MTTP explanation that I found helpful.
https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/mppt-solar-charge-controllers.html/
https://www.solar-electric.com/learning-center/mppt-solar-charge-controllers.html/
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Surprise!
- Thread starter BobJ
- Start date
solosailor
New member
Landed pricing: Sunpower 110W @ $250, Victron MPPT Bluetooth controller $120, Poly backing $50, Tape $30 = $450 - 7amps. I'd prefer to see an even stronger backing behind that for rigid mounting on a rail, etc.
everydaysailor
New member
"If you need to get into a car or on public transportation to go for a walk or run, you’re going too far," the San Francisco Department of Public Health says in its order. (Issued today)
San Mateo County instituted a 5-mile limit. We're supposed to only go five miles from home, for recreation. Is checking my boat, "recreation"? Joan is going for a hike this afternoon, at a local park which Google Maps says is 5.7 miles from our house....
Scofflaw!
Coyote Point is 11 miles from my house. Grrrr.
Scofflaw!
Coyote Point is 11 miles from my house. Grrrr.
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
It's been almost a month since the last project update (and what a month it has been...) The SHTP is postponed so Surprise!'s solar project is postponed as well. My priorities have shifted to interior cosmetic issues.
Surprise! was intended to be more of a daysailer and the veneer on her plywood cabin sole is not liking things like wet spinnakers. The sole has been sanded and refinished enough times that some areas don't have much veneer left - especially around the mast. The galley area isn't much better. The PO said they epoxied over some of the veneer to seal it, so I'm not sure whether it can be fully-restored.
After some research, I ordered samples of a product called Lonwood. It looks good but this possible project has me intimidated. Does anyone have experience with this, or can you recommend someone who does?
And does anyone know why you can take two photos in the same orientation and when you post them here, one gets flipped and the other one doesn't (and you can't fix it!) ???
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Surprise! was intended to be more of a daysailer and the veneer on her plywood cabin sole is not liking things like wet spinnakers. The sole has been sanded and refinished enough times that some areas don't have much veneer left - especially around the mast. The galley area isn't much better. The PO said they epoxied over some of the veneer to seal it, so I'm not sure whether it can be fully-restored.
After some research, I ordered samples of a product called Lonwood. It looks good but this possible project has me intimidated. Does anyone have experience with this, or can you recommend someone who does?
And does anyone know why you can take two photos in the same orientation and when you post them here, one gets flipped and the other one doesn't (and you can't fix it!) ???
.
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The teak and holly plywood sole from a boat built in 1979 is still being used and recycled in Bodfish.
Some construction details of note. The plywood and veneer has some type of waterproof glue that seems to stand the test of time. The key to longevity is the edge sealing. Mine have mahogany trim of about 1/4 to 3/8 inch thickness that is epoxy glued and screwed to the edges to seal the edges from water intrusion.
The replacement samples could be either wood veneer with detail or plastic laminate like Formica. I have no experience with the specific product.
Attaching the new finish cover could be epoxy fastened or other adhesive.
The details that make the job look great are 1) how easy is it to hold new laminate face so it adheres without voids (or bubbles), 2) how do you get sealing side edge and top flush so it looks good?
A flush top edge requires existing top to be removed or thicker side trim used. The quicker job would probably happen if the sides were replaced and new top finish applied. Then all flooring sections would need to be completed so matching edges are flush.
My experience with this was recycling teak and holly floor panels from a 34.foot cold molded 3/4 tonner to give larger floorboards in Moore 24 for battery mounting and bilge visuals as well as keeping loose items out of bilge. It was easier to remove edge trim and cut down panels than refacing in the same dimensions.
Hope this gives a little insight.
Ants
Some construction details of note. The plywood and veneer has some type of waterproof glue that seems to stand the test of time. The key to longevity is the edge sealing. Mine have mahogany trim of about 1/4 to 3/8 inch thickness that is epoxy glued and screwed to the edges to seal the edges from water intrusion.
The replacement samples could be either wood veneer with detail or plastic laminate like Formica. I have no experience with the specific product.
Attaching the new finish cover could be epoxy fastened or other adhesive.
The details that make the job look great are 1) how easy is it to hold new laminate face so it adheres without voids (or bubbles), 2) how do you get sealing side edge and top flush so it looks good?
