New Boat 4 Sled

[BobJ]

To better support that much lead. As they were pouring the lead (which was supposed to be about 17 tons) they realized they had a problem when they'd put 18 tons into the mold. When they dug it out they found it had split the mold. They wanted a fin keel but on a 73 footer the materials technology wasn't there yet.

For Philpott: There's boat bling and then there are rosewood winch handles. I don't spoil Rags as much as you think I do.

 

[sleddog]

To better support that much lead. As they were pouring the lead (which was supposed to be about 17 tons) they realized they had a problem when they'd put 18 tons into the mold. When they dug it out they found it had split the mold. They wanted a fin keel but on a 73 footer the materials technology wasn't there yet.

Yep. PASSAGE was built on the beach on Grand Bahama Island. The keel mold was in a giant hole dug in the beach sand. As BobJ recounts, the bottom of the mold broke, accidentally forming a near perfect Scheel keel.
PASSAGE has had 5 keels during her lifetime, the latest by Alan Andrews.

"Loaded 16 tons and what do you get?"

 

[BobJ]

"Another day older and deeper in debt!"

Here are half models of a couple of her keels, and a few other photos:

 

[AlanH]

About Alberg boats.... Once upon a time I made some extra dollars teaching sailing out of Redwood City. Right next to our "school" Santana 22's was a Alberg Kittiwake 23. I always liked the looks of that boat. It's the same size as the Ensign and Electra, more or less but I think that the cabin and sheer "work" a little bit better. The Kittiwake is actually a stretched Alberg 22 design. The builder, Kenner Yachts in Texas, cut the mold for their Alberg designed 22-footer and cobbled in an extra 3-4 inches somehow, after a falling-out with the original builders, which was South Coast Boatworks. Whatever they did, it worked.

here's a Kittiwake history lesson - http://www.kittiwake23registry.com/history.htm

If I wasn't interested in getting anywhere, even vaguely close to fast, I could see myself owning one of these for messin' around the Bay. I really like the Alberg Sea Sprite 23 but there is zilch room down below for a guy my size and I have limits. The Kittiwake, however, is more reasonable white still being pretty in an Alberg sort of way..

QUIZ QUESTION:

Of the famous Pearson cruisers of the late 1960's...the Triton and her sisters, one was NOT designed by Carl Alberg. Which one, who designed it and how is it different from the others?

 

[AlanH]

PS: I think we should take up a collection and buy Dura Mater a rosewood winch handle. Mmmmm-HM.

 

[sleddog]

About Alberg boats...
QUIZ QUESTION:
Of the famous Pearson cruisers of the late 1960's...the Triton and her sisters, one was NOT designed by Carl Alberg. Which one, who designed it and how is it different from the others?

I don't know Alan. Pearson used a bunch of different designers other than Carl Alberg in the 60's. Bill Tripp designed the Invicta centerboard ketch in 1960, Phil Rhodes did the Rhodes-41, and John Alden the Countess 44 ketch in 1965, all built by Pearson. Bill Shaw, promoted to head designer, did a bunch of designs for Pearson too.

The Shaw designed, Pearson built, Lark 24 had a flush deck, ala Lapworth's Cal 28, in 1968. The Pearson 22, by Shaw, was almost a copy of the Santana-22 by G.Mull, complete with fin keel and spade rudder. And the Pearson 33 and 35's in the late 60's, also by Bill Shaw, had centerboards.

With this smorgasboard, I'm gonna choose the Lark 24 as the answer to your quiz. It was late 60's, full keel like Alberg's Triton, but different with the flush deck.

 

[AlanH]

I don't know Alan. Pearson used a bunch of different designers other than Carl Alberg in the 60's. Bill Tripp designed the Invicta centerboard ketch in 1960, Phil Rhodes did the Rhodes-41, and John Alden the Countess 44 ketch in 1965, all built by Pearson. Bill Shaw, promoted to head designer, did a bunch of designs for Pearson too.

The Shaw designed, Pearson built, Lark 24 had a flush deck, ala Lapworth's Cal 28, in 1968. The Pearson 22, by Shaw, was almost a copy of the Santana-22 by G.Mull, complete with fin keel and spade rudder. And the Pearson 33 and 35's in the late 60's, also by Bill Shaw, had centerboards.

With this smorgasboard, I'm gonna choose the Lark 24 as the answer to your quiz. It was late 60's, full keel like Alberg's Triton, but different with the flush deck.

View attachment 2046

That's a good point about the Invicta and the Rhodes 41. I never see these boats so I never think of them. Sheesh. The Invicta is a lovely hull, but that bubble-shaped deckhouse? I've always thought that the deckhouse looked like it was glued on as an afterthought. There was one at Petes Harobr years and years ago that I used to walk by all the time. I don't know if I've ever seen a Rhodes 41. ZING!~

The Lark was one of the two possible answers that I had in mind that folks would come up with. It's so wildly different from the Triton, Ariel, Alberg 30, Vanguard and Alberg 35 in terms of its deck that I wasn't aiming that direction. But you are absolutely right!

