-
Ahoy and Welcome to the New SSS Forum!!
As you can see, we have migrated our old forums to new software. All your old posts, threads, attachments, and messages should be here. If you see anything out of place or have any questions, please click
You should be able to login with your old credentials. If you have any issues, try resetting your password before clicking the Contact Us link.
Cheers - SSS Technical Infrastructure
New Boat 4 Sled
- Thread starter sleddog
- Start date
Seriously! Makes you wonder about the other turning block and even the stanchion? I don't see any evidence of fasteners? Was it welded? Glued? It looks like the edges follow a cut-out section - and look like the "oval" lines around the other turning block. Has the deck been "overlaid as some time? The insulation might make it difficult, but I'd have a look at all the other "deck mounted" fittings under load to see if something's happening.
The boat was originally built by Derecktor, a very reputable yard for aluminum construction. The white spacers don't look original to me, and likely helped lever the block in a bad way. Yes, that makes all the other deck gear suspect!
The deck may have been overlaid after the build. That looks like faux teak..
Looks like a large poptop off a beer can. Same principle, I believe. So ya fill the space with 5200, and rent an elephant for the afternoon to stand on the offending piece, and you are good to go for another 20 years.
I think I mentioned a while back we had a dissimilar aluminum accident when the main accidentally jibed due to autopilot DUI during the Pac Cup. It was aboard a 60 foot Wylie aluminum cutter, and when the boom came across, breaking the preventer "fuse," the mainsheet caught the binnacle, roll bar, and wheel, bending them forward and flat to the cockpit floor.
For a minute Tom and I were stunned. Nothing for it but to lead a spinnaker sheet to the prone steering gear, thence aft to a block on the backstay tang, and to the electric cockpit winch. Gently, we pressed the button, and slowly raised the equipment back vertical. 10 minutes later we were back sailing.
Couldn't have done that with fiberglass.
Last edited:
Dazzler
m/v PACIFIC LOON
This is all speculation... As usual, there are probably multiple factors combined that caused the failure. But in summary I'd say trapped water under the teak overlay led to corrosion of the aluminum deck at the welds. Failure resulted from dynamic over-loading of the turning block.
I think that is real teak. If you look at the second photo, you can see where it had been recently cleaned. And you can see some splintering. 20 year old boat? Undoubtedly, the teak overlay had been redone at some point and it looks to have been glued down. The failure parallel to the toerail appears to be along a weld seam. There was probably moisture trapped along the toerail with no way to get out. Pretty interesting.
It's really interesting to think about how sail "fabrics" and line materials have developed since this boat was built 20 years ago. Both have become stronger and now have much less stretch to absorb dynamic loads. Engineers think in terms of static loading and dynamic loading. When a boat launches off a wave the dynamic loads may be 2-3 times greater than the static loads. Back in the late 60's a few boats experimented with wire sheets with Dacron tails to reduce stretch. Funny thing happened with some of those early experiments: winches and turning blocks got pulled loose.
So as you add those high-tech low-stretch lines and carbon sails to your good old boat, think about the weak links.
I think that is real teak. If you look at the second photo, you can see where it had been recently cleaned. And you can see some splintering. 20 year old boat? Undoubtedly, the teak overlay had been redone at some point and it looks to have been glued down. The failure parallel to the toerail appears to be along a weld seam. There was probably moisture trapped along the toerail with no way to get out. Pretty interesting.
It's really interesting to think about how sail "fabrics" and line materials have developed since this boat was built 20 years ago. Both have become stronger and now have much less stretch to absorb dynamic loads. Engineers think in terms of static loading and dynamic loading. When a boat launches off a wave the dynamic loads may be 2-3 times greater than the static loads. Back in the late 60's a few boats experimented with wire sheets with Dacron tails to reduce stretch. Funny thing happened with some of those early experiments: winches and turning blocks got pulled loose.
So as you add those high-tech low-stretch lines and carbon sails to your good old boat, think about the weak links.
Last edited:
About the peeled up deck...
I can see the damage to the aluminum, and the teak. I have always beed terrified by the slingshot potential of turning blocks, and the lack of through bolts.
