sss hmb and ncorc rules

[Wylieguy]

HMB Requirements

I guess I'm not really getting the answer I'm looking for so my question must be wrong. Does the board believe the HMB is in the same category of ocean race (in terms of risk factor) as the Farallones? What if the only ocean race you plan to do is the HMB? I'd rank the races progressively. HMB basic CG requirements, Farallones NCORC, Longpac and Transpac as is. (or what the Race Chairs deem appropriate)

Jonathan, Unless you take an abrupt "Left Turn" at Seal Rocks, you will sail pretty close to where "Daisy's" hull lies (it's fiberglass). If you continue on to HMB you'll sail over the locations where several boats have been lost on the "South Bar" over the years. I think a jaunt down to HMB is in the same category as any other Gulf of the Farallones Race. (disclaimer: I'm not on the SSS Board and am no longer on the YRA Board).

I know yacht club cruises go down to HMB with the minimum CG requirements with boats and skippers much less experienced; I think it's just a matter of time. I also know a couple was lost two years ago near Seal Rocks just "cruising." Their Ranger 33 sat in KKMI's Sausalito yard for months afterward as a grim reminder until it was cut up and hauled it away. Over the years several boats have grounded in Ocean Beach for various reasons, sometimes resulting in loss of life.

Pat Broderick

 

[BobJ]

The other board members can certainly speak for themselves but as incoming race chair, if you made me answer today I would tell you the new NorCalORC requirements are minimum equipment requirements for ocean races out of San Francisco Bay.

Does this board member "believe the HMB race is in the same category of ocean race (in terms of risk factor) as the Farallones?" Not most years. However the 2011 HMB race was a fairly heavy air upwind race until shortly before the Colorado Reef buoy, while the 2012 SH Farallones Race was mostly a drifter.

The board will discuss it when we reconvene after the 3BF.

 

[scottc]

One of my concerns is about the requirement for a 33lb floatation PFD. I know alot of people like the inflatables but I prefer to not trust them or have them go off on the boat when they get caught on something. The other thing is if in the water if you were to bounce off something, like a rock they can pop and then you have nothing. What are others thoughts on this part?
Scott

 

[BobJ]

I tend to agree with you Scott. The guy who fell overboard Saturday said he would have had trouble had he been wearing an inflatable. I can't be 100% sure my Mustang vest will inflate if I need it. I assume it will, but I don't KNOW. Plus you get some padding and insulation from a regular vest.

The challenge is where to draw the line on the vest type PFD's. The guy Saturday fell in the water because he got hit by the boom. Had it knocked him out, having a PFD that would turn him upright might have been critical, but the Type III vests we often wear won't do that. The waist-belt PFD's are clearly insufficient.

Perhaps read the Low Speed Chase report again (which is what's driving this) - inadequate PFD's were a factor in at least a couple of those fatalities.

 

[tiger beetle]

USCG Type 1 life jackets will also meet the NCORC rule, and I own several of the Stearns Merchant Mate life vests, and while bulky, they are comfortable to wear. I have them specifically for heading for the life raft, should that prove necessary. They are also warm and the padding is good for climbing the mast.

http://www.stearnsflotation.com/Deluxe-Merchant-Matetrade-II-Life-Vest-P1573C8.aspx

There's no absolute requirement that you have an inflatable built into NCORC. There is a recognition that the typical Type II lifejacket is insufficient to keep you going in offshore waves.

- rob/beetle

 

[Wylieguy]

