Around the World from West coast?

[jamottep]

So I had to transfer paperwork to me when I bought Double Espresso. No biggie, CA registered title transfer, a bunch of forms (signed by both parties) and voila: my boat, my MMSI, my EPIRB, my VHF, etc.

The problem I have with CaB (Changabang) is that (from what I gathered here and there):

1. I'm not a US citizen (Can't USCG document CaB);
2. CA will require the boat to be CA registered after 3 months;
3. France will not allow you to transfer an MMSI obtained from the French government to a non-French flagged boat;
4. Hardware manufacturer sometimes only allow you to set the MMSI once yourself (after it's dealer intervention);
5. The same applies to the EPIRB identification (I think that the first 3 digits represent the country, which is where the response center will go for details about the boat).

I think my plan will be:

0. Radiate Cab from France;
1. Register CaB with CA DMV;
2. Confirm where to update hardware;
3. Get new MMSI and identifiers where required.

I think the above will allow me to use the existing AIS transponder. I'm not sure about the other satellite-based emergency devices.

I do have a "Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit" from the FCC. I do not think I require more for the type of VHF I will have aboard CaB.

I think the above will still allow emergency services to operate as they should.

As usual, I'm a newbie, trying to make a plan. Feel free to course correct

Thinking of it ... There may be another plan ... right before leaving I switch the flag back to France ... and voila all is good

P.S.: the radar was replaced for the Route du Rhum but I guess not updated with French authorities (good catch

 

[Dazzler]

PJ, I would guess you have already considered registering/documenting the boat and getting the radio station license in the country of your citizenship (Belgium?). It’s something to seriously consider.

One of your future challenges is that the State of California is going to want to collect taxes: “Use Tax” @ ~9.5% of the purchase price. And if the boat is still in California on January 1st, 2021 you will be hit up for Property Taxes. When you get the boat to San Diego you might want to just go to Ensenada, Mexico to do your preparations.

Otherwise, your plan to do CA DMV registration and FCC Ship Station License could work (for new MMSI). You got my curiosity enough to look at the FCC website and I did not see anything about citizenship related to a Ship Station License, but I certainly could have missed that.

To be clear, the “Ship Station” needs to be licensed (in your case) AND the operator needs to have the Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit that you already have.

 

[AlanH]

Philippe, this may have been mentioned earlier in the thread, but the Sugar Dock in Richmond might be a good place to berth Changabang, if you're going to have her in California. Bob and I sailed up there on Saturday and there's 40 feet of water all the way up the channel...or as far as we went anyway, which was about 200 yards from the dock. It's a bit tight in there, you'll be motoring in and out.

 

[AntsUiga]

It seems there is no lack of suggestions and I will add another. Between purchase and importing considerations, California sales tax and personal property tax, registrations for safety notifications, ownership and protection of the boat value, and future plans (keep or sell), a discussion with a maritime attorney may be useful. There are implications that extend past CA or US jurisdictions.

The only maritime attorney I know was also the first female solo sailor from CA to Japan and quite active with the SSS in the 80's and 90's. I am not sure if she is actively practicing, but if you have an interest, I can check with her.

Ants

 

[jamottep]

PJ, I would guess you have already considered registering/documenting the boat and getting the radio station license in the country of your citizenship (Belgium?). It’s something to seriously consider.

I think the starting point for all options is that I cannot USCG document CaB and that CA requires that I register the boat within 120 days. It also dawned on me that CaB weighs less than 5 net tons, which is the other pre-req for USCG documentation

Next is that I don't think I can wear two flags (i.e. French and CA DMV).

I just tried to register the EPIRB on NOAA and:

Beacon ID Error:Only USA-coded beacons may be registered with NOAA. Please check the first 3 characters of your beacon ID. If the ID you entered is the correct ID for the beacon, please stop the registration process and contact the NOAA Beacon Registration Database team via phone or email (see “Contact Us” at the bottom of this page).

And the French say: must be French-flagged ... Stuck I am ... I've reached out to Larry Payne who had written an article about EPIRBs in Latitude 38: https://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/why-you-should-have-an-epirb/

 

[jamottep]

The only maritime attorney I know was also the first female solo sailor from CA to Japan and quite active with the SSS in the 80's and 90's. I am not sure if she is actively practicing, but if you have an interest, I can check with her.

Ants

Thanks! Wouldn't hurt If she's open to chat please let me know.

 

[DaveH]

I think the starting point for all options is that I cannot USCG document CaB and that CA requires that I register the boat within 120 days. It also dawned on me that CaB weighs less than 5 net tons, which is the other pre-req for USCG documentation

[/url]

The Net Tonnage the CG is looking for is not a weight, but a volume calculation... generally speaking most vessels over 25-30' measure over 5 net tons so far as the USCG is concerned.
DH

 

[sleddog]

Documentation is not an option for non-citizens. The below was written by a maritime lawyer in Marlin Magazine in 2017. I do not vouch for its accuracy. I've seen more than a few vessels in this situation "fly under the radar." Some get busted, some don't. I'm not advocating doing anything illegal.

Permit to Proceed
One misconception is that *noncitizens can get around the strict rules of Coast Guard documentation by simply state titling and registering their boats. Unfortunately, it isn’t that simple. To avoid confusion, a noncitizen’s vessel can be titled/*registered in most states, but the vessel will not have freedom of movement. United States Customs treats vessels based on their nationality. A state *registered/titled vessel does not have a “flag” or nationality, so if a vessel is not foreign flagged or documented with the Coast Guard (U.S. flagged), then it assumes the nationality of its beneficial owner. Hence, a noncitizen’s boat, if titled and registered in Florida, is considered to be a foreign vessel, and is thus treated as such. In this case, a vessel must obtain something called a “Permit to Proceed” from U.S. Customs in order to move from port to port. Failure to follow these regulations can result in fines or even seizure of the vessel itself. As such, foreign citizens typically choose to register their boats in other jurisdictions to avoid customs formalities by obtaining a U.S. cruising license.

