Interested in a boat for 2018 TransPac

[mike cunningham]

Mini bilge pump project update: I've ordered the mini pump, mini check valve and 2 meter of tubing, all for less than $10. The only part missing is DC power extension cables to the fuse panel and a plan to put it all together. I'm thinking that the mini pump will be in the bilge, pushing water through the check valve and discharging into a small container inside, which I would empty in the cockpit. It feels like one more thing to tend to but since bailing water out is a problem anyway I might as well look for some degree of automation.

PJ,

What pump did you buy? The one Bob linked to or something else? Your total expenses indicate something else. I desperately need a mini water pump to get water our of a shallow bilge area just below the prop shaft. It fills up with shaft seal leakage, not a lot of water, but when I heel it literally goes everywhere. I really want something small to help me keep this area dry(er). And yes, I plan to replace the shaft seal before the SHTP.

 

[jamottep]

PJ,

What pump did you buy?

https://m.ebay.com/itm/DC12V-3M-240...mp-Solar-56-/253130755697?txnId=2216857373015

 

[jamottep]

Although it started slowly today was a busy day. I met Joe (submarino/Archimedes) and we helped each other, getting his boat out and mine in. Of course I abused and Joe helped me up the mast too (thank you Joe). I'm glad to report that the wind vane works and I now have wind readings again! My guess: it really may have just been a matter of the locking nut coming a little loose.

After that I was really hesitant to go sailing as it was getting well in the afternoon. The prospect of testing my new #3 is what got me over and after a while I pushed off, with engine and sails, which proved to be a good thing. I had forgotten to refuel! The engine petered for a little while and I realized it was sucking the last drops so I turned it off and managed to leave under sail.

The new #3 looks good and strong. It's pretty flat. I didn't see a change in terms of boat speed. I went up Raccoon and pondered launching the spinnaker. I overcame lazyness, rigged everything and up went the .75. Somehow I struggled getting it to inflate properly but it settled after a few minutes. I jibed and had to run back because I needed more ease on the sheet (new guy). And the spinnaker wrapped around the forestay. Thanks to beginner's luck it unwrapped itself. I did get just over 10 kts of boat speed.

Then things got a little exciting. I wanted to point a little higher to make way towards the marina. And yeah, you guessed it, I got my first round up under spinnaker. I released the vang, the mainsheet and started pumping the tiller, to no effect. I let the boat come up, get some speed and pumped again. And I was lucky enough that it worked. I put the autopilot back on but I must have not hit the right button in all that excitement because the boat went right back into a windward broach. The same remedy yielded the same result. It wasn't so windy that there was water in the boat; it was barely heeling. At least that's what I remember.

To take the spinnaker down I did a letterbox drop (another good outcome of chatting with Joe), which proved really easy: jib up, deep downwind, pull the sheet through the boom and mainsail foot, ease the guy, ease the sheet and bring the spinnaker's foot through, ease the halyard and quickly pull it down.

I sailed back to the marina and made my first return under sail: all went well and the SUP paddle came in handy again.

As usual at BYC hoisting the boat out took a lot of time; that crane is not friendly to singlehanders.

All in all it was a great few hours of sailing. I'm not sure why but I felt good on Double Espresso. I'm guessing that the absence of offshore swell has something to do with it. Sailing in Santa Cruz was way more rough. It requires constant attention to personal safety when moving around the boat. Not so much in the Bay ... Morale of that story: I need to get offshore sooner than later or risk getting comfortable!

Would anyone else be interested in doing a stint to the Farallon islands? Leaving early ...

 

[jamottep]

I knew I forgot something: I also did a cleaning job on the traveller, which wasn't sliding well anymore. I cleaned the track with denatured alcohol, then soap and water; I applied one drop and the balls started rolling again.

 

[jamottep]

I've been fiddling with SailGrib. It's readily apparent that these apps are built be engineers not designers. It's not all bad; I've seen worse from companies with deep pockets but nothing is intuitive, at least not to this first time weather routing user.

A few things I did:

1. Download offline charts for HI and CA regions;
2. Try grib files with wind/wave (they seem really big);
3. Getting lost in the myriad a menus.