A flush top edge requires existing top to be removed or thicker side trim used. The quicker job would probably happen if the sides were replaced and new top finish applied. Then all flooring sections would need to be completed so matching edges are flush.
My experience with this was recycling teak and holly floor panels from a 34.foot cold molded 3/4 tonner to give larger floorboards in Moore 24 for battery mounting and bilge visuals as well as keeping loose items out of bilge. It was easier to remove edge trim and cut down panels than refacing in the same dimensions.
Hope this gives a little insight.
Ants
Here's an update.
I went to the website and read what was available. I still have no idea what material the overlay is made of. The overlay can be fastened with a mfgr adhesive or West epoxy. The application is listed for interior, but a sailboat interior have the same conditions as a ship or house interior. The manufacture lists a molded edge trim that is fastened with an adhesive also.
I have my biases and have no fondness for a household situation where composite overlays are trying to mimic a true wood installation.
Sailboats have the visual appeal and retain value from traditional practices.
My suggestion would be to evaluate using the same teak and holly plywood to replace the ones with degraded faces. Depending on the condition of all the floor boards may not need replacing. This could be a lesser effort than replacing all the floorboards with a different face material.
After the base effort to replace with like material is complete, then it would time to see if there is any advantage to use the composite overlay. Does it have lesser / greater material and labor result? Would the final result be an asset or liability? As an example, I have seen any number of cases where a deck overlay was added that simply looked like hell.
I wonder if you would find a boat worker willing to work with the overlay.
Ants
I went to the website and read what was available. I still have no idea what material the overlay is made of. The overlay can be fastened with a mfgr adhesive or West epoxy. The application is listed for interior, but a sailboat interior have the same conditions as a ship or house interior. The manufacture lists a molded edge trim that is fastened with an adhesive also.
I have my biases and have no fondness for a household situation where composite overlays are trying to mimic a true wood installation.
Sailboats have the visual appeal and retain value from traditional practices.
My suggestion would be to evaluate using the same teak and holly plywood to replace the ones with degraded faces. Depending on the condition of all the floor boards may not need replacing. This could be a lesser effort than replacing all the floorboards with a different face material.
After the base effort to replace with like material is complete, then it would time to see if there is any advantage to use the composite overlay. Does it have lesser / greater material and labor result? Would the final result be an asset or liability? As an example, I have seen any number of cases where a deck overlay was added that simply looked like hell.
I wonder if you would find a boat worker willing to work with the overlay.
Ants
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Thanks Ants. Yes, it's a weighty decision. It's a big project and has the potential to make Surprise!'s cabin sole look like it belongs in a Benehuntalina.
Here's a photo of Ragtime!'s cabin sole just before I sold her. Same builder, same materials, six years older than Surprise!.
So I have my standards and without replacing or covering the entire cabin sole, I don't think I can get there.
Here's a photo from yesterday - the Lonwood piece is up against the bulkhead. Rainwater had been allowed to drip down the mast and onto the wood. The other pieces are a variety of colors, have dents and scrapes and to my eye the whole thing looks like crap. I want to do this once and not have to maintain it. (Philpott is wondering if I'm ever going to sail this boat again!)
Here's a photo of Ragtime!'s cabin sole just before I sold her. Same builder, same materials, six years older than Surprise!.
So I have my standards and without replacing or covering the entire cabin sole, I don't think I can get there.
Here's a photo from yesterday - the Lonwood piece is up against the bulkhead. Rainwater had been allowed to drip down the mast and onto the wood. The other pieces are a variety of colors, have dents and scrapes and to my eye the whole thing looks like crap. I want to do this once and not have to maintain it. (Philpott is wondering if I'm ever going to sail this boat again!)
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Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
I understand other peoples’ compulsions. I just don’t share these particular compulsions.
Daydreamer
SAILOR
If the plywood isn't delaminating you could epoxy new veneer.
I don't know this company. Just something I found.
https://www.oakwoodveneer.com/teak-and-holly-veneer.html
I don't know this company. Just something I found.
https://www.oakwoodveneer.com/teak-and-holly-veneer.html
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
Thanks Greg. That's a good option that would keep the existing look. Any idea how you remove the old veneer? It appears to be well-bonded to the plywood.