The details are fairly basic, but this provides some insight into the complexities of vessel ownership by foreign citizens in the U.S. Every noncitizen should become familiar with the regulations prior to taking ownership of a vessel, and more often than not, the best option for a foreign citizen is to register their vessel outside the United States.

 

[jamottep]

The Net Tonnage the CG is looking for is not a weight, but a volume calculation... generally speaking most vessels over 25-30' measure over 5 net tons so far as the USCG is concerned.
DH

Thanks for clarifying. Thanks Skip for sharing that info as well.

 

[jamottep]

Based on this (and others):

http://www.allyachtregistries.com/Cruising-permits.aspx

So ... when I bought Double Espresso ... the boat automatically became Belgian flagged: a Belgian boat won the SHTP.

And I should have filed Form 1300 when I bought her, told the San Francisco port jurisdiction that I was leaving, and declared myself when I re-entered in Hawaii waters.
Or something like that ... Under the radar then.

I suspect other SHTP finishers fall under the same category

At least one lawyer wants to charge me $3000 minimum ... More research is due ... This is what I understand so far:

1. Being a CA resident I must register the boat in CA within 120 days of the donation;
2. I'm being told that the above requires that I first remove the French flag;
3. Being that I cannot document the boat with USCG (I'm not a US citizen), the boat would automatically get my citizenship, i.e. Belgian, even though the boat is NOT documented with Belgium (i.e. is it undocumented then?);
4. To move from port to port in the US I need a cruising license or similar, which I would need to renew yearly.

For now I'm going to try to transfer the French MMSI to me, as the mandated skipper of the boat. When the boat is imported in San Diego I suspect a cruising permit will be obtained but I shall confirm. That may give me a year to figure things out.

 

[Dazzler]

CA requires that I register the boat within 120 days.

On this point you need to do further research. CA does not require DMV licensing just because you are a CA resident. The state licensing requirements in the US vary by state. Unlike some state, CA does not require DMV licensing for documented vessels. I understand you can’t do USCG Documentation, but could you document the boat in Belgium, or another EU country? Then all you would need is a Cruising License.

The situation with Double Espresso was very different. Assuming DE was CA DMV licensed, you merely transferred ownership under the CA DMV. Then you went sailing and never left the US. Technically, you only traveled from one US port to another.

 

[AntsUiga]

Thanks! Wouldn't hurt If she's open to chat please let me know.

She sympathized with your situation but was not sure she had the expertise to help with the specific concerns.

From my experience let me add the following-
If you bring paperwork to register a new or used boat, the DMV will assess you sales tax unless you can show California sales tax was already paid to a CA dealer / broker. The exception is if you owned to boat / car for a period of time (3 months maybe) before you brought the boat into CA. With prior ownership for the required time, no sales tax is assessed. Depending on the amount of the potential tax, the DMV may require documentation about purchase date and entry into CA.

A boat or car / trailer bought into US will be subject to import duty (federal government). My Moore 24 and trailer was sold from CA to British Columbia. When I purchased it and brought it back, I paid import duty on the trailer since it was registered in BC. The Moore 24 was too small to require BC registration, so the customs decided it had never been formally imported to BC.

A cruising permit is a good idea if you can establish Belgium registry or keep the French registry.

Ants

 

[solosailor]

That DMV visit with sales tax will be quite a hefty bill.

 

[jamottep]

Well, I feel like history is repeating itself. I got a call this morning from my boss that my position was eliminated. The same happened with my Clipper and SHTP adventures. This brings up options and concerns. The main option would be departing in 2020 instead of 2021.

For now, my mother remains the owner and I will be her mandated skipper until I can sort things out.

We had to partially dismantle the cradle to fit height and width requirements but it's on its way to Antwerp now.

 

[Philpott]

Well, I feel like history is repeating itself. I got a call this morning from my boss that my position was eliminated. The same happened with my Clipper and SHTP adventures. This brings up options and concerns. The main option would be departing in 2020 instead of 2021.

For now, my mother remains the owner and I will be her mandated skipper until I can sort things out.

Uh
Brilliant! Oh, I mean, too bad. Maybe now you have time to 1) provision 2) prepare 3) leave w the SSS Transpac fleet, 4) re- provision in Hanalei Bay without disembarking. ?

 

[solosailor]

No re-provisioning during an unassisted RTW.

 

[Philpott]

No re-provisioning during an unassisted RTW.

Anchoring? Visiting? Official SSS mai tai?

 

[solosailor]

Anchoring yes.... but if you were attempting a RTW would you go out of your way and stop for no reason? Have the record in question for any reason would be a big risk.

 

[jamottep]

Friday news: https://pjsails.com/cradled-again-waiting-by-the-quayside/

 

[AlanH]

Well, I feel like history is repeating itself. I got a call this morning from my boss that my position was eliminated. The same happened with my Clipper and SHTP adventures. This brings up options and concerns. The main option would be departing in 2020 instead of 2021.

For now, my mother remains the owner and I will be her mandated skipper until I can sort things out.

We had to partially dismantle the cradle to fit height and width requirements but it's on its way to Antwerp now.

======

Jobs....when you have them, you have income and no time....when you don't have them, you have no income, but lots of time.

ugh