Fleet check-in idea

[BobJ]

Since I sidetracked this anyway . . .

How is your AP head mounted? The newer ST-60 "Plus" instruments came with gaskets to go between the instruments and the bulkhead. I got an extra one and installed it under the older AP head (a 6001). The instruments are not flush mounted but still protrude inside the cabin (so they are protected but can ventilate).

Sailing home from the SHTP in 2006, there were times when a regular stream of water was running over the instrument heads but they didn't seem to be affected. Maybe this is something that Raymarine has improved?

 

[Hesperus]

Pacific Seafarers Net

The Pacific Seafarers Net operates on Ham channels, so, if the SSS wanted to use them for check-in, Ham licences would be required.

 

[tiger beetle]

...perhaps during the boat inspection the skipper should be required to demonstrate the use of the SSB...

Yep, that's typically part of the equipment inspection:

1. do you have an SSB?
2. can you bring up WWV?

If the skipper can do that then it is demonstrated that the radio works and the skipper has at least a limited knowledge of how the radio is operated.

- rob/beetle

 

[Alchera]

Yep, that's typically part of the equipment inspection:

1. do you have an SSB?
2. can you bring up WWV?

If the skipper can do that then it is demonstrated that the radio works and the skipper has at least a limited knowledge of how the radio is operated.

- rob/beetle

Unfortunately, that's not enough knowledge to actually successfully operate the radio at checkin. I would go a little further, make them dial in one of the SSS frequencies and show that it is operating as a simplex channel on upper sideband. If there was an easy way to actually make them contact a remote station, I would require that as well, but I don't know how to make that practical. Unless anyone else has any ideas.

- Mark/Alchera

 

[BobJ]

I'll be sending you guys an e-mail so we can get together about this.

My main concern about knowing that a boat's SSB works is that any backup means of making roll-call remains a backup, thus keeping the Comm boat's job manageable.

Is it possible to borrow one of those SW(?) meters so the inspector could see what was reaching the SSB antenna?

Contacting a remote station would be great but would probably require getting the boat away from shore. Perhaps that could be combined with an e-rudder test, but it's putting quite a burden on the inspectors.

 

[brianb]

Pacific check in from shore

The Pacific Seafarers Net operates on Ham channels, so, if the SSS wanted to use them for check-in, Ham licences would be required.

Correct. I was using a very successful network as an example of working communication from ship to shore with the pacific basin ringed in shore stations all manned with volunteers. SSB marine could accomplish the same thing.

The club might give this consideration, as a trial maybe. A hybrid approach could be used. If shore stations are successful in copying positions the comm boat need not take the full burden.

Brian

 

[brianb]

I'll be sending you guys an e-mail so we can get together about this.

My main concern about knowing that a boat's SSB works is that any backup means of making roll-call remains a backup, thus keeping the Comm boat's job manageable.

Is it possible to borrow one of those SW(?) meters so the inspector could see what was reaching the SSB antenna?

Contacting a remote station would be great but would probably require getting the boat away from shore. Perhaps that could be combined with an e-rudder test, but it's putting quite a burden on the inspectors.

How many inspectors do you have ? A simple detector could be made to assure energy is getting to the antenna. It could be used with a cheap digital volt meter to measure antenna current.

Actually one antenna tuner brand recommends testing their tuner with a 100 watt light bulb clipped to the antenna. And I have to say it works every time.

 

[BobJ]

How many inspectors do you have?

None, but then we don't have any entries either.

Now that LongPac is "in the books" things are happening behind the scenes for SH TransPac. Maybe it's time for an early-interest poll to see how many of you are seriously thinking about it.

The first poll will be anonymous but the next one will include contracts to sign.

 

[Eric Thomas]

Check ins and Tracking

Please have people prove they can use the SSB and run some simple tests. Time and again people neglect to get to know their new gear. Rob had to show me how to use my radio at my inspection, luckily it worked well! On Tracking, its simple and actually cheap, we just did a week long race with ION Earth, worked great good service, and Hundreds of Thousands of page hits. Granted as a racing participant I never looked at it, but all the friends and family do. These are the people who actually cut one the slack and mow the lawn while we are gone sailing. You have to do something for the fans!