We sailed by Rich soon after he was in the water. We offered our horseshoe, but he waved us off and said "Ay Caliente" was coming back for him. Here's what we observed. He was wearing a dinghy-type life vest that was up around his neck. After we passed by and looked back all we could see was the vest sticking up in the choppy water. He was treading water and waving boats off that were approaching him. He was floating about neck-deep in choppy water created by the many boats in the area and getting splashed in the face. He was only in the water for a few minutes before "Ay Caliente" got back to him (they should bet the USSA Hansen Lifesaving Award for what they did!)
I took the Safety at Sea Seminar at the Maritime Academy as preparation for the 2010 PacCup. I observed two demonstrations that stick solidly with me to this day. 1) A 12 gauge meteor flare in 20 knots of wind half a mile away might as well be pissing on a forest fire. 2) During the PFD demonstration in the Academy's indoor pool, volunteers in dinghy-type vests were having difficulty keeping their chins out of the water after just a few minutes. And they were fighting vests up around their necks. Those in high-floatation inflatables with thigh straps had no problems, especially a "large" bodied mad in a Spinlock vest with his hood pulled over his face.
We were told, and I believe it, that many overboard drownings occur when a person in a life jacket tires and can't keep his/her face out of the water or away from the wind - which causes the wave action to splash into the face. I know an inflated vest is awkward, but the point, especially at sea, isn't to swim; it's to keep alive long enough for rescue. That's why, as I've said before, I hook the PLB and submersible VHF onto me - so I can call for that rescue and hope it gets to me in time.
I came home from Vallejo,and that day ordered a Spinlock vest from Defender Industries. Thigh straps (somewhat awkward, but will keep the vest in its proper relationship to my body). Hood to pull over my head (with clear plastic face) to keep waves from splashing into my face. EU floatation approval (I know it's not USCG "approved" - I carry USCG Type 1 bulky vests to meet the requirement) Automatic inflation (plus pull cord and oral inflation tube) Good shot at turning my unconscious body face up. Very expensive!

 

[Lanikai]

Still buzzing from the TBF (so far it looks like I wasn't dead last!) and looking forward to trying an SSS ocean event (thinking particularly of HMB for my first), I started reviewing the NCORC requirements to determine what my very average, very old Santana 22 would need to be compliant. The only head start I have is a pulpit and stanchions.
For the bored & curious, my virtual-back-of-napkin ballpark numbers are here:
google doc spreadsheet of NCORC projects specific to Lanikai

To help decide whether I should invest $1800 in boat projects and possibly the same amount in safety gear for this little boat with a resale value of half that amount, or postpone my ocean racing career while I put that money toward a better prepared boat, I have a couple questions:

What is an "integral, essentially watertight unit" (G)? I suspect most participating boats have cowl vents, lazarette vents, hatchboard vents, chain pipes, etc. which can allow some considerable green water ingress in foul conditions. Would a couple of unsealed cowl vents and a leaky companionway be considered unacceptable for something like a fair weather HMB race?

For a singlehander, I wonder about the lifesling and MOB requirements. Kinda hard to toss a MOB pole to myself and work the lifesling from the water, no? Or is the idea that I should be equipped to assist a nearby sailor in distress (in which case, fair enough)?

Finally, for the older salts familiar with the Santana 22 (I'm looking at you, Mr. Broderick!), my biggest hurdle project-wise would be reconstructing the cockpit drain assemblies to incorporate proper seacocks where none currently exist. It's maybe a straight foot from the underside of the cockpit to the hull, and the integral glass nipples at both ends are still rock solid after 45 years. Would I still need to proceed with this alteration?

I can abide all the requirements in spirit and most of them in specifics. Certainly my boat, or any boat, would do well to have many of these safety measures in place even for simple leisure sailing on the bay. Formulating a specific plan to get from my present state of unseaworthiness to a future HMB or Farallones race is, while financially sobering, helpful in deciding realistically if and when I will be out there chasing the rest of you.

 

[Wylieguy]

Laniki, I wrote an extensive reply to your post, but the damned SSS system kicked me off and it was lost. I hate this system. I don't have time to go back and reconstruct it right now, but I'll get back later. In the meantime, let's plan to sit down at/after the SSS Awards Meeting and talk about what you've asked/said. Thanks, Pat

 

[BobJ]

Pat, for the life of me I don't understand why this board "times out" logged-on members. Perhaps Matt can tweak those settings (probably not) but in the meantime, here's the trick I use. If I've gotten long-winded typing a reply, before I click to post it, I drag across the whole thing with the mouse, then right-click and click "Copy". Then I try to post it. If it says I have to Log In again, I cuss a bit and do it, then hit Reply to Thread again, right click in the window and click "Paste".

In other words, copy your reply to the "Clipboard" before you lose the whole thing when trying to post it.

