marinergeek
Express 27 "Mariner"
Could you post some pictures of the installation, I just purchased hull #44 and will be installing an X-5 later this year. Any tips to pass along?
Bill
Bill
-
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Cheers - Bryan
Where to mount control head for Raymarine Smartpilot X-5 Tiller Autopilot?
- Thread starter todd22123
- Start date
hi Bill, i posted a few photos. http://tinyurl.com/3vnxmf5 as far as tips, the directions are complete and well written. it is probably important to use marine wire and ensure it is the proper size for the wire run from the battery to the ram. at least one person, Idefix Adrian Johnson, i believe did not establish a separate ground wire with no ill effects after sailing to and from hawaii. that could possibly save some work.
Todd
Todd
marinergeek
Express 27 "Mariner"
Hi Todd,
That gave me a good idea what to expect, thanks. Did you ground to the negative battery terminal? or a separate ground to a keel bolt / plate.
Bill
That gave me a good idea what to expect, thanks. Did you ground to the negative battery terminal? or a separate ground to a keel bolt / plate.
Bill
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
X5 experience with/without rudder sensor
A quick observation about the X5 and rudder sensor:
I have about 13 hrs on my X5 install. I have two independent drives tied to tiller. One uses a rudder sensor I made, the other runs the motorized drive unit without rudder sensor. The great thing about a rudder sensor is that you never get motor over drive and subsequent AP switch to stand bye. If I am running with the electrical drive unit, W/O sensor, gusty conditions will force the ram all the way to the extremes. THen motor current skyrockets and the X5 shuts down. With the above deck hydraulic unit and sensor the X5 knows how far it can travel and hence never goes to a extreme forcing the motor into high currents. Obviously, if one were asleep or forward, the rudder sensor adds keeps the AP in AUTO mode adding a touch of assurance to course holding.
Brian
A quick observation about the X5 and rudder sensor:
I have about 13 hrs on my X5 install. I have two independent drives tied to tiller. One uses a rudder sensor I made, the other runs the motorized drive unit without rudder sensor. The great thing about a rudder sensor is that you never get motor over drive and subsequent AP switch to stand bye. If I am running with the electrical drive unit, W/O sensor, gusty conditions will force the ram all the way to the extremes. THen motor current skyrockets and the X5 shuts down. With the above deck hydraulic unit and sensor the X5 knows how far it can travel and hence never goes to a extreme forcing the motor into high currents. Obviously, if one were asleep or forward, the rudder sensor adds keeps the AP in AUTO mode adding a touch of assurance to course holding.
Brian
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Brian, I upgraded from Ray's S1G to the X-5, mostly to get rid of the rudder sensor (the S1G required one). My boat is lighter than yours and if I'm careful to keep the sail plan reasonably balanced, I don't get the drive overload error to which you refer.
However, especially with the kite up in ocean conditions, I'm starting to think the X-5 without the sensor isn't as sharp as was the S1G. I recently bought another rotary sensor and could easily install it back there - although I don't really want to since it's very exposed on my boat.
So the question: Do you think adding the rudder sensor to the X-5 will improve its sensitivity or responsiveness? From what I've read, it only seems to be used to provide input to the rudder position instrument (if you have one).
Also a "For Sale" item: I have an older but never-used Raymarine linear rudder position sensor, waterproofed for use with outboards. A few boats have used these linear sensors, usually piggybacked on the drive unit, rather than the rotary-type sensor. Raymarine still makes it and it's worth a couple hundred bucks - but if it fits your application let me know and I'll sell it cheap.
However, especially with the kite up in ocean conditions, I'm starting to think the X-5 without the sensor isn't as sharp as was the S1G. I recently bought another rotary sensor and could easily install it back there - although I don't really want to since it's very exposed on my boat.
So the question: Do you think adding the rudder sensor to the X-5 will improve its sensitivity or responsiveness? From what I've read, it only seems to be used to provide input to the rudder position instrument (if you have one).
Also a "For Sale" item: I have an older but never-used Raymarine linear rudder position sensor, waterproofed for use with outboards. A few boats have used these linear sensors, usually piggybacked on the drive unit, rather than the rotary-type sensor. Raymarine still makes it and it's worth a couple hundred bucks - but if it fits your application let me know and I'll sell it cheap.
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brianb
Olson 34 Driver
Rudder Sensor
Hi Bob,
I don't think it alters sensitivity, a bit hard to tell actually. The dynamics seem the same with and without the sensor. I made a sensor that is well protected and due to the approach can not be broken by turning the tiller too far (some boats have had that happen).
