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New Boat 4 Sled
- Thread starter sleddog
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Tchoupitoulas
New member
Speaking of hard chines... I think Starbuck will start carrying the e rudder for local ocean races. And still looking at what is an appropriate anchor for the NCORC MEL. Thoughts for 4500lb Starbuck?
tiger beetle
N/M 45 Tiger Beetle
If you want the lightest anchor for use in offshore sandy/muddy bottoms, I'd look at Fortress - make sure you get the crown plates - the original Fortress anchor had these an option and the anchor doesn't work without them (tips won't dig in).
An FX-7 ought to work in benign conditions (e.g., no wind, you're using the anchor as a kedge to stop you from drifting).
If, on the other hand, you want an anchor that will hold conditions so windy that it is too much to sail in, you might want an FX-23 and a lot more chain and rode.
Depth-wise, it's 150-200' feet deep all the way out to the Farallones. I'd think about 30 feet of 1/4" G4 (hi-test) chain minimum on 350' of 7/16" rode. If you are looking for a kedge anchor (no wind), then 10' chain with 3/8" or 5/16" nylon.
For the NCORC MEL, you ought to meet the rule with any anchor/chain/rode combination specified by the anchor manufacturer as sufficient for your boat length/weight. Fortress thinks you'd do fine with an FX-7 & 3/16" chain & 3/8" rode, or FX-11 & 1/4" chain & 3/8" rode.
http://www.fortressanchors.com/selection-guide/fortress
On Beetle I carry an FX-7 with 6' of 5/16" G4 chain and 300' of 3/8" line carried in a canvas bag for drifting conditions, and two really big anchors (Rocna 25 kg and Fortress FX-37) with 275' of 5/16" G4 chain and 350' of 5/8" rode to back up the chain. The big anchors are really nice when it's blowing 50+ knots through the anchorage at Drakes Bay. The chain is overkill, but I sleep better.
- rob/beetle
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
My boat is similar in size (30') and weight (5,500#) to STARBUCK. I carry an FX-11 for around here - it has WM's standard rode package: 15' of 1/4" chain and 150' of 7/16" line.
For Hawaii I also took an FX-16 - it has 25' of 5/16" chain and 200' of 1/2" line, w/tags so you can tell how much rode is out. If I do any races under the new NorCal ORC MOR's I'll swap for this larger set-up.
Not saying that's right, it's just what I have. I've anchored overnight up in Drake's Bay with the FX-11, but it didn't blow 50+ knots.
For Hawaii I also took an FX-16 - it has 25' of 5/16" chain and 200' of 1/2" line, w/tags so you can tell how much rode is out. If I do any races under the new NorCal ORC MOR's I'll swap for this larger set-up.
Not saying that's right, it's just what I have. I've anchored overnight up in Drake's Bay with the FX-11, but it didn't blow 50+ knots.
As your primary anchor, my choice would be a 22# galvanized Delta, 30' of 1/4" chain, and 200' of 1/2" Samson gold-n-braid nylon rode.
If you are blowing on a lee shore, the lightweight aluminum Fortress tends to waterski on or near the surface, and it is hard to get it down to the bottom.
The Fortress does not work well in kelpy or rocky bottoms, or hard pack sand. Nor does it reliably reset if the boat swings at anchor with a current or wind shift, (China Camp.)
If the pull is constant in one direction, you use plenty of chain, and the bottom is mud or soft sand, the Fortress is an excellent anchor. (Half Moon Bay)
WILDFLOWER, the 22' cat, uses a Delta 14 as primary, and Fortress 7 as a stern anchor/lunch hook.
If you are blowing on a lee shore, the lightweight aluminum Fortress tends to waterski on or near the surface, and it is hard to get it down to the bottom.
The Fortress does not work well in kelpy or rocky bottoms, or hard pack sand. Nor does it reliably reset if the boat swings at anchor with a current or wind shift, (China Camp.)
If the pull is constant in one direction, you use plenty of chain, and the bottom is mud or soft sand, the Fortress is an excellent anchor. (Half Moon Bay)
WILDFLOWER, the 22' cat, uses a Delta 14 as primary, and Fortress 7 as a stern anchor/lunch hook.
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On the subject of anchors and the recent tragic loss of the UNCONTROLLABLE URGE, it is a worthy reminder that when sailing offshore, the entire Pacific coast line of North America, from Baja to Alaska, is a lee shore.
Over the years, at least half a dozen SSS boats have been driven ashore for various reasons. The most recent, a few years ago, on the west (windward) side of Pt. Bonita, a total loss.