 

[John Hayward]

Hi All,

As to checking SSB operation and knowledge, I can offer a possible solution. I have a shore station in the mountains south of Livermore and we could set a schedule as we get close to departure time and stations could check in/chat with me from their boats and I could keep a record of who checked in/signal strength/etc. and pass it along to the inspectors as proof of SSB operation. This would also allow for some stations that have no familiarity with talking on the radio to practice and they could try changing settings/adding grounds/etc. and see it that made their signal better or worse. This is something that would not be appropriate during the race. Stations would be required to be disconnected from shore power when checking in to make this test realistic.

Also, I was comm boat for about half of the last race and might be for some of this race, and I think if the comm boat needs to check email before the check in's it doesn't matter if there is one email from the race committee or 5 from individual boats. You get the email(s) and enter them in the log and read them back during the SSB check in period. It seems that boats emailing their position directly to the comm boat eliminates any shoreside participation at specific times twice a day which might make getting shoreside volunteers easier.

For Rob, My SSB crapped out day 2 on the way home and I used the sat phone with the AirMail software to email from then on. It is *very* fast, even compared to a Pactor 3 modem with a good signal. I will have 2 SSB's this trip in addition to the sat phone though as I really enjoy talking to the other boats on the way and missed it on the way home.

John
Dream Chaser

 

[Critter]

Can anyone recommend a primer on this SSB mumbo jumbo? Either a website or a not-too-long book? Mark wrote "... show that it is operating as a simplex channel on upper sideband" which is worse than Greek to me since I know a little Greek.

The business about lining the bilge with copper foil makes about as much sense to me as killing a chicken and sprinkling its blood.

Thanks for any pointers ...
Max

 

[BobJ]

RobT and I met last night to hammer out the rest of the seminar schedule. Like last time, there will be a seminar on offshore communications where SSB's (among other things) will be discussed. When do you plan to install your radio?

FWIW, I'm not sure I know what Mark is talking about either, and I made every SSB check-in with a good signal. Also, you'll probably need some copper foil but you won't have to line the bilge with it. Do you have access to your keel bolts?

 

[Critter]

RobT and I met last night to hammer out the rest of the seminar schedule. Like last time, there will be a seminar on offshore communications where SSB's (among other things) will be discussed. When do you plan to install your radio?

FWIW, I'm not sure I know what Mark is talking about either, and I made every SSB check-in with a good signal. Also, you'll probably need some copper foil but you won't have to line the bilge with it. Do you have access to your keel bolts?

Thanks Bob. I plan to install an SSB as soon as I have any money, which may not be in time for the 2010 race since I'm currently down to working 3-4 days a week.

Yes, I have access to my keel bolts and I understand that may be an option. But I like to know something about the theory behind what I'm doing rather than just following instructions.

Max

 

[BobJ]

There are two or three reprinted articles that cover SSB's pretty well, which get handed out every time we have the seminars. I'll scan them and create a link so you can access them (now that I know how to do that). They've been duplicated/circulated so many times that they're probably "in the public domain" for copyright purposes.

I did my own installation from those articles and tips from this board. There are just a couple of things you need from outside sources (other than the radio and tuner). It's not a bad project really, and very gratifying when you turn it on for the first time and hear people chatting from all over the Western Hemisphere. Knowing you have a good transmitted signal is harder, but it sounds like John H has a setup to help test that out (thanks John).

 

[tiger beetle]

FWIW, I'm not sure I know what Mark is talking about either

To understand Mark's comment it's helpful to understand that SSB radio operates on the sideband of a given frequency, not on the carrier frequency. As a result you can squeeze more 'bands' into a given channel space by utilizing upper or lower sideband, rather than the entire band; the radio also consumes less electrical power by only broadcasting half of the signal. That's why the radio is called 'Single Side Band' - it operates on one side of the band (and yes, you can choose which side to operate on).