As far as purchasing a sensor, no need. They are quite easy to construct and cost is nil.
Have you thought about going below deck and tying a multi turn sensor to the rudder post ? This eliminates the possibility of breaking the sensor and puts it out of the weather.
Regards,
Brian
Hi Bob,
I don't think it alters sensitivity, a bit hard to tell actually. The dynamics seem the same with and without the sensor. I made a sensor that is well protected and due to the approach can not be broken by turning the tiller too far (some boats have had that happen).
As far as purchasing a sensor, no need. They are quite easy to construct and cost is nil.
Have you thought about going below deck and tying a multi turn sensor to the rudder post ? This eliminates the possibility of breaking the sensor and puts it out of the weather.
Regards,
Brian
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
Rudder Sensor
Bob
So here is an example of a home made below deck sensor. I did something like this above deck but integrated with hydraulics.
http://northernlight.vermontficks.org/rudder_sensor.html
You need to know a little about the electronics but not much. I spent about $15 to build my sensor, and of course install time.
Bob
So here is an example of a home made below deck sensor. I did something like this above deck but integrated with hydraulics.
http://northernlight.vermontficks.org/rudder_sensor.html
You need to know a little about the electronics but not much. I spent about $15 to build my sensor, and of course install time.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Ragtime!'s rudder post tube is glassed in from the cockpit floor to the hull so nothing can be attached down there. I don't really want to cut it open, though some have done it (the Moore 24 "Color Blind" and Express 27 "Mirage" come to mind).
I'll wait for the pending X-5 software upgrade and see if it improves the performance. If not, I'll revisit all this.
I sold the linear rudder reference at the meeting and maybe the rotary unit will be available before long. I'd rather be able to "leave home without it."
Brian, I have your original survey from LongPac inspections in 2009 - I need to get that back to you!
I'll wait for the pending X-5 software upgrade and see if it improves the performance. If not, I'll revisit all this.
I sold the linear rudder reference at the meeting and maybe the rotary unit will be available before long. I'd rather be able to "leave home without it."
Brian, I have your original survey from LongPac inspections in 2009 - I need to get that back to you!
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
Bob,
Are you saying RM has a new rotary ref. coming out ? They already have one, with the little arm, thought that was considered rotary.
If there is room behind your above deck post you could but a couple components in a sealed box and tie with a belt or line to the rudder post.
It makes sense that X5 perf could not be quite as good without a rudder ref. The SW has to assume a certain amount of control input causes a known amount of rudder movement. Under heavy load this assumption likely breaks down. The pilot doesn't realize that its command to react to a sudden yaw shift didn't really happen so it doesn t know to push more energy into the motor to get to the desired rudder setting.
Keep us posted on the software upgrade results. I should probably do the same with mine.
Oh the survey. You could mail it to me ? I have a hard time getting to the meetings on time due to traffic from S Bay.
Are you saying RM has a new rotary ref. coming out ? They already have one, with the little arm, thought that was considered rotary.
If there is room behind your above deck post you could but a couple components in a sealed box and tie with a belt or line to the rudder post.
It makes sense that X5 perf could not be quite as good without a rudder ref. The SW has to assume a certain amount of control input causes a known amount of rudder movement. Under heavy load this assumption likely breaks down. The pilot doesn't realize that its command to react to a sudden yaw shift didn't really happen so it doesn t know to push more energy into the motor to get to the desired rudder setting.
Keep us posted on the software upgrade results. I should probably do the same with mine.
Oh the survey. You could mail it to me ? I have a hard time getting to the meetings on time due to traffic from S Bay.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
No, I bought another RM rotary reference on E-Bay recently. Your explanation makes a lot of sense so now I'm leaning towards re-installing it. It screws to the top of the tiller's base on the axis of the rudder post, with the rod fixed to the cockpit side. It's fixed on the centerline and the tiller turns underneath it (it's wired in reverse). It worked fine for several years (and two SHTP's) but I kicked the rod pretty hard a couple of times and was always afraid I'd break it.
Do you still live on Country Lane?
Do you still live on Country Lane?
brianb
Olson 34 Driver
Hi Bob,
THat mounting sounds like a good approach, except the kicking part. Maybe fix the reference arm with two small bunji's or some type of spring ? If you hit it somehow nothing breaks ?
My address is NOT on country lane. I will try to send you a PM,if this board has the function.
Brian
THat mounting sounds like a good approach, except the kicking part. Maybe fix the reference arm with two small bunji's or some type of spring ? If you hit it somehow nothing breaks ?
My address is NOT on country lane. I will try to send you a PM,if this board has the function.
Brian