Each situation is different. But a drogue carried aboard, and practiced with, might gain time to sort things out. Drogues are cheap, lightweight, and can be used for other tasks. An old tire, or a milk crate, works as a drogue. And halves or quarters the boat speed when blowing towards trouble downwind.
Drogues are primarily towed behind the boat. Drogues do not have to be towed far astern on the leading face of the second wave. 2-3 boat lengths behind works. Lowering a drogue over the side from one of the jib sheet or halyard winches works. Just make sure there are no chafing issues.
Over the years, at least half a dozen SSS boats have been driven ashore for various reasons. The most recent, a few years ago, on the west (windward) side of Pt. Bonita, a total loss.
Each situation is different. But a drogue carried aboard, and practiced with, might gain time to sort things out. Drogues are cheap, lightweight, and can be used for other tasks. An old tire, or a milk crate, works as a drogue. And halves or quarters the boat speed when blowing towards trouble downwind.
Drogues are primarily towed behind the boat. Drogues do not have to be towed far astern on the leading face of the second wave. 2-3 boat lengths behind works. Lowering a drogue over the side from one of the jib sheet or halyard winches works. Just make sure there are no chafing issues.
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Stephen, Thinking ahead, if I were you and planning for more than the Farallones, I'd check the requirements for the SSS & PacCup races to Hawaii, and purchase an anchor and rode that would meet those requirements. I agree with Skip that we always sail on a lee shore after Pt. Bonita and that investigating another method to say away from land is a good idea. I have a line and two Costco detergent buckets with rope lanyards.
For rudder issues, I think an adequate emergency system is a must. I don't trust dragging a bucket, so I carry an entire unit around (in addition to those VHF/PLB/Strobes around my neck). I also carry a long dowel to use in driving the rudder shaft out of the rudder shaft tube in case a bent shaft/rudder is the problem (the Wylie rudder is a simple thing). The foil is about 60% of the original and in a 2"x2" aluminum assembly with a cassett that's mounted into the outboard socket and lashed to the pushpit.
On the Tuna i used a long oar strapped to the outboard. I've tested both, but not in high seas nor with the original rudder missing (so there's always been a foil pointed along the center line during the tests - does anyone remove the rudder when doing test runs?). I figure that if I'm ever down to the emergency rudder I'm not racing anymore.
For rudder issues, I think an adequate emergency system is a must. I don't trust dragging a bucket, so I carry an entire unit around (in addition to those VHF/PLB/Strobes around my neck). I also carry a long dowel to use in driving the rudder shaft out of the rudder shaft tube in case a bent shaft/rudder is the problem (the Wylie rudder is a simple thing). The foil is about 60% of the original and in a 2"x2" aluminum assembly with a cassett that's mounted into the outboard socket and lashed to the pushpit.
On the Tuna i used a long oar strapped to the outboard. I've tested both, but not in high seas nor with the original rudder missing (so there's always been a foil pointed along the center line during the tests - does anyone remove the rudder when doing test runs?). I figure that if I'm ever down to the emergency rudder I'm not racing anymore.
In a good example of cascading events, the first-to-finish and overall winner of the recent Islands Race in S. Cal. came to grief following their finish.
In the dark night, and 24 knots of wind, with other Santa Cruz 70's nipping at their heels, they crossed the finish line south of Pt. Loma, only to find the spinny halyard lock would not disengage.
Coronado Beach lay a mile ahead. As they approached with spinny flogging and staysail aloft (staysail apparently wouldn't come down either.), the spinnaker wrapped around the forestay.
They tried to start the engine. A lazy spinny sheet wrapped so tightly in the prop the strut was forced upward into the hull and the prop shaft was bent. For unknown reasons, maybe water through the hatch, the starter and/or batteries caught fire. The electrics, lights, and navigational instruments went dark. The cabin filled with smoke.
The navigator radioed on a handheld VHF for assistance. The navigator, using his handheld GPS, also called distance off beach to his experienced, 10 person, crew.
The halyard lock disengaged unexpectedly, and the spinnaker dropped 20 feet before the halyard jammed. The navigator, standing at the bottom of the companionway, had his feet tangled in the tail of the spinny halyard and was yanked upwards, feet first, , injuring his knee, before luckily hanging up without further damage.
A customs boat showed up, but didn't know what to do. The CG requested a parachute flare be fired, to pinpoint location. This was done with trepidation, as the crew had no experience firing a flare in anger in the dark. During the next few hours, the boat was kept off the beach until dawn. I'm not sure how.
4-5 hours after finishing, the Coast Guard took the SC-70 in tow. The tow line apparently damaged the bow pulpit. The carbon main was left at full hoist, in case the towline broke. The main flogged itself, doing damage, as they were towed to windward, away from the beach, and ultimately safely into San Diego Harbor. A crew was hoisted aloft, and the spinnaker was cut off the forestay.