As someone said earlier all this needs to be fine tuned on land

I'm going to re-read advice on weather routing for the SHTP.

 

[The Smokester]

I've been fiddling with SailGrib. It's readily apparent that these apps are built be engineers not designers. It's not all bad; I've seen worse from companies with deep pockets but nothing is intuitive, at least not to this first time weather routing user.

A few things I did:

1. Download offline charts for HI and CA regions;
2. Try grib files with wind/wave (they seem really big);
3. Getting lost in the myriad a menus.

As someone said earlier all this needs to be fine tuned on land

I'm going to re-read advice on weather routing for the SHTP.

If you think that's hard to learn, try Expedition, the gold standard in weather routing.

 

[jamottep]

If you think that's hard to learn, try Expedition, the gold standard in weather routing.

Making small progress with SailGrib ... good!

I spent a few hours at the boat, watching the charger recharge batteries, packing out the new #3 to cut the bottom part of the bolt rope so that it exits the foil guide (so I can put a new in). With the hard rain I saw water coming in through the mast boot, not bad though, dripping. I can't wait to setup that mini bilge pump and see if it'll take care of the bilge, keeping it empty down to 1/2 inch, when heeling 25. I did an inventory, took a lot of pictures and did a couple movies to document the boat to sell it.

 

[JimQuanci]

Be careful of the SH beartrap... gadgets and goodies...keep your priorities straight.

Philippe... be careful... dont fall into the trap of spending time on nice things unless you are rock solid on the necessities... electric pump is trivia... amp meter is trivia...connecting all electronics is trivia and risks creating a fragile system where one bad connector nukes everything... and seeing you are still unsure of basic sailhandling while researching trivia items. SH folks tend to love their tech and gadgets, I do, but this is a trap.

Maybe you have all this sorted already... in which case great and just sail more.

Priorities... in priority order...

1
Rock solid electrical power - so you can sleep with Auto driving. It can be sunless the first few days so solar panel may give little power while beam reaching Auto is pulling max current of likely 4-7 amps. What is your backup power? A spare panel? A small honda generator? You need backup power.

2
Two rock solid autopilots. If your primary fails its likely due to strain... so your backup needs to be just as solid. Ram above deck? Needs a spray and sun cover or it will cook and fail.

3
Sail sail sail with Auto with the chute up. Make all the learnings and mistakes now (before May so you still have time to adjust). Nothing like banging 10 jibes in a row in a decent breeze by yourself (in a breeze... in the slot... not in calm raccoon straits). You want to not just know how to do it - but be able to do it at night sleep deprived.

Now we get to things you want to do but is more about really racing and maybe comfort...

4
Canvas cover or dodger on main hatch. When you have 6 inches of green water across the deck, the best hatches can still let gallons of water in.

5
Got all the above solid? Then navigation. For starters a chartplotter on deck hooked to your AIS. Sorry that PC below deck is in the wrong place when you are dodging ships in the dark or fog - or trying to find a friend in the water (hey a 5" chartplotter is under $500) - plus will help you steer straight. Oh did they tell you touch screens dont work when your fingers are wet?

6
Pay Commanders Marine a $100 for a professional routing. Sorry but using routing software will take a 50 to 100 hours of practice to use right - plus taking a bit of weather training to be effective.

7
With all the above checked off, sail some more. All the spring ocean races... Lightship, Duxship, DH Lightship and Farallones, crewed Farallones.

8
Okay so you want to do software routing? If all the above is done and well in hand, go for it. If you want... happy to help you get up to speed if you have the above well in hand (polars, gribs, identifying fragile routes, etc).

What else...
Sort out your sleep patterns if you can... to avoid getting fatigued early... being fatigued makes for bad decisions. Little things can help like stop with caffeine a week or two before the race. Sleep 10 hours per day the last few days before the race (yes not easy..
But do your best) Take a nap as soon as you clear the vessel traffic area... take another nap when you clear the Farallones.

And stop to smell the roses (the sea)... the nights are unforgettable... beautiful. The Milky Way...