BUT, what I really am impressed with and would like to know is, what kind of glue was used, when installing the turning blocks to the teak?
I can see the damage to the aluminum, and the teak. I have always beed terrified by the slingshot potential of turning blocks, and the lack of through bolts.
BUT, what I really am impressed with and would like to know is, what kind of glue was used, when installing the turning blocks to the teak?
Last edited:
islandplanet
New member
Yes it was Peter Myrner who owned the boat back then. The gentleman I bought the boat from acquired it in 2003 and was a very good friend of Peter.
Thanks, Skip, for posting the story about the Rendevous Islands. We passed them in 2007 on our way to Haida Gwaii. I'm sure I noticed them on the chart but did not pay particular attention. My brother and I will be passing that way again this June on our way to the Broughtons. I will be sure to look for them this time and pass along your story to my brother.
Sleddog_sis
Sailor & former racer
View attachment 2217 Bill Ficker. Great guy, wonderful sailor, true gentleman.[/FONT][/QUOTE]
Skip, I love that photo of the two of you! I remember Bill's measured, friendly voice, and encouragement of little kids starting in sailing and racing. He was respected by all at NHYC and beyond.
--Your little sis.
Skip, I love that photo of the two of you! I remember Bill's measured, friendly voice, and encouragement of little kids starting in sailing and racing. He was respected by all at NHYC and beyond.
--Your little sis.
Last edited:
St. Helena, a isolated island marooned in the middle of the South Atlantic, is on the milk run for many cruisers sailing from Cape Town, South Africa to the Caribbean. Recently, singlehander Webb Chiles briefly stopped at St. Helena aboard his Moore-24 GANNET. https://my.yb.tl/gannet
The only way to reach St. Helena, other than by yacht, is the bi-monthly aging mail ferry St. HELENA from Cape Town. That was about to change, and St. HELENA's visits canceled, with the opening of the much heralded and anticipated St. Helena International Airport.
Before the anticipated revelry, heavy equipment had to be landed on the nearly inaccessible coast. Then 530,000 truckloads of earth removed from a nearby mountain top to fill in the Dry Gut Gorge and raise its elevation 300 feet. This construction unfortunately had major impact on the nesting sites and habitat of the critically endangered Wire Bird (St. Helena plover), the national bird of St. Helena.
Britain funded $490 million for the expertise and completion of long delayed construction, and the initial commercial flight was set for last April.
A royal reception was planned, the crowd assembled, the band played, and the plane circled but couldn't land. Everyone went home, reportedly disappointed. It seemed no one in the design stage for the new airport had anticipated the extreme windshear that could make commercial landings unfeasible. No one but Charles Darwin, who had observed and written about the windshear phenomena in 1836 on the visit of the BEAGLE.
Whether the St. Helena airport and incoming flights carrying the Golden Egg of tourism can be salvaged is uncertain.
Apparently there may be a certain type of 4 engine STOL jet with hardy brakes and flown by experienced high wind pilots from the rugged Faroe Islands of the North Atlantic who have the experience to land downwind at St. Helena that may save the day. The welcoming band may play yet.
Meanwhile, I suspect Napoleon, exiled to St. Helena after his crushing defeat at Waterloo and who died on-island, is likely rolling in his grave wishing for another chance at the incompetent Brits.
The only way to reach St. Helena, other than by yacht, is the bi-monthly aging mail ferry St. HELENA from Cape Town. That was about to change, and St. HELENA's visits canceled, with the opening of the much heralded and anticipated St. Helena International Airport.
Before the anticipated revelry, heavy equipment had to be landed on the nearly inaccessible coast. Then 530,000 truckloads of earth removed from a nearby mountain top to fill in the Dry Gut Gorge and raise its elevation 300 feet. This construction unfortunately had major impact on the nesting sites and habitat of the critically endangered Wire Bird (St. Helena plover), the national bird of St. Helena.
Britain funded $490 million for the expertise and completion of long delayed construction, and the initial commercial flight was set for last April.