45 years ago, between the "5" and "10" soundings just E of Tinsley Island on Philpott's chart, a bunch of us were taught team and match racing by John Bertrand, Steve Jeppesen and the St. Francis YC training staff.
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45 years ago, between the "5" and "10" soundings just E of Tinsley Island on Philpott's chart, a bunch of us were taught team and match racing by John Bertrand, Steve Jeppesen and the St. Francis YC training staff.
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tiger beetle
N/M 45 Tiger Beetle
The ticket for veneer removal is a belt sander, and as you're working on a flat surface you want to support the belt sander in a base that keeps the belt level to the surface you're sanding. I have a Bosch belt sander and frame, and it's wonderful for smoothing out bumps in large flatt-ish surfaces (such as boat decks, it's also sanded boards on a home deck):
https://shop.bosch-professional.com/gb/en/accessory/sanding-frames--2608059
- rob
Daydreamer
SAILOR
I would go the planer, sander route, the old veneer is probably only 1/32 thick.
If it's not delaminating you could sand off the finish and glue on the new veneer and finish.
Of course to save weight it should be completely removed!
If it's not delaminating you could sand off the finish and glue on the new veneer and finish.
Of course to save weight it should be completely removed!
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
That's interesting stuff - two thick layers and two thin layers. What's the coring material?
Lonseal's sales manager and technical staff have accepted my amateur-installer status (or they have nothing better to do) and are being very helpful. They are presenting some alternatives that, while more labor-intensive, would make the finished job look more like the real thing.
As I mentioned to Dazzler this morning, a big consideration is not ever having to do this again. We refinished Ragtime!'s cabin sole three times over the years but it was a much smaller area. I had Surprise!'s main cabin sole out again yesterday (chasing wiring) and it's a LOT of wood.
It looks like I'll have to pull up the two halves of the sole in the forward cabin, which are glued down. There is only a thin gap around the edges and down the middle between the two panels. Because of the glue I'm going to have to pull up with considerable force, and may delam the plywood a bit where it's glued. Question: Is there a thin tool that can be inserted in the gaps and then turned(?) underneath, so I have a way to pull up on the plywood panels?
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Lonseal's sales manager and technical staff have accepted my amateur-installer status (or they have nothing better to do) and are being very helpful. They are presenting some alternatives that, while more labor-intensive, would make the finished job look more like the real thing.
As I mentioned to Dazzler this morning, a big consideration is not ever having to do this again. We refinished Ragtime!'s cabin sole three times over the years but it was a much smaller area. I had Surprise!'s main cabin sole out again yesterday (chasing wiring) and it's a LOT of wood.
It looks like I'll have to pull up the two halves of the sole in the forward cabin, which are glued down. There is only a thin gap around the edges and down the middle between the two panels. Because of the glue I'm going to have to pull up with considerable force, and may delam the plywood a bit where it's glued. Question: Is there a thin tool that can be inserted in the gaps and then turned(?) underneath, so I have a way to pull up on the plywood panels?
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Here's a 45 degree forensic cut. I never paid any attention to cores before. The core material seems to be marine plywood with no voids. The thick cores would add up to 1/2 thickness while the additional cores bring thickness to 3/4 inch. The screw hole is from fastener that held edge trim while epoxy setup.
As for removal Of existing panels, I would consider making some crude lifting handles and fasten with drywall screws. If a new laminate is used, the holes will be covered and can be epoxy sealed. Russell Brown uses holes and nails frequently to hold plywood sheets when gluing scarf joints with precise alignment.
Ants
As for removal Of existing panels, I would consider making some crude lifting handles and fasten with drywall screws. If a new laminate is used, the holes will be covered and can be epoxy sealed. Russell Brown uses holes and nails frequently to hold plywood sheets when gluing scarf joints with precise alignment.
Ants
BobJ
Alerion 38 "Surprise!"
It's vinyl. Among the samples I received, I chose the Top Seal version:
https://ameriteakstore.com/collections/marine-vinyl-flooring-products/products/lonseal-teak-and-holly
https://ameriteakstore.com/collections/marine-vinyl-flooring-products/products/lonseal-teak-and-holly