So what's the other Pearson boat with a trunk-type cabin from that era, that I might be thinking of? Extra caveat: one or two of the boats that I'm thinking of have raced in the SSS in the past season or two. Why is it different?

 

[AlanH]

BTW, Windward Passage sure is pretty.

 

[sleddog]

I don't know if I've ever seen a Rhodes 41.

So what's the other Pearson boat with a trunk-type cabin from that era, that I might be thinking of? Extra caveat: one or two of the boats that I'm thinking of have raced in the SSS in the past season or two. Why is it different?

You have to be quick in these parts, with Bob the J, DAZZLER, and Howard likely lurking in the woodwork for their chicken dinner. You've likely seen a Rhodes 41, same design as the legendary Bounty II. a pretty hull if there ever was one. And nearly indestructible, being dramatically overbuilt as no one fully understood at that time the strength of fiberglass compared to wood. The early Bounty II's even had fiberglas masts, until aluminum came along.



The Bounty II was the first production yacht 40 feet or longer to be built of fiberglas, built by AeroMarine Plastics in Sausalito and debuting in 1956. Over 100 were built before 1961 when Pearson acquired the molds, made some modifications, and called it the Rhodes 41.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ /)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The answer to your question would be the Pearson Renegade, designed by Bill Shaw. Looks like a Triton, until you realize it has a spade rudder and turns on a dime.

 

[Tom P.]

Sled is right. I've been holding back (lurking) on this one. I know too much about Pearson boats of the 60's. The Triton was all the rage, and they were being built along with the Bounty II (later to become the Rhodes 41) at AeroMarine Plastics, at the Foot of Spring Street, Sausalito (present-day site of Schoonmaker Marina). If you want to talk about obscure sailboats, have you ever seen an AeroMarine 24? They had a sliding dog house.

We lusted after a Triton, but settled for the little sister: Pearson Ariel. In the Spring of 1965 my father ordered an Ariel. The dealer was Howard Ellis in Tiburon. Because the boat couldn't be delivered until the Fall, Howard sold us a used Ensign with the agreement to buy it back when the Ariel was delivered. It's worth noting that Sled's shipmate of a few years later, Steve Taft, worked for Howard at that time. I remember that on a bet Steve singlehanded a Rhodes 41 down Raccoon Strait under spinnaker. There were no autopilots back then.

That Summer I sailed the Ensign just about every day all over SF Bay. It was a great boat, but it was wet and did not have a self-bailing cockpit. I remember one time my brother George and I decided to see how many bridges we could sail under in one day. Sounds a bit like the 3BF right? After sailing under the GG and Oakland Bay bridges we headed for the Richmond-San Rafael. So now what? But of course, we went north to sail under the Carquinez Bridge. I remember sailing back through San Pablo Bay in the very late afternoon; we took turns bailing. Foul weather gear was from the army surplus store and did little to keep us dry. We got back well after dark. My poor mother...

The Ariel was also a great boat and there are many others stories to tell. As for AlanH's quiz, I've never considered the Bill Shaw designs to be in the same league as the Pearson Alberg/Rhodes/Tripp/Alden boats.

Tom

P.S. Speaking of Pearson boats and the SSS, least we not forget SPARKY, (Pearson Electra) same hull as the Ensign. Ruben Gabriel and SPARKY, after being dismasted, successfully completing the 2008 SSS SHTP without outside assistance!

 

[sleddog]

I've been holding back (lurking) on this one. If you want to talk about obscure sailboats, have you ever seen an AeroMarine 24? They had a sliding dog house.

That Summer I sailed the Ensign just about every day all over SF Bay. It was a great boat, but it was wet and did not have a self-bailing cockpit. I remember one time my brother George and I decided to see how many bridges we could sail under in one day. Sounds a bit like the 3BF right? After sailing under the GG and Oakland Bay bridges we headed for the Richmond-San Rafael. So now what? But of course, we went north to sail under the Carquinez Bridge. I remember sailing back through San Pablo Bay in the very late afternoon: we took turns bailing. Foul weather gear was from the army surplus store and did little to keep us dry. We got back well after dark. My poor mother...
Tom[/I]

Thanks, Tom, for that nugget. I doubt many boats of any size have done a 4, (or was it 5?) Bridge Fiasco on the same day.

Ah, the Aero 24 with the sliding dog house. A cockpit for 6, a cabin for 4, all on a 24 footer. Bill Tripp was known for his roomy boats, and that certainly was one.

 

[AlanH]

See, you learn something new every day. Yeah, Bounty's...seen a couple of those. There was a bounty that sat at the Docktown Marina for 15 years, easy, back umpty-ump years ago. It seemed HUGE to me, back then. I remember when if finally got bought. I saw the same boat, later in Alameda. But that's the only bounty I think I've ever seen.

The Renegade was in fact the boat I was thinking of. I've always thought that it looked like Bill Shaw designed a keel for an aft-hung rudder and then moved it back to make the split underbody without changing the keel at all. However, when I was considering what boat to get for my current iteration of sailing, the Renegade was a strong contender. I just wanted something rather faster than PHRF 240-something.