A royal reception was planned, the crowd assembled, the band played, and the plane circled but couldn't land. Everyone went home, reportedly disappointed. It seemed no one in the design stage for the new airport had anticipated the extreme windshear that could make commercial landings unfeasible. No one but Charles Darwin, who had observed and written about the windshear phenomena in 1836 on the visit of the BEAGLE.
Whether the St. Helena airport and incoming flights carrying the Golden Egg of tourism can be salvaged is uncertain.
Apparently there may be a certain type of 4 engine STOL jet with hardy brakes and flown by experienced high wind pilots from the rugged Faroe Islands of the North Atlantic who have the experience to land downwind at St. Helena that may save the day. The welcoming band may play yet.
Meanwhile, I suspect Napoleon, exiled to St. Helena after his crushing defeat at Waterloo and who died on-island, is likely rolling in his grave wishing for another chance at the incompetent Brits.
Last edited:
Up the rig, under the boat, in the engine room, it's easy for things “out of sight, out of mind” to have a life of their own. Spring cleaning is upon us and I was reminded again of taking things for granted when, with a loud “whoosh,” my West Marine “Inshore” Automatic Inflating PFD (lifejacket) burst open and vigorously inflated.
I'm used to PFD's unintentionally inflating for the simple reason a wave broke over the boat, soaking the wearer, and melting the aspirin “trigger.” But this premature inflation was different. It was sunny and I was a 1/4 mile from the nearest water, with the PFD lying on deck. What happened?
While attempting to deflate, then rearm the misbehaving PFD, I had ample opportunity to explore the workings of the PFD and its automatic trigger device. Initially, what I found simultaneously deflated my wallet and confidence. I noticed the fabric and bladder of the PFD was made in China, the C02 cartridge made in Austria, the aspirin trigger made in Germany, and the small yellow bobbin made in the USA.
I visited West Marine and bought a rearm kit for my auto-inflate PFD. First thing I noticed was the replacement CO2 cartridge was made in Japan and despite have the same number, “24 grams”, as the original Austrian one, the new cartridge was physically larger and heavier (112.5 vs. 107 grams.) No where could I find if this mattered...(it doesn't, see below).
Photo above: The new, larger, 24 gram CO2 cylinder (Japan); the old smaller 24 gram cylinder (Austria); and a faulty bobbin (Note the date of manufacture is printed on the side and good for 3 years.)
I installed the new aspirin bobbin and CO2 cartridge as per instructions. “Whoosh,” again premature inflation. This was confusing until I noticed the rearm package was labeled for a “Manual” PFD. My WM Inshore PFD had large letters on its exterior: “MANUAL/AUTOMATIC”. The WM sales associate had assured me it was the correct rearm kit I was buying.
I again visited WM and returned the now used rearm kit for exchange and replaced it with the proper “AUTOMATIC PFD” rearm kit which I should have bought the first time. Returning home, I again rearmed the PFD. Again, “Whoosh!” Again I experienced the CO2 cartridge triggering as I screwed in the CO2cylinder. ???
I examined the inner workings of the Halkey/Roberts inflator and triggering device with a flashlite. What I saw was the piercing pin for the C02 cartridge not withdrawing flush into its cap upon rearmament. It was a mystery why this was so. I finally settled on the reason being a faulty bobbin....
I returned to West Marine for a third time, and left with yet another rearm kit (one bobbin comes in each rearm kit, as well as a CO2 cartridge).
This time success.... But why did the PFD prematurely inflate the first time when dry? I could only surmise that during the winter, I'd placed the PFD into a plastic bag for safekeeping. In the sunlight, the air remaining in the plastic bag condensed, causing moisture, which set off melting the Halkey Roberts aspirin triggering mechanism.
Takeaways from the exercise:
1) If you own an Auto Inflate PFD, it is mandatory to replace the water-activated bobbin every three years from the date stamped on the bobbin, even if the CO2 cartridge is good. This replacement entails unscrewing the clear plastic inflator and inserting a new bobbin. Takes about a minute.
You can't just buy one individual bobbin. Bobbins come in a 3 pack. To buy one bobbin, you have to buy the full rearm kit containing a CO2 cylinder, even if yours is unused.