 

[jamottep]

Philippe... be careful... dont fall into the trap of spending time on nice things unless you are rock solid on the necessities... electric pump is trivia... amp meter is trivia...connecting all electronics is trivia and risks creating a fragile system where one bad connector nukes everything... and seeing you are still unsure of basic sailhandling while researching trivia items. SH folks tend to love their tech and gadgets, I do, but this is a trap.

What have I done to get Jim's attention?!?! S**t s**t s**t!

Kidding aside ... Thanks for the nudge. I'll admit again that I'm not an expert sailor. I'm barely a beginner, who's enough of a fool to teach ASA101 to newcomers. I've also said before that I'm a bit of a dummy who needs to be told/showed what to do. "Monkey sees monkey does" very much applies to this man. Maybe that'll be my boat name. I am struggling with sail evolution (poling out jib) and learning others (spinnaker). I'm barely an 80% sailor and, even though this is a race and I'll be in company of some serious sailors who know their boat inside out, I have no expectation for myself, besides getting to the finish line (regardless of what I read in Andrew's book on this topic). I have limited experience and this event is part of hopefully a longer learning curve to get me places. I do welcome any help though, including used equipment that makes sense or donated time

1 Rock solid electrical power - so you can sleep with Auto driving. It can be sunless the first few days so solar panel may give little power while beam reaching Auto is pulling max current of likely 4-7 amps. What is your backup power? A spare panel? A small honda generator? You need backup power.

I have two 92 Amph batteries and a 100 W solar panel. Do I feel 100% confident this will be enough? No. Do I have a backup if I drain all batteries and can't charge? No. I won't spend more on a generator and do not like the idea of having fuel on board. I was looking at a small wind turbine but was discouraged by others. I looked into water power generator (drag a prop) but price is prohibitive. That leaves one alternative: a 3rd battery. I thought of getting a separate Li battery just for the auto-pilot. What do you think?

I was able to balance my energy budget but that's just a spreadsheet, which everyone knows can be adjusted to say whatever one wishes. If I play a worst case scenario (auto-pilot 24 hr on drawing 4 Amps then my batteries will be empty in less than 48 hrs).

2 Two rock solid autopilots. If your primary fails its likely due to strain... so your backup needs to be just as solid. Ram above deck? Needs a spray and sun cover or it will cook and fail.

Well, I have two. I'm not sure that a Raymarine ST-1000+ qualifies as rock solid. I may have a spare Pelagic tiller wand.

3 Sail sail sail with Auto with the chute up. Make all the learnings and mistakes now (before May so you still have time to adjust). Nothing like banging 10 jibes in a row in a decent breeze by yourself (in a breeze... in the slot... not in calm raccoon straits). You want to not just know how to do it - but be able to do it at night sleep deprived.

Now we get to things you want to do but is more about really racing and maybe comfort...

I am working on that. But maybe I won't go into the slot. I don't see myself flying the spinnaker in 25 kts of breeze. Not yet. I'd rather be slow than break stuff at this time. Don't take me wrong; I will try to bolster my skills single handing the spinnaker but it'll be baby steps and if it blows 20kt all the way down maybe they'll just be a good bag to rest on when tired. I do love seeing the spinnaker fly and enjoy my time every time it's up.

4 Canvas cover or dodger on main hatch. When you have 6 inches of green water across the deck, the best hatches can still let gallons of water in.

I have that ... Pfeww, at least one pass!

5 Got all the above solid? Then navigation. For starters a chartplotter on deck hooked to your AIS. Sorry that PC below deck is in the wrong place when you are dodging ships in the dark or fog - or trying to find a friend in the water (hey a 5" chartplotter is under $500) - plus will help you steer straight. Oh did they tell you touch screens dont work when your fingers are wet?

At this time my budget is cooked, burned. I'm not contemplating a $500 chart plotter. I'm not challenging the benefit of having one. What I'll have is SailGrib on a Nexus 9 Android tablet (with laptop and cell phone as backup) and paper charts. As everybody knows ... None gets wet fingers on an Olson 30! Maybe if there's another deep promo I'll get a handheld chart plotter.