So it's helpful to know, for a given frequency you wish to communicate on, are you going to operate on upper sideband, or lower sideband? There are conventions in place as to which frequencies will operate on which sideband - those are the conventions that made it possible for you to use the radio without knowing about this stuff, and you got lucky.

As regards simplex: simplex means that you talk and listen on the same frequency, like a VHF radio does. SSB radios also support the concept of duplex - you may talk on one frequency and listen on another frequency, much like a telephone works. Again there are conventions regarding SSB numbered channels that assign the channel as duplex or simplex. Those conventions, and the fact that somebody set up the radio's internal channel memory, let you use the radio withing knowing this, and you got lucky.

Upshot: it's helpful to have at least rudimentary knowledge regarding the equipment you have, or else you can wind up being unable to use the radio if you don't realize that you can be on the wrong sideband, or have punched up one half of a simplex channel frequency without realizing that there's a second half you also need to set. If you don't even know such a thing is possible you would never think to look for the problem And that's definitely no fun on your own 800 miles offshore.

- rob/beetle

 

[BobJ]

My ICOM-M802 was programmed well enough "out-of-the-box" that I was able to go to the check-in frequencies, hit the "Tune" button (for the automatic tuner to adjust the antenna) and transmit/receive fine. Since I installed it early and learned how to use the functions I needed, I wouldn't say I just got lucky.

You would need to be more careful if you bought a used SSB and tuner off of E-Bay, Craigslist, etc. It would be worth it to have Don Melcher (HF Radio Onboard) or similar person test the radio and do any possible/necessary programming to use it sucessfully during the race.

I'll take a risk and say that this is probably sufficient for our race (Rob and others may not agree). If you are planning to spend more time offshore cruising, etc. then a more detailed understanding of the radio's operation would be necessary.

 

[Hesperus]

Max,

I know that time is short, but you might consider contacting a local Ham radio club and see if they offer classes in preparation for taking the Ham license exam. If the instructors are good you will learn a lot about radios and related jargon. You will also get a ham license so that you can use the ham frequencies if your radio is up to it.

Paul Woodward
s/v Hesperus

 

[jakmang]

2012 Fleet Checkin Ideas

It is probably a little bit late for 2010, but I think future races should think about technology that is a couple years old already.

1) Use of DSC-MMSI via SSB and/or VHF. This would allow one button try and retry of broadcast of position information to one or more known base stations or comm boats. This is much simpler and more reliable than hand tuning. Data would be sent in a digital burst. The GPS information can and should be automatically wired to the radio. The downside is the requirement of a DSC- ready radio. Major models in the last couple of years have this.

2) Use of a satellite tracker such as SPOT messenger service. This is fairly cheap - $150 for a years service. Rates could be negotiated for a fleet.

Cheers,
-jak

 

[John Hayward]

As to SPOT messenger, it works great if we all want to turn around about two thirds of the way to HI cause it stops working about there according to their maps and my experience with it last year. Great for letting friends and family know where you are coastal cruising however.

John
Dream Chaser

 

[Matt]

Spot vs. Transponders

I have the 25 satellite transponders that were used for the LongPac and EYC Coastal Cup in 2009.

I believe we are still planning on using these in the TransPac to test the technology and make the best use of the SSS investment depending on the costs and the interest of the racers.

The cost of operating these is $20/year + transmission costs (.10/ping) and they use the same GlobalStar satellite network as the SPOT. We have not yet made a determination of costs for using these in the TranPac since there is a cost associated with setting up the maps and database for the race.

We are interested in how well the SPOT and other GlobalStar land based satellite technologies work out to Hawaii. The technology is improving but, for our application, is still in an experimental phase. Your experience with the SPOT out to Hawaii is relevant. I believe Ruben also had some strange experiences with the SPOT and relatives wanting to know where he was when it wasn't working.

I would not rely on satellite transponders as the mechanism for fleet checkin considering our experience with the LongPac this year but it would be a good way for people to follow the race online at least 3/4 of the way.

Matt