 

[Lanikai]

Thanks, Pat, I'll look for you at the awards meeting.
I kept getting timed out as I wrote my post as well, but internalized BobJ's trick eons ago after watching too many of my treatises evaporate into the ether (probably for the better in most cases). If I start getting wordy, I usually just move to a text editor until I'm ready to post. But this forum does seem unusually quick on the timeouts.

Adam

 

[Dazzler]

Waterproof Handheld DSC/GPS VHF

NCORC MOR Item #11 (Safety Gear): Waterproof handheld VHF radio. After 1/1/2014, this radio shall have DSC/GPS capability.

With reference to the above requirement, I want to bring everyone’s’ attention the Nautilus Lifeline www.nautiluslifeline.com. I’ve recently purchased one of these fully waterproof DSC/GPS VHF radios. I carried it during the 3BF. There’s been lots of discussion about carrying a PLB verses a VHF. For near coastal racing (Farallones and HMB) I think a DSC/GPS VHF radio is a better bet; need I explain? Right now I only know of three other manufacturers of DSC/GPS VHF: Icom, Standard and Simrad. The Lifeline isn’t as small as I’d of liked, but it’s smaller than most handheld VHF’s, very waterproof and designed primarily as a piece of safety gear.

Tom

 

[kotyara]

It looks nifty, but then I just got an ICOM M92D for the same $300, which seems to be a little more handy as an actual radio. Used it in the cockpit during TBF and very happy with it. There's an "distress" button on the back. Batteries lasted about 1.5 days of intermittent use, sound quality was very good, and you can buy an adapter to use AA cells for power. There's also Standard Horizon hx851 that goes for $200 online, seems to have good reviews as well.

BTW, on the subject of online deals, a West Marine employee told me that they will not be matching online prices any more starting from March.

 

[Dazzler]

Waterproof Handheld DSC/GPS VHF

I've been very happy with the ICOM radios I've owned. I have a 25W DSC model interfaced to my GPS and a non-DSC Icom M88 and would have little hesitation in buying the M92D. The Nautilus Lifeline is not intended to serve as your primary or secondary VHF; it's a piece of personal emergency communication gear.

The problem with handheld VHF's is how to comfortably carry them on you. The antenna is the problem. And, if you don't have it on you it won't do you much good if you're in the water. I think about the J-90 guy, Dave Wilhite, that had the incredible cool to dive under his boat for his VHF when the keel fell off. It saved their lives. Better to have the radio on you and know that the battery is fresh.

Tom

 

[kotyara]

Good point. Mine was attached to the cockpit the whole race, so it would've been useless as a rescue tool (duh!). A Spinlock vest might help with that, apparently it has a pocket specifically for a VHF. Can any Spinlock owners comment on that?

 

[Lanikai]

All good advice, thank you, Richard. In 5 years...can't imagine. I started my sailing life years ago as a cruiser with big ambitions and that probably won't have changed much by then. But until I have the bank, and time, to cast off in a well-found cruiser, I figure I'll "get my feet wet", to quote Jonathan, in the bay area racing scene and see where it goes. The little tuna seemed like the simplest way to get started without draining too much from the future cruising kitty. I'm content to knock around the bay as is, but it seems that if I want to participate in organized events beyond the gate I have some more thinking to do.

Oh, and the boat projects...been there, done that, got the T-shirts and credit card statements! Restoration of a previous pocket cruiser introduced me to the time- and money-suck that all boats are. Hence my endless deliberating about plans for this boat.
At the very least, this NCORC MER stuff has encouraged me to put together a solid kit of personal gear I can use regardless of the boat I'm on.