6 Pay Commanders Marine a $100 for a professional routing. Sorry but using routing software will take a 50 to 100 hours of practice to use right - plus taking a bit of weather training to be effective.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've reached out to them ...

7 With all the above checked off, sail some more. All the spring ocean races... Lightship, Duxship, DH Lightship and Farallones, crewed Farallones.

I am only planning to do the SSS races (again $) ... And that's if I do get a life raft in time. I will go out though, for sure.

What else...
Sort out your sleep patterns if you can... to avoid getting fatigued early... being fatigued makes for bad decisions. Little things can help like stop with caffeine a week or two before the race. Sleep 10 hours per day the last few days before the race (yes not easy.. But do your best) Take a nap as soon as you clear the vessel traffic area... take another nap when you clear the Farallones.

And stop to smell the roses (the sea)... the nights are unforgettable... beautiful. The Milky Way...

I stopped caffeine a while ago, just for this stuff ... But sugar is much harder, especially chocolate!

If my experience with Clipper is any indication ... it's more likely going to smell poorly in Double Espresso after a few days, especially if I get a knock down while taking a dump

I very much enjoyed the nights during my qualifying cruise and look forward to more nights at sea.

Ok so I was looking into a mini bilge pump because during the first seminar I attended someone (George?) mentioned that Stan H.'s advice to him for small boat racers was: stay warm, stay dry.

 

[oregonian]

Hello jamottep, In your last post you mentioned that you did not want to carry a generator because you did not want to carry any fuel. It is my understanding that the rating for an Olson 30 of 99 is the "outboard " rating. That means an outboard must be carried along with 10 hours worth of fuel capable of pushing the boat at 90% of its hull speed. And, of course, an outboard must have an outboard bracket to mount to the boat. That had been my understanding. If I am wrong please correct me as I haven't kept up fully on the rules lately. Perhaps Bob could correct me. I'm well aware that some boats have sailed with that rating while violating the rule, perhaps in ignorance or error. Please correct me if my understanding is incorrect. Thanks

 

[BobJ]

One of the great things about the SHTP (in my view) is that it can be raced without an engine. The requirement for an engine is only for local races in the Gulf of the Farallones - the OYRA series, SSS's SHF and HMB races, etc. Here's that rule:

"A boat shall have a mechanical propulsion system that is quickly available and capable of driving the boat at a minimum speed in knots equivalent to the square root of LWL in feet (1.8 times the square root of the waterline in meters) for 4 hours."

The issue for the SHTP is that when a boat's PHRF rating certificate states the boat has an outboard (but it doesn't), an equivalent amount of weight should be carried. In my opinion, that extra weight need not be carried on the transom since the outboard is not required to be mounted. I suppose weight should also be carried to substitute for a fuel tank and fuel but I don't know how much - I leave that question for those at a higher pay grade. Like George. George gets paid a lot more than I do.

 

[Lanikai]

Maybe if there's another deep promo I'll get a handheld chart plotter.

Don't forget Not-so-Strictly-Sail show in late April. There are usually a few vendors there with some loss-leading deals on handheld VHFs and chartplotters. Personally I can't imagine going as far offshore as you'll be without at least one basic, waterproof handheld GPS and an army of AA batteries in a watertight container. My own phone and tablet are barely reliable on land!
One ill-timed slip of the laptop/tablet/phone off the chart table and into your bilge puddle, or rain squall while you're napping with the hatch open, and then, well...
I'm sure you can find people here willing to lend stuff.

 

[WBChristie]

One of the great things about the SHTP (in my view) is that it can be raced without an engine. The requirement for an engine is only for local races in the Gulf of the Farallones - the OYRA series, SSS's SHF and HMB races, etc. Here's that rule:

"A boat shall have a mechanical propulsion system that is quickly available and capable of driving the boat at a minimum speed in knots equivalent to the square root of LWL in feet (1.8 times the square root of the waterline in meters) for 4 hours."