I wasn't there, and can't answer your questions or comments. Doesn't sound fun.
In the dark night, and 24 knots of wind, with other Santa Cruz 70's nipping at their heels, they crossed the finish line south of Pt. Loma, only to find the spinny halyard lock would not disengage.
Coronado Beach lay a mile ahead. As they approached with spinny flogging and staysail aloft (staysail apparently wouldn't come down either.), the spinnaker wrapped around the forestay.
They tried to start the engine. A lazy spinny sheet wrapped so tightly in the prop the strut was forced upward into the hull and the prop shaft was bent. For unknown reasons, maybe water through the hatch, the starter and/or batteries caught fire. The electrics, lights, and navigational instruments went dark. The cabin filled with smoke.
The navigator radioed on a handheld VHF for assistance. The navigator, using his handheld GPS, also called distance off beach to his experienced, 10 person, crew.
The halyard lock disengaged unexpectedly, and the spinnaker dropped 20 feet before the halyard jammed. The navigator, standing at the bottom of the companionway, had his feet tangled in the tail of the spinny halyard and was yanked upwards, feet first, , injuring his knee, before luckily hanging up without further damage.
A customs boat showed up, but didn't know what to do. The CG requested a parachute flare be fired, to pinpoint location. This was done with trepidation, as the crew had no experience firing a flare in anger in the dark. During the next few hours, the boat was kept off the beach until dawn. I'm not sure how.
4-5 hours after finishing, the Coast Guard took the SC-70 in tow. The tow line apparently damaged the bow pulpit. The carbon main was left at full hoist, in case the towline broke. The main flogged itself, doing damage, as they were towed to windward, away from the beach, and ultimately safely into San Diego Harbor. A crew was hoisted aloft, and the spinnaker was cut off the forestay.
I wasn't there, and can't answer your questions or comments. Doesn't sound fun.
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Back from the Newport to Cabo Race aboard SC-70 "OEX," I trailered WILDFLOWER from the driveway and relaunched at Santa Cruz Harbor, where we have secured a slip for two months.
Our first sail back in the water since late November of last year found all well aboard. The wind was SW, 15-17 knots, out past Mile Buoy, and WILDFLOWER had her skirts up, while I had one hand on the mainsheet as we skipped along at 12-13 knots on a white sails reach.
Interesting contrasts in boats. WILDFLOWER draws 15" with her daggerboard up, and I can sail her alone. WIZARD (ex-BELLA MENTE), first-to-finish yacht in the recent Newport to Cabo Race is 74' long, draws an incredible 19', and needs no less than 12 pros aboard to get away from the dock.
As you surmise, I don't consider deep draft an advancement in yacht design.
Our first sail back in the water since late November of last year found all well aboard. The wind was SW, 15-17 knots, out past Mile Buoy, and WILDFLOWER had her skirts up, while I had one hand on the mainsheet as we skipped along at 12-13 knots on a white sails reach.
Interesting contrasts in boats. WILDFLOWER draws 15" with her daggerboard up, and I can sail her alone. WIZARD (ex-BELLA MENTE), first-to-finish yacht in the recent Newport to Cabo Race is 74' long, draws an incredible 19', and needs no less than 12 pros aboard to get away from the dock.
As you surmise, I don't consider deep draft an advancement in yacht design.
Not looking for excitement, excitement found us yesterday afternoon. While sailing with one reef, close hauled on port tack at 6.5 knots, 1/2 mile south of Santa Cruz Main Beach, a 20 knot gust got under the port hull, and over we went. My crew and I were hiked to weather, hand holding the uncleated mainsheet. But it was not enough.
Over the next five hours, through hard work and good seamanship by friends and members of Santa Cruz Yacht Club, we got WILDFLOWER righted and towed safely into Santa Cruz Harbor as the sun set. Thankfully, no injuries, except to my pride
We pumped her dry, and pulled her from the water on the Yacht Club hoist. Rig, sails, rudder, and dagger are intact. There is a foot long crack in the starboard hull at the waterline where Vessel Assist made contact, before backing off. Some gear floated out of the cabin and disappeared to leeward, probably on the beach down near New Brighton. We pulled the outboard and have submerged it overnight in a drum of freshwater.
I won't know more until daylight today as to the extent of damage. We'll lift WILDFLOWER onto her trailer, and bring her home for survey and repair.