2) According to Chuck Hawley, with whom I spoke and who knows these things, the size of the CO2 cylinder doesn't matter, only the capacity of CO2, which in my case was 24 grams and matched the expended 24 gram cylinder.
3) Especially during winter, or anytime, storing an auto inflatable PFD in a potentially damp environment like a plastic bag or bunk locker is asking for trouble. The aspirin in the trigger will degrade over time.
4) All this is moot if you own the more expensive MUSTANG auto-inflate PFD with the hydro static inflator (HIT) that doesn't use an aspirin/bobbin combo, but different technology that doesn't trigger until the inflator is 4” underwater.
I'm used to PFD's unintentionally inflating for the simple reason a wave broke over the boat, soaking the wearer, and melting the aspirin “trigger.” But this premature inflation was different. It was sunny and I was a 1/4 mile from the nearest water, with the PFD lying on deck. What happened?
While attempting to deflate, then rearm the misbehaving PFD, I had ample opportunity to explore the workings of the PFD and its automatic trigger device. Initially, what I found simultaneously deflated my wallet and confidence. I noticed the fabric and bladder of the PFD was made in China, the C02 cartridge made in Austria, the aspirin trigger made in Germany, and the small yellow bobbin made in the USA.
I visited West Marine and bought a rearm kit for my auto-inflate PFD. First thing I noticed was the replacement CO2 cartridge was made in Japan and despite have the same number, “24 grams”, as the original Austrian one, the new cartridge was physically larger and heavier (112.5 vs. 107 grams.) No where could I find if this mattered...(it doesn't, see below).
Photo above: The new, larger, 24 gram CO2 cylinder (Japan); the old smaller 24 gram cylinder (Austria); and a faulty bobbin (Note the date of manufacture is printed on the side and good for 3 years.)I installed the new aspirin bobbin and CO2 cartridge as per instructions. “Whoosh,” again premature inflation. This was confusing until I noticed the rearm package was labeled for a “Manual” PFD. My WM Inshore PFD had large letters on its exterior: “MANUAL/AUTOMATIC”. The WM sales associate had assured me it was the correct rearm kit I was buying.
I again visited WM and returned the now used rearm kit for exchange and replaced it with the proper “AUTOMATIC PFD” rearm kit which I should have bought the first time. Returning home, I again rearmed the PFD. Again, “Whoosh!” Again I experienced the CO2 cartridge triggering as I screwed in the CO2cylinder. ???
I examined the inner workings of the Halkey/Roberts inflator and triggering device with a flashlite. What I saw was the piercing pin for the C02 cartridge not withdrawing flush into its cap upon rearmament. It was a mystery why this was so. I finally settled on the reason being a faulty bobbin....
I returned to West Marine for a third time, and left with yet another rearm kit (one bobbin comes in each rearm kit, as well as a CO2 cartridge).
This time success.... But why did the PFD prematurely inflate the first time when dry? I could only surmise that during the winter, I'd placed the PFD into a plastic bag for safekeeping. In the sunlight, the air remaining in the plastic bag condensed, causing moisture, which set off melting the Halkey Roberts aspirin triggering mechanism.
Takeaways from the exercise:
1) If you own an Auto Inflate PFD, it is mandatory to replace the water-activated bobbin every three years from the date stamped on the bobbin, even if the CO2 cartridge is good. This replacement entails unscrewing the clear plastic inflator and inserting a new bobbin. Takes about a minute.
You can't just buy one individual bobbin. Bobbins come in a 3 pack. To buy one bobbin, you have to buy the full rearm kit containing a CO2 cylinder, even if yours is unused.
2) According to Chuck Hawley, with whom I spoke and who knows these things, the size of the CO2 cylinder doesn't matter, only the capacity of CO2, which in my case was 24 grams and matched the expended 24 gram cylinder.
3) Especially during winter, or anytime, storing an auto inflatable PFD in a potentially damp environment like a plastic bag or bunk locker is asking for trouble. The aspirin in the trigger will degrade over time.
4) All this is moot if you own the more expensive MUSTANG auto-inflate PFD with the hydro static inflator (HIT) that doesn't use an aspirin/bobbin combo, but different technology that doesn't trigger until the inflator is 4” underwater.
