quote here (if nominated I will not accept, etc) , I do have some relevant updates from Matson.

Rachel confirmed that the previous arrangements as stated above will apply; eg, rates include outbound trailer transport from OAK, and return with loaded boat.

Measurement of return load excludes mast, but does include the total foot print of boat and trailer [eg, if your trailer tongue extends past your bow, that will be part of the measurement]

Rate is $75 per Measured Ton.
One Measured Ton=40 cubic feet.
formula: Length [in feet] x Width [in feet] x Height [in feet]= Load in Cubic Feet / 40= Measured Tons x$75 = estimated cost.

So for my 30'x8.5' boat that sits 11.5' tall on the trailer the math is; 30*8.5*11.5=2932.5 cu ft./40=73.3125 measured tons*$75=$5498

Larry charges $500/boat to pull the mast with the crane, and picking the boat from water to trailer.
you do not need a single point rig, he has a set of spreaders and slings.

OK, that's what I know about shipping from Kauai.

I don't really have any idea if the Pasha Sponsorship for Pac Cup could or would be extended to SHTP boats, who would be essentially 2 weeks earlier.
I do think that there are some hidden gotcha's on the straight up rate comparison, most notable cost of getting the trailer from / to Kauai; or if sailing to Oahu, the logistics of picking it up and storing the trailer in Oahu while you are at sea.

That's what I know, for now... most else is speculation.

Best,

DH
 
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