 

[Wylieguy]

Adam, Damn! I lost the first few sentences of another reply. I'm working from my laptop and don't have your spreadsheet at hand, so if I miss some of the items on that document I'll get back with another email. I think your $$$ totals are way high and that you can prepare your Tuna for ocean racing for a lot less.
1) Cockpit scuppers. The NCRC Requirements specifically exempts scuppers from needing seacocks. I did carry wooden plugs for them in the unlikely case the hoses connecting them to the thru-hulls somehow broke. Any other thru-hulls on your boat? No need to haul nor buy nor glass.
2) Masthead antenna. No yard necessary. Call upon two or three other Tuna owners to help you get the mast down in the berth. We all do it that way. The antenna, including R8 cable and PL59 plug should be $100 or maybe a little more. I wouldn't even put a connector for the thru hull, just run the cable in and caulk. Keep for extra cable so if you need to remove the mast you can cut off the connector and then put a new one on ($10 or so).
3) Depth Sounder. The hull is solid glass. Buy a cheap Humminbird (eBay?) and glue the transducer inside the hull up front. Worked for me - but you need to provide 12 volts, so some simple wiring is necessary.
4) VHF/DSC Radio. WM has one for about $150 (use one of their almost daily discount coupons to save another $15 or maybe $20)
5. Hull integrity. The factory main hatch should work with no modification. Bore a hole in a corner of the hatch boards, run a piece of line thru and tie the bitter end off to something solid inside the cabin. Yes, plan to stuff a sponge in the ventilators. The idea is for the boat to survive a 360, not to float upside down forever. I used bungie cord to keep the cockpit lockers closed tightly. I also duck taped them shut when sailing ocean races. You can bore a hole thru a corner of the main hatch and thru the cabin top, then use a clevis pip to keep the hatch closed.
6. Interior hatch covers/anchor + chain and rode. First, you are only required to have 150', not 200' of anchor line. Bore a hole on two sides of each hatch cover, bore another hole next to it in the see top and use light line to tie them in. Put your anchor and rode under and you have it secured. Battery too (I used a lawnmower battery). But the battery does need to be strapped down.
7. 2 Buckets w/lanyards. Two empty COSTCO detergent containers with the handles removed. Bore two holes, use a length of old line to form a new handle and tie another piece of line onto that handle for a lanyard. Worked for me for the PacCup and LongPac.
8. EPIRB. Join BOATUS and rent one from them. Less than $100 and you don't have to worry about replacing an expensive battery. Or borrow one - BUT re-register it with NOAA. You'll need the owner's password, and it's a very simple online process. Then reverse the registration when you give the unit back.
Enough for now. But I don't think you have to haul your boat, nor have a yard pull your mast. The VHF radio/Antenna should be less than $300.
Pat - Former Tuna owner and still a Tuna lover.

 

[BobJ]

Pat - Former Tuna owner and still a Tuna lover.

This one looks good and it's even blue!

 

[Lanikai]

I try to use the 2x4 rule (twice the money, quadruple the time), but then I also tend to get carried away with projects--what the boat wants, the boat gets! But you're right, there are simpler solutions and I'll be implementing those you describe.
Lanikai is due for a bottom paint haul and removal of old head thru hulls, but altering scupper drains might have turned a weekend into a week. Glad to know that isn't necessary. The DIY mast stepping gives me an excuse to meet some other sailors, too, and save myself $230 in Svendsen's fees. Radio pays for itself, when I look at that way. Basically free! (I've gotten very good at rationalizing boat expenditures).
Despite being one of the older, neglected tunas, I've put some effort into the boat and know it's close to being capable of ocean work, but also never know what to make of these rules & regs. Those were just the reassurances I needed to hear. Thanks, Pat!
-Adam

 

[Philpott]

Re these newly required VHF/DSC/GPS radios (and yes, I understand that they're not required until 2016); Do alternative GPS units not rate a waiver? Since the radio is good only for approximately 200 miles out, would not a PLB rate a waiver? I don't understand. I have a brand new standard horizon VHF/DSC. I was feeling so virtuous.

 

[JohnS]

My understanding of the logic behind the gps enabled dsc hand held vhf is that the vhf has a more rapid response time than would a epirb or plb. And with the gps the dsc sends the cg your location on first contact. Personally I think it's a good idea although it leaves me needing to procure a new hand held vhf in the next couple of years.

Also, I doubt that a hand held vhf would ever make a 200 mile contact. A mast head antenna and a fixed mount radio would likely be out of range at that distance, too. Although I have worked 2 meter ham contacts from a greater distance using a 5 watt HT. But that involved a repeater on Mt. Diablo.