The issue for the SHTP is that when a boat's PHRF rating certificate states the boat has an outboard (but it doesn't), an equivalent amount of weight should be carried. In my opinion, that extra weight need not be carried on the transom since the outboard is not required to be mounted. I suppose weight should also be carried to substitute for a fuel tank and fuel but I don't know how much - I leave that question for those at a higher pay grade. Like George. George gets paid a lot more than I do.

Nice red herring there Bob. It has nothing to do with engine requirements, and everything to do with PHRF. The NC PHRF guidelines state:

Engine
Do you have an inboard, outboard, or no engine at all?

One would assume that on applying for a PHRF cert that if you didn't have any engine at all, you would state NONE and the certificate would be adjusted accordingly.
The minutes from the Jan 2018 NCPHRF meeting show the following:

NEW BUSINESS/FROM THE OFFICE/FROM LAST MEETING:
DW Rating Shift/Modifications.
Jim Antrim talked about the work he’s done over the last few months tweaking the DW rating
formulas. The new formulas change the weight of the SA/D and D/WL ratios so they are more fair.
Running the new calculations on previous Pac Cup races resulted in a tighter spread of the
corrected times, which everyone was in favor of. Jim will work with George & Laura to get the
new calculations into the PHRF DB. Laura will re-issue 2018 PHRF Certificates already processed
so that the new DW ratings will be reflected on 2018 PHRF Certificates.
Rules & Guidelines re-write
Will table this topic untill Brooks is present.
OWNER NAME BOAT NAME CLASS/MODEL
Phillipe Jamotte Double Espresso Olson 30 OB
Question from the office: Olson 30 OB doing the STP- if they leave their outboard at home does
their certificate need to be modified to show the engine is not on board?
Answer: YES, he should update his certificate to show “none” for the engine.

So, we expect to see an outboard on Phillipes O30 and gas in the can.

 

[BobJ]

The SHTP does not require an engine. I hope it never does.

Phillipe can declare no engine and PHRF might adjust his rating. If they do, precedent suggests he offer compensating weight. There is absolutely no reason for him to take an engine and fuel if he doesn't intend to use it.

If you think my response is a red herring you don't understand how this works.
.

 

[oregonian]

Hello again jamottep, Bob, and WBChristie, thanks for some of the clarification, but I see that the rule, as written, makes no mention of "local races only". Is that aspect just a long standing , accepted, Rumor? WBChristie, you say "so we expect to see an outboard on phillipes O30 and gas in the can". You forgot "and the outboard bracket on the stern ". Thanks again for the clarification. I've fallen behind on my rules knowledge as I've kept my hand on the tiller and away from the mouse. Thanks again

 

[WBChristie]

The SHTP does not require an engine. I hope it never does.

Phillipe can declare no engine and PHRF might adjust his rating. If they do, precedent suggests he offer compensating weight. There is absolutely no reason for him to take an engine and fuel if he doesn't intent to use it.

If you think my response is a red herring you don't understand how this works.

Right. There is absolutely no reason for Phillipe to take an engine if he doesnt want to.

 

[BobJ]

Correct. He just needs to declare that on his certificate. Your point?

 

[BobJ]

Hello again jamottep, Bob, and WBChristie, thanks for some of the clarification, but I see that the rule, as written, makes no mention of "local races only". Is that aspect just a long standing , accepted, Rumor? WBChristie, you say "so we expect to see an outboard on phillipes O30 and gas in the can". You forgot "and the outboard bracket on the stern ". Thanks again for the clarification. I've fallen behind on my rules knowledge as I've kept my hand on the tiller and away from the mouse. Thanks again

I guess you guys don't do much racing. Each race Organizing Authority writes a Notice of Race and states which rule set they're requiring. OYRA, for example, requires the NorCalORC equipment set, from which I quoted the engine requirement. However that rule set DOES NOT APPLY to the SHTP. There is nothing in the SHTP's NOR or SER that requires an engine. May it always be so.

 

[WBChristie]

Correct. He just needs to declare that on his certificate. Your point?

Too funny.

 

[BobJ]

Gary, read the rules for the SHTP and tell me where I'm wrong.
.