Things could have turned out much differently. If Paul Tara and son Patrick hadn't taken it upon themselves to sucessfully anchor WILDFLOWER just offshore of Black Point, she would be little but splinters at this time. Thank you Paul! And to Gene Sofen for skillfully and patiently driving the Yacht Club towboat. And to Mary, Jim, Dave, John, Royce, Gary, Anna and Don, and everyone else who pitched in to make the recovery a success. Thankyou!
Finally, my humblest apologies to my dear sister who was called by the Coast Guard SAR to be told WILDFLOWER's EPIRB was ringing. For 45 minutes she did not know our circumstances or location (my cell phone got dunked), nor did I know the EPIRB, secured inside the companionway, was activated.
Amen.
Over the next five hours, through hard work and good seamanship by friends and members of Santa Cruz Yacht Club, we got WILDFLOWER righted and towed safely into Santa Cruz Harbor as the sun set. Thankfully, no injuries, except to my pride
We pumped her dry, and pulled her from the water on the Yacht Club hoist. Rig, sails, rudder, and dagger are intact. There is a foot long crack in the starboard hull at the waterline where Vessel Assist made contact, before backing off. Some gear floated out of the cabin and disappeared to leeward, probably on the beach down near New Brighton. We pulled the outboard and have submerged it overnight in a drum of freshwater.
I won't know more until daylight today as to the extent of damage. We'll lift WILDFLOWER onto her trailer, and bring her home for survey and repair.
Things could have turned out much differently. If Paul Tara and son Patrick hadn't taken it upon themselves to sucessfully anchor WILDFLOWER just offshore of Black Point, she would be little but splinters at this time. Thank you Paul! And to Gene Sofen for skillfully and patiently driving the Yacht Club towboat. And to Mary, Jim, Dave, John, Royce, Gary, Anna and Don, and everyone else who pitched in to make the recovery a success. Thankyou!
Finally, my humblest apologies to my dear sister who was called by the Coast Guard SAR to be told WILDFLOWER's EPIRB was ringing. For 45 minutes she did not know our circumstances or location (my cell phone got dunked), nor did I know the EPIRB, secured inside the companionway, was activated.
Amen.
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BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
I'm sorry to hear about the scare and the damage, but I'm glad you were within range of capable help when you found WILDFLOWER's limits. The rigging box is open if you need something.
It was breeze-on and gusty up here yesterday, both in Vallejo and in Richmond - unusually windy on the Riviera in fact. I'm not surprised some of that breeze found its way to Santa Cruz.
You'll get her going again.
It was breeze-on and gusty up here yesterday, both in Vallejo and in Richmond - unusually windy on the Riviera in fact. I'm not surprised some of that breeze found its way to Santa Cruz.
You'll get her going again.
Just another adventure, huh Skip? Seriously, sorry to hear about Wildflower (2?) but happy that the result was as good as one could hope for.
Best wishes for a quick turnaround. I'm at Lee's house in TX, having finished replacing all the rotted wood parts on her plastic Sabot. Made the parts in my SC garage, so installation involved final shaping and lots of epoxying and screwing! Tomorrow I'm off to start some needed work on Harrier.
Fair Winds to all!
Best wishes for a quick turnaround. I'm at Lee's house in TX, having finished replacing all the rotted wood parts on her plastic Sabot. Made the parts in my SC garage, so installation involved final shaping and lots of epoxying and screwing! Tomorrow I'm off to start some needed work on Harrier.
Fair Winds to all!
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Yikes! Skip, we met in Berkeley when you and Synthia went sailing. Bob Johnston was delivering his spinnaker pole to Dura Mater and we walked over to admire Wildflower. I'm sorry to hear of your dunking, and very happy to learn not only that you are okay, but that the sailing community all came out to assist. I've learned recently just how wonderful that community is. While you were getting wet I was sailing with Mike Maloy on his Even Keel, not learning how to sail a spinnaker, and we talked at length about how much we enjoy and learn from your ... I think of it as your missal. Regards, Jackie
Sleddog_sis
Sailor & former racer
I am so glad, relieved, you name it, that you and your crew are alive and safe.
That was one awful 45 minutes to an hour - after dark, envisioning you in the drink somewhere in the cold ocean off Santa Cruz -- and the Coast Guard lieutenant and I talked at least four times trying to figure it out. They had not had the 2nd pass of satellite to pinpoint you (yet), and I didn't know you were going out sailing but at least knew the harbor you would have left from. And it was gusting like stink up here in Berkeley. Pots blew over off our deck.
I hope never, ever, ever to get that kind of call again - and will happily pay for a better/faster EPIRB too.
Get some sleep and food today.
L'il sis.