Sliding doghouse? whoah.

You know, I still see Tritons all over the Bay but the Ariels seem to have vanished. I remember seeing lots of them, back in the late 80's when I started sailing again after a post-teen-years hiatus.

 

[Intermission]

You have to be quick in these parts, with Bob the J, DAZZLER, and Howard likely lurking in the woodwork for their chicken dinner.



We need age divisions competing for the chicken dinner.

 

[sleddog]

You have to be quick in these parts, with Bob the J, DAZZLER, and Howard likely lurking in the woodwork for their chicken dinner.

We need age divisions competing for the chicken dinner.

Roger the "Age Divisions." As an aside, with so many winners, we've run dangerously low on chicken dinners here at the Capitola Maritime Museum. TJ's Chicken Pot Pies will have to substitute for the moment. But will include homemade cranberry sauce.

Capitola Beach has disappeared into the surf. 5 vertical feet of sand, 100 yards long, has disappeared seaward, assisted by the 3rd highest tide of the year (6.7') and a southerly wind of 20 knots blowing the surface waters of Monterey Bay northward into our local cove.

What was left of the local beach was scooped up (10 loads) and loaded into a John Deere front end loader this morning and trucked to the City Hall lot for sandbags. "paying Peter to pipe Paul" or something to that effect.

Join in the local fun here: http://foxxr.com/beachcamlive/ No age discrimination.

I would recommend refraining from driving in our direction. All road arteries out of town are blocked by mudslides. The main water main pipe for Santa Cruz broke yesterday, and Santa Cruz is on rationing..

At the Santa Cruz Harbor, two patrons of the Crow's Nest had a bit too much to drink, and drove their black Mercedes down the launch ramp, possibly mistaking it for the freeway onramp They would have drowned had not a waitress on break spotted them. The driver was arrested for DUI (Driving Underwater Intoxicated.) You can't make this stuff up.

It would be a Grade B horror flick, except that is already being featured in the Nation's Capitol. Meryl Streep publicly called out as a "second rate actress" by a questionable judge of talent who should know better.
.

 

[BobJ]

Current Grade B horror flick > greater intensity in looking at cruising boats.

I sailed a Cape Dory Typhoon (the little Alberg) a bit. Being waterline-challenged (14' LWL) they aren't fast, but are sweet to sail and pretty to look at. For typical use and pride-of-ownership I'd compare them to the Alerion Express 28's: Often regarded as little yachts and lovingly fussed over by their owners.

Regarding Cape Dories, SQUALI's dinghy was the smallest made - a Cape Dory 10 with gunter rig. I circumnavigated Government Island by getting a run at the bridge, dropping the upper section of the mast, coasting under the bridge and re-hoisting. I thought that was pretty clever until years later when they started racing around the island of Alameda with Lasers.

Rambling on, I'm bummed that I missed the New Year's Day circumnavigation of Alameda and progressive meal. I'd intended to participate this year and was even out sailing, I just forgot. I was reminded when I heard all the bridge-opening requests on Channel 9.
.

 

[sleddog]

Bob J is correct as usual. The Cape Dory Typhoon, especially the Weekender model with its comfortable and cozy little cabin, is an enduring classic. It's handsome, nimble, affordable, trailerable, scullable, and downright pleasant to sail. If Carl Alberg were still alive, I'd like to shake his hand.

 

[BobJ]

The roller-furling is a bit much, and even more the in-mast furling on the blue Kittiwake Alan posted

But isn't that just the fairest little yacht you could imagine? Thanks for the photo, Sled.
.

 

[AlanH]

Haha!~ I'm snickering at the in-mast furling on the Kittiwake. I never noticed that before. It's just that it's a good picture, otherwise.

I've grubbed around inside a Typhoon once, that was sitting on a trailer with the mast up. Man, that thing was *Built*. I'd love to sail one, sometime.

And in other commentary...

One of my favorite traditional small wood boats (besides mercuries) is Al Masons Ostkust, sometimes called the "American Folkboat"

Here's a whole photobucket site about an extended-cabin Ostkust. - http://s146.photobucket.com/user/bauerdad/media/Ostkust/11-IMG_5675.jpg.html

 

[AlanH]

Two things... Question. How long does Nor Cal PHRF take to get new certs out after the New Year, nowadays?

Observation. The docks at the marina at Folsom Lake are floating again. I just looked at the webcam. However, Lake Cachuma down by Santa Barbara is not looking so good. It's at 8% capacity.

http://cosb.countyofsb.org/pwd/pwwater.aspx?id=41992

 

[BobJ]

I talked to Laura @YRA a few days ago. They started releasing the renewal certificates last week - I received mine on Friday. But as a new registrant, yours probably has to be blessed by the PHRF Committee, which doesn't meet until Thursday, 1/26. Laura is well aware that SSS needs the new certificates for the 3BF two days later. She's dug some kind of electronic secret tunnel between her office and Rick's and they apparently have a plan.

However, I don't see the Wildcat on this list yet. I'd check on that:
YRA PHRF list.