Last edited:
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Uh oh. Technical skills required. This is never easy.
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Threads? There are threads? Does it require reading a handbook like when I bought an IBM computer in 1989 and it required reading the 400 page "Understanding DOS" handbook? This is making me feel so stressed. Gotta go sailing to relieve that stress.
Hi Jackie,
Do you wear a manual inflation PFD? If so, you are good to go as is.
Auto-inflation? Then unless you know the date on the yellow bobbin, it is good practice to check...no more difficult than unscrewing the lid on a jar of Englehoffers.
Simply expose the clear cup on the bottom of the inflator, unscrew, and drop the yellow bobbin out. Check the date on the side of the yellow bobbin. If more than 3 years, time to replace. ( I've got 2 extra new bobbins I'm willing to give away)
Then replace the plastic cup tight with the white side of the bobbin upward, and you are good to go! No need to replace the CO2 cylinder unless its been triggered.
Easy Peasy, no stress. Here's our friend Chuck Hawley giving a demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCkA14AgkEw
Philpott
Cal 2-27 Dura Mater
Ran right down to the marina and sailed DM in surprisingly windy conditions. While we were out there I thought to look down to find, amazingly, that I purchased the "more expensive MUSTANG auto-inflate PFD". Who would have expected DM to have such a luxury item aboard? So it is all, as you write, a moot point. And a good thing, too, because now I can worry about other things, like cleaning the bottom of the boat so the fish finder doesn't "chirp!" instead of reading properly. Always something. BTW, what did I learn about my fish finder/depth sounder? It reads up to 200 ft depth, but when we are offshore and it becomes deeper, it chirps, too. I say to it, "that is just a silly sound" and it stops.
Attachments
Last edited:
The fish finder chirps? Maybe you are sailing over a school of fish and it's time to break out the rod and reel? Fish and chips are good this time of year.
Never a dull moment on DM? Why would a dirty bottom make the fish finder chirp? And it has voice control activiation? You are amazing..
hodgmo
Still Floating
The fish finder chirps? Maybe you are sailing over a school of fish and it's time to break out the rod and reel? Fish and chips are good this time of year.
Never a dull moment on DM? Why would a dirty bottom make the fish finder chirp? And it has voice control activiation? You are amazing..
She writes books too.
Whee, the National Weather Service has issued a Special Marine Warning for waters offshore Santa Cruz: You don't see "waterspout" and "stay below deck" usually mentioned in our local weather.
Secure the cat and chickens.
AT 621 AM PDT...DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A STRONG THUNDERSTORM...
CAPABLE OF PRODUCING WINDS 34 KNOTS OR GREATER AND SMALL HAIL...
LOCATED 82 NM NORTHWEST OF POINT PIEDRAS BLANCAS...MOVING NORTHEAST
AT 25 KNOTS. THE STRONG THUNDERSTORM WILL REMAIN OVER MAINLY OPEN WATERS.
PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...
FREQUENT LIGHTNING IS OCCURRING WITH THIS STORM. IF CAUGHT ON THE
OPEN WATER STAY BELOW DECK IF POSSIBLE...KEEP AWAY FROM UNGROUNDED
METAL OBJECTS.
WATERSPOUT...
WIND... >34KTS
HAIL... <.75IN
Secure the cat and chickens.AT 621 AM PDT...DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A STRONG THUNDERSTORM...
CAPABLE OF PRODUCING WINDS 34 KNOTS OR GREATER AND SMALL HAIL...
LOCATED 82 NM NORTHWEST OF POINT PIEDRAS BLANCAS...MOVING NORTHEAST
AT 25 KNOTS. THE STRONG THUNDERSTORM WILL REMAIN OVER MAINLY OPEN WATERS.
PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...
FREQUENT LIGHTNING IS OCCURRING WITH THIS STORM. IF CAUGHT ON THE
OPEN WATER STAY BELOW DECK IF POSSIBLE...KEEP AWAY FROM UNGROUNDED
METAL OBJECTS.
WATERSPOUT...
WIND... >34KTS
HAIL... <.75IN