That was one awful 45 minutes to an hour - after dark, envisioning you in the drink somewhere in the cold ocean off Santa Cruz -- and the Coast Guard lieutenant and I talked at least four times trying to figure it out. They had not had the 2nd pass of satellite to pinpoint you (yet), and I didn't know you were going out sailing but at least knew the harbor you would have left from. And it was gusting like stink up here in Berkeley. Pots blew over off our deck.
I hope never, ever, ever to get that kind of call again - and will happily pay for a better/faster EPIRB too.
Get some sleep and food today.
L'il sis.
You weren't looking for trouble, trouble was looking for you. At that time on Sunday afternoon I was at RYC, tied on the end of B dock in Dianne, doing maintainence and noting how strong and violent the gusts were. I would take a break now and then to go up on the deck of the clubhouse and watch the crashes and events out on the water. After dinner I bunked on my boat only to note a particularly violent rain squall around 10pm. Then it really started blowing. Between 1am and 4am it had gusts of probably 40+ in the lee of RYC clubhouse where I was tied. I checked my lines, re moused the clanking things aloft and huddeled below. Sleep was not possible.
Noting you havn't written again I hope the damages are not too severe and you are licking your wounds. A speedy recovery to you and WF. SDK
Noting you havn't written again I hope the damages are not too severe and you are licking your wounds. A speedy recovery to you and WF. SDK
WILDFLOWER is home in the driveway, where she was built 2010-2012. I am both heartbroken and hopeful. Vessel Assist, friends with good hearts, did a number on the starboard hull, punching 15 lineal feet of holes and cracks that will need to be repaired. There is also a sizable hole in the foredeck, where the bow cleat and backing structure used to be.
VA should not have been involved. They tried. But were limping on one engine and a broken bow thruster....close in manuvering their vessel in 20 knots of wind was all but impossible. Unfortunately I was not aboard to wave them off. The Harbor Patrol ordered my crew and I to abandon ship, afraid WILDFLOWER would sink. WF is all wood, no keel, and unsinkable. But the Harbor Patrol did not know that, and I don't fault them for their concern. In fact, we both were beginning to feel the effects of hypothermia, and I could not tie a bowline.
Tears have been shed. This spot will be used for updates, lessons learned and questions answered. I invite SSS supporters to visit Capitola and WILDFLOWER.
The outboard has been "fogged" and the engine oil changed twice. It runs. I am now cleaning the interior of the boat. Howard is grinding and hot coating the holes in the hull. Some have experienced the havoc wrought by a capsize. WILDFLOWER's cabin is a spicy stew of kelp, paper remnants, rice, battery acid, and salt water draining from the mattress foam. Already my halibut fisherman neighbor has fileted Synbad's 5" custom foam mattress into nine, 50 pound steaks so we can remove the waterlogged remnants out the hatch. Sorry Syn. Ironically, I have been solicited to write a chapter for Safety at Sea on "Damage Control." Capsizing was to be part of the chapter....
VA should not have been involved. They tried. But were limping on one engine and a broken bow thruster....close in manuvering their vessel in 20 knots of wind was all but impossible. Unfortunately I was not aboard to wave them off. The Harbor Patrol ordered my crew and I to abandon ship, afraid WILDFLOWER would sink. WF is all wood, no keel, and unsinkable. But the Harbor Patrol did not know that, and I don't fault them for their concern. In fact, we both were beginning to feel the effects of hypothermia, and I could not tie a bowline.
Tears have been shed. This spot will be used for updates, lessons learned and questions answered. I invite SSS supporters to visit Capitola and WILDFLOWER.
The outboard has been "fogged" and the engine oil changed twice. It runs. I am now cleaning the interior of the boat. Howard is grinding and hot coating the holes in the hull. Some have experienced the havoc wrought by a capsize. WILDFLOWER's cabin is a spicy stew of kelp, paper remnants, rice, battery acid, and salt water draining from the mattress foam. Already my halibut fisherman neighbor has fileted Synbad's 5" custom foam mattress into nine, 50 pound steaks so we can remove the waterlogged remnants out the hatch. Sorry Syn. Ironically, I have been solicited to write a chapter for Safety at Sea on "Damage Control." Capsizing was to be part of the chapter....
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Dazzler
m/v PACIFIC LOON
Skip,
Our hearts are deeply saddened for you and Wildflower. The good news is that you are unhurt. We are confident that you will rally from this, and that the result will be an even better Wildflower. You must admit, you love a challenge. We wish you all the best in these difficult times. All the best, Tom & Sue
Our hearts are deeply saddened for you and Wildflower. The good news is that you are unhurt. We are confident that you will rally from this, and that the result will be an even better Wildflower. You must admit, you love a challenge. We wish you all the best in these difficult times. All the best